41 replies to this topic

[SuperFunkTron]

Is there a reason why the Warhawk C can handle boating 4 erPPCs better than a Warhawk Prime? The difference is 9% in heat reduction coming at the cost of 7.5%velocity, so I see the trade off, but can someone explain to me what the reasoning for making the best known erPPC boat less efficient than other variants is?

[FupDup]

From a lore standpoint the Whalehawk C was more heat efficient because of swapping 2 ERPPCs for 2 LPLs, and mounting 3 additional DHS in place of the useless LRM10 launcher.

PGI probably did it based on the usual Dartboard ritual. It'll get nerfed eventually, that's for sure.

[SuperFunkTron]

FupDup, on 09 September 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

From a lore standpoint the Whalehawk C was more heat efficient because of swapping 2 ERPPCs for 2 LPLs, and mounting 3 additional DHS in place of the useless LRM10 launcher.

PGI probably did it based on the usual Dartboard ritual. It'll get nerfed eventually, that's for sure.

The extra heat sinks makes sense, but I figured it's better heat management was the simple math of the pulse lasers being cooler plus the extra heat sinks.

I still can't believe it took me this long to compare quirks on the Warhawks and just now discovered that the laser heat management of the C is really so much better.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Well the prime also has some extra CT structure, but still C is probably better if you want to have 4 PPCs.

Anyone compared Warhawk to Marauder IIC, the literal variant?

[Trenchbird]

Quad PPCs? If I recall correctly, the Warhawk can get a few more shots off for continued fire before it shuts down. I've heard one extra alpha strike, but that's dubious info at best.

[Jun Watarase]

Most of the quirks make no sense. Thats why some mechs with the best hitboxes in the game get massive durability quirks while others with poor hitboxes get nothing.

[Kiiyor]

Kinda needs the quirks though, as the Clan Awesome is directly competing with the 'Sphere Awesome in the **** hitbox department. The 'Sphere Awesome "wins", but not by much.

[SuperFunkTron]

Teer Kerensky, on 09 September 2017 - 09:20 PM, said:

Well the prime also has some extra CT structure, but still C is probably better if you want to have 4 PPCs.

Anyone compared Warhawk to Marauder IIC, the literal variant?

That extra CT structure is because there is no weapon mount, but the Warhawk C gets extra RT structure as it doesn't have the mount for an AMS so that balances out. I was doing some extensive testing last night and determined that the C variant is noticeably more efficient with erPPC heat. I was able to keep up a steadier stream of fire courtesy of the approximately -10$ energy heat gen quirk the C variant gets.

In relation to the Marauder IIC, the Warhawk Prime is superior as a PPC boat in terms of heat management, but the Marauder IIC gives you a chance to customize the mech a bit more with back up weapons. The Warhawk Prime has -4% erPPC heat gen quirks and +20% velocity while the Warhawk C provies -13% energy heat gen and +12.5% velocity. With the skill tree adding up to an additional -10.5% heat gen, the Warhawk C comes in at just short of -25% heat gen on it's erPPCs, which is nothing to scoff at. As for the Marauder IIC, there are no quirks, but I found in the past that an XL385 (you'll be faster than the Warhawk) 3 erPPCs, 2 MPLs, and 4 erSL gives you very effective options if someone closes in on you when caught off guard or need to push in close with your team.

Kiiyor, on 10 September 2017 - 02:24 AM, said:

Kinda needs the quirks though, as the Clan Awesome is directly competing with the 'Sphere Awesome in the **** hitbox department. The 'Sphere Awesome "wins", but not by much.

There would be little to no reason to play a 4 erPPC Warhawk without quirks. Fortunately, those bonuses are offset slightly by the skill it takes to hit with erPPCs, but it seems like a fair trade for a mech that has such limited hard points and pod space.

Jun Watarase, on 09 September 2017 - 11:02 PM, said:

Most of the quirks make no sense. Thats why some mechs with the best hitboxes in the game get massive durability quirks while others with poor hitboxes get nothing.

I have to disagree, there are many cases in which the quirks do make sense. In this particular case, I'm just looking for the reasoning as to why the C runs the Prime build more effectively.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

SuperFunkTron, on 10 September 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

In relation to the Marauder IIC, the Warhawk Prime is superior as a PPC boat in terms of heat management, but the Marauder IIC gives you a chance to customize the mech a bit more with back up weapons.

I was thinking in particular the rather sweet hitboxes of Marauder IIC and it's ability due to being battlemech, to carry those PPCs along with lower arm actuators, for faster and more accurate aiming.

[Glaive-]

SSSHHH don't talk about the warhawk or PGI will notice and nerf it

[Jun Watarase]

SuperFunkTron, on 10 September 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

That extra CT structure is because there is no weapon mount, but the Warhawk C gets extra RT structure as it doesn't have the mount for an AMS so that balances out. I was doing some extensive testing last night and determined that the C variant is noticeably more efficient with erPPC heat. I was able to keep up a steadier stream of fire courtesy of the approximately -10$ energy heat gen quirk the C variant gets.

