189 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

It's not the MG's or even all the mg's

The issue or for some, or non issue for others is the boated, oh there's that word again boated, Light MG's with big range skill buffs combined with ECM and multiple air/arty strikes, because it's not the damage they do it's the crit multipliers.

My favourite is the Arctic Cheetah two erml, 6 L/ MG's air strikes.

Best target of all, Annihilator with Heavy Gauss, get behind it, launch arty strike remove remaining back armour with ERML's if needed, 3-5 second burst with the L/MG's at 400 meters the other guy has no weapons left and doesn't even know what made him 100 tonnes of armour and no fire power.

The Light Machine Guns break the game because of the boated crit mulitpliers, they can do while undetected.

put them on a mech without ECM it's not an issue

Edited by Cathy, 04 September 2017 - 07:04 AM.

[An Innocent Urbie]

Cathy, on 04 September 2017 - 07:01 AM, said:

It's not the MG's or even all the mg's

The issue or for some, or non issue for others is the boated, oh there's that word again boated, Light MG's with big range skill buffs combined with ECM and multiple air/arty strikes, because it's not the damage they do it's the crit multipliers.

My favourite is the Arctic Cheetah two erml, 6 L/ MG's air strikes.

Best target of all, Annihilator with Heavy Gauss, get behind it, launch arty strike remove remaining back armour with ERML's if needed, 3-5 second burst with the L/MG's at 400 meters the other guy has no weapons left and doesn't even know what made him 100 tonnes of armour and no fire power.

The Light Machine Guns break the game because of the boated crit mulitpliers, they can do while undetected.

put them on a mech without ECM it's not an issue

my Mist Lynx MLX-G don't have an ECM and yes ECM is not an issue

[Trissila]

For reference on the "OMG MG IZ OP" front: yesterday I was behind the enemy line in my Arctic Cheetah (cSPL build), looking for targets, and two MG boat Myst Lynxes came at me.

It took them something like a minute to kill me.

Hardly OP.

[Bishop Steiner]

DjPush, on 04 September 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

HA! Streak SRMs eat the **** out of those mechs. Honestly! Why do people spend so much time whining about things instead of learning to counter them.

Don't worry the MG Mafia will probably get back to whining "Streaks OP" as soon as a couple more people figure it out again. I hope this MG Mania is still going when my Arctic Wolf arrives... I want's the free lunch!

[Weeny Machine]

ShaneoftheDead, on 03 September 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

Machine Guns are everywhere. MG boat Mechs are owning close range, or so it would seem.

Is this good for the game? Is this what we, the players, want?

And lasers aren't?

[Asym]

I wasn't around when the other boated weapons were the rage....

What I do and have seen is a shift in gameplay; from traditional roles and teams to individuals doing only what they want.....

Right after the May (?) skill tree everything seem to start to evolve towards individuals. Our team kinda of started fragmenting. Gameplay went from some cooperation to out right "who cares"....
Lights stopped going to the circle in Domination because it is a sure death because the heavies and assualts are NOT gonna go there!
Incurrsion, became a shirmish and only a skirmish. If you collected fuel, you were chastized and constantly critized.
In Assault, we took the base once without firing a shot and many on the other team disconnected BEFORE THE MATCH ENDED beacuse the weren't able to brawl.....
Conquest matches where there are virtually no one capping. In fact, the last conquest match all of the players were literally screaming that "let's kill everyone and then cap." They did and we lost 705 to 750 and then those same players verbally abuse the light pilots for "letting them down".

Traditional roles have faded into memory.... I was in my anti-light Viper patrolling behind the FLOT to protect the Assaults and I can't tell you the crap I had to put up with. The "you're a coward being back there chasing squirrels, etc...." We won't talk about recon because that has become an after thought as is spotting for IDF....

No, MG's aren't the problem......nor, any other boated weapons system. They are the symptom of the root cause of MWO's gameplay issues....

Edited by Asym, 04 September 2017 - 07:47 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

An Innocent Urbie, on 04 September 2017 - 07:07 AM, said:

my Mist Lynx MLX-G don't have an ECM and yes ECM is not an issue

I would say it is the issue that's causing the op screams about mg's I also think it's not all MG's just light ones, because you can crit seek outside detection range, with Light MG's.

Of course, the end result will be all MG's will get nerfed, and the ones that will feel it most will be the lights that can't boat 6 or 8 and have no ECM option

Edited by Cathy, 04 September 2017 - 07:54 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Get used to the idea of MG crits getting nerfed.

[Mcgral18]

Ghogiel, on 04 September 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

Get used to the idea of MG crits getting nerfed.

Without MG damage being buffed

Crit damage doubles their damage, which makes them a requirement for relevance without other changes.
RIP another weapon system

Hurray Laser vomit

Edited by Mcgral18, 04 September 2017 - 08:02 AM.

[GrimRiver]

Funny how nobody was whining about the Arrow or SHC with their 6MG's, but 8 MG's somehow crossed an invisible line.

MLX a little light mech, the slowest of it's weight class with paper thin arm armor of 16 which an alpha from any mech can blow off.

Are the MG's really op, I mean are they REALLY? Think about it, the MG's need some other weapons working with them to make them effective like lasers, AC's or missiles.

If a weapon system needs help from other weapons then it isn't op, try running MG's only without lasers, AC's or missile and tell us how well that goes. Better yet, record video and show the proof.

[Mole]

DjPush, on 04 September 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

HA! Streak SRMs eat the **** out of those mechs. Honestly! Why do people spend so much time whining about things instead of learning to counter them.

Lily from animove, on 04 September 2017 - 06:27 AM, said:

So 8 mechs weren't able to kill a light? How much dps has such a light and how long does it need to kill 8 mechs. Potatoe awareness is what kilsl people and there are unfortunately a lot of potatoes out there.

So when peopel would stop derping and get some srm bombing action your MG's plopp faster than you can scream OP srm's

But until peole finally adopt, lets just call MGs OP.

You guys are acting like I called the Mist Lynx or MGs OP. I was merely stating my shock that that 8 MG Mist Lynx was such a good 'mech when I tried it out myself. And then I predicted that since it is so shocking that PGI is going to have one of their classic knee-jerk reactions and nerf it to death.

[Ghogiel]

Mcgral18, on 04 September 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

Without MG damage being buffed

Crit damage doubles their damage, which makes them a requirement for relevance without other changes.
RIP another weapon system

Hurray Laser vomit

pretty much instantly losing anything in a component that gets openned from 100s of M out is assuredly going to look broke in PGIs metrics, nothing anyone can say to justify that or stop PGI seeing the numbers and "fixing" them. We are just along for the ride here. I mean they nerfed gauss critting things for no reason and it was a non issue, when they see me use a zero downside weap even 20toners could boat, and drag lmgs across a mech and crit out 4 UAC5s in less than a sec enough times they'll nerf the LMG critting problem.

[InspectorG]

ShaneoftheDead, on 03 September 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

Machine Guns are everywhere. MG boat Mechs are owning close range, or so it would seem.

Is this good for the game? Is this what we, the players, want?

So far, yes.

What other ballistics are light mechs gonna use? C-SPL was nerfed into oblivion. SRMs are decent but some lights dont have the tonnage to use them well.

Also, give it 3 months and see if MGs are still all the rage. I think a lot of this back lash is Pugs dont know how to deal with lights because of how unpopular they are.

[Shard Phoenix]

I, too, have no problem with weapons that only start to become dangerous late game, when... lots of things become more dangerous.

[InspectorG]

Cathy, on 04 September 2017 - 07:01 AM, said:

The Light Machine Guns break the game because of the boated crit mulitpliers, they can do while undetected.

put them on a mech without ECM it's not an issue

If a pilot is too dumb to look at their paperdoll and see where that damage comes from and dont recognize its a MG from the sound....

I dont think nerfing MGs or boating is gonna help that pilot.

MGs are a facetank weapon after all.

ECM is a shadow of its former self.