In relation to the Marauder IIC, the Warhawk Prime is superior as a PPC boat in terms of heat management, but the Marauder IIC gives you a chance to customize the mech a bit more with back up weapons. The Warhawk Prime has -4% erPPC heat gen quirks and +20% velocity while the Warhawk C provies -13% energy heat gen and +12.5% velocity. With the skill tree adding up to an additional -10.5% heat gen, the Warhawk C comes in at just short of -25% heat gen on it's erPPCs, which is nothing to scoff at. As for the Marauder IIC, there are no quirks, but I found in the past that an XL385 (you'll be faster than the Warhawk) 3 erPPCs, 2 MPLs, and 4 erSL gives you very effective options if someone closes in on you when caught off guard or need to push in close with your team.

There would be little to no reason to play a 4 erPPC Warhawk without quirks. Fortunately, those bonuses are offset slightly by the skill it takes to hit with erPPCs, but it seems like a fair trade for a mech that has such limited hard points and pod space.

I have to disagree, there are many cases in which the quirks do make sense. In this particular case, I'm just looking for the reasoning as to why the C runs the Prime build more effectively.

There is no reasoning other than PGI being bad at balancing. Its the same reason why some mechs with the best hitboxes in the game and high mounted torso hardpoints get uber armor quirks while mechs with bad hitboxes and low mounted hardpoints get nothing.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 12 September 2017 - 10:10 PM.

[Khobai]

im fine with the warhawk C getting nerfed

they still need to nerf clan gauss too because its 3 tons lighter than IS gauss for no good reason

[SuperFunkTron]

Khobai, on 10 September 2017 - 09:18 PM, said:

im fine with the warhawk C getting nerfed

they still need to nerf clan gauss too because its 3 tons lighter than IS gauss for no good reason

Why should these things be nerfed? You sound really bitter, like one of your favorite mechs got nerfed. Not a whole lot of substance to what you're saying, which is not constructive or conducive to discussion.

[Paigan]

SuperFunkTron, on 09 September 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

Is there a reason why the Warhawk C can handle boating 4 erPPCs better than a Warhawk Prime? The difference is 9% in heat reduction coming at the cost of 7.5%velocity, so I see the trade off, but can someone explain to me what the reasoning for making the best known erPPC boat less efficient than other variants is?

Shhhhh!
SSSHHH!!!!

*whisper* Goddammit . They'll notice and fix it!

I'd be fine with reducing the C's general energy heat quirks to laser heat quirks, though .

Edited by Paigan, 11 September 2017 - 12:20 AM.

[kesmai]

Wait, what?
Are we really at the point where you guys discussing a NERF on the warhawk c?
Oh, i see the problem. Thousands of them on the battlefield. Every. Single. Day.

Because of forum rules i can not express myself properly.

On that Chassis discussion:
I take the prime for ppc. Heat is not the problem and for the added up velocity i have no problem to lose 7.5% Heat eff.
I even add a tc4 for even MORE velocity.
I have the feeling some should call themselves quirkwarriors instead of mechwarriors.

Sincerely yours.
A quirked potato.

Edited by kesmai, 11 September 2017 - 12:29 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Why should these things be nerfed? You sound really bitter, like one of your favorite mechs got nerfed. Not a whole lot of substance to what you're saying, which is not constructive or conducive to discussion.

because they arnt balanced

[Paigan]

Khobai, on 11 September 2017 - 02:09 AM, said:

because they arnt balanced

Being balanced does NOT mean that all values of all factions have to be exactely the same. That would be the most boring thing ever and noone would play it.
Being balanced means that the entirety of values makes every faction equally good. See for example Starcraft I/II.

If you want to have perfectly equal values in a game where the factions are fundamentally designed to be asymmetrically balanced, you are in the wrong game.

The IS Gauss is one of very few weapons that are VERY close to their Clan counterparts. Equalizing them further would be against the basic design of the factions. The balance has to come from somewhere else to keep the asymmetrical nature of the factions interesting (e.g. by difference in number, combat values, combat rules, whatever, there's more than enough possibilities in the lore), not by hysterically equalizing values.

I would kindly ask you to understand that and stop spewing around the kind of short-sighted (and btw offtopic) spite you did in this thread.

Edited by Paigan, 11 September 2017 - 03:06 AM.

[SuperFunkTron]

kesmai, on 11 September 2017 - 12:28 AM, said:

Wait, what?
Are we really at the point where you guys discussing a NERF on the warhawk c?
Oh, i see the problem. Thousands of them on the battlefield. Every. Single. Day.

Because of forum rules i can not express myself properly.

On that Chassis discussion:
I take the prime for ppc. Heat is not the problem and for the added up velocity i have no problem to lose 7.5% Heat eff.
I even add a tc4 for even MORE velocity.
I have the feeling some should call themselves quirkwarriors instead of mechwarriors.

Sincerely yours.
A quirked potato.

I've got no idea where you got the impression that I am asking for it to be nerfed. I am advocating for the Warhawk Prime to get its erPPC heat gen to be at least as good as the C variant, if not, at least a slight edge. Even if its purely set of 8, I think the Warhawk prime should edge out every other variant, but just by buffing it slightly.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Because PGI can't balance gud

Warhawk gets uberquirks while uziel gets nothing meaningful

[Jackal Noble]

Well, it is the size of a building, and it only has 5 hardpoints, all of which are energy and in low slung locations so there is that.
It's arms alone are the width of a small mech, and has 80% of it's firepower there.

Odd quirks? whatabout the Battlemaster-G and the 20% range quirk (10 on medium and 10 general range) on ER-mediums whilst having 8 hardpoints.

Edited by JackalBeast, 12 September 2017 - 09:53 PM.