[Ghogiel]

InspectorG, on 04 September 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

If a pilot is too dumb to look at their paperdoll and see where that damage comes from and dont recognize its a MG from the sound....

I dont think nerfing MGs or boating is gonna help that pilot.

MGs are a facetank weapon after all.

ECM is a shadow of its former self.

The paper doll doesn't updte for like a sec or so, then you need at a minimum of 0.3secs to realise and then do something. By then it is too late, you would be ****** anyway because if you were using or relying on the paperdoll for any of that you kinda doing it wrong. you have to see it before it starts shooting, you cannot in any way really react to a non potato and get out without losing your at least some of your **** if not cherried or dead.

You are right in that no one is using ECM though, it doesn't do much to help really because the attack range is 300m optimal anyway so you don't even need it unlike how it was useful when it was good + pubbing smpl light mechs.

Edited by Ghogiel, 04 September 2017 - 08:56 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

GrimRiver, on 04 September 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

Funny how nobody was whining about the Arrow or SHC with their 6MG's, but 8 MG's somehow crossed an invisible line.

MLX a little light mech, the slowest of it's weight class with paper thin arm armor of 16 which an alpha from any mech can blow off.

Are the MG's really op, I mean are they REALLY? Think about it, the MG's need some other weapons working with them to make them effective like lasers, AC's or missiles.

If a weapon system needs help from other weapons then it isn't op, try running MG's only without lasers, AC's or missile and tell us how well that goes. Better yet, record video and show the proof.

The arrow isn't an ECM mech and until the new skill tree and Light MG's had a limited range, and was annoying more than deadly.

Small hard to see mech in an ecm bubble with a pair of arty strikes, boating L/MG's and now thanks to the tree and the extra range of light MG's means it can crit out a mech at close to 500 meters.

How many people bother with Heavy or standard MG's anymore, they're just not worth it, when you can do so much with the light Machine gun.

The fact that it's the only MG worth taking means it will at some point get nerfed, it's just will P.G.I stuff the other two bringing the light into line.

Now good team play, watching each other backs, negates a lot of this, but Q.P solo there's none of that and it's Q.P that brings in the money.

Shrugs, had my say now, not going to belabour the point any further, but as usual it's not 'the weapon' but a group of conditions all adding up.

P.G.I will listen to the yea's and the nay's and act or not.

I can understand people not wanting it nerfed because P.G.I have a history of using the brick hammer and not the scalpel, when adjusting things.

But I think the Light MG does need it's crits tuned down a little.

Anyway that's me done with the subject, until the next 'balance' pass

[InspectorG]

Ghogiel, on 04 September 2017 - 08:56 AM, said:

... you cannot in any way really react to a non potato and get out without losing your at least some of your **** if not cherried or dead.

True, but how many non-potates are running Light MG boats these days? I see little intelligent poking, harassing and more death circle or face tank.

Maybe im blessed with my paperdoll and 50 ping? My damage ready quickly.

If im in an Assault and am getting plinked by a MG boat, either i got out of position, or its late and the lights are circling.

A simple glance at the min map usually tells the story. It happens, but its rare that a talented Light pilot harasses me in a decent manner. I start to feel unwanted....

[Ghogiel]

Cathy, on 04 September 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

Now good team play, watching each other backs, negates a lot of this, but Q.P solo there's none of that and it's Q.P that brings in the money.

In many ways it's actually much stronger in team play than it is in pugs.
I think you will find LMGs will be a very common build in comp.It's basically everything the SDR was in comp but quadruple the range, like double the hitting power, plus the instant ggnore on any open component all tied up in a CXL package XD. And PGI wasn't even happy with SDR back then so that got **** on too. so... yeah I think it's time to get used to the idea they going to nerf it blowing out all equipment in a component in half a sec.

[Curccu]

DjPush, on 04 September 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

HA! Streak SRMs eat the **** out of those mechs. Honestly! Why do people spend so much time whining about things instead of learning to counter them.

Yeah its hilarious to watch some streak crow/dog trying to take down annihilator or any assault mech in the game