412 replies to this topic

[Trissila]

Mole, on 13 September 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

Seriously? Are you actually trying to tell me that having a 'mech already built for you and being unable to change it requires more thought that figuring out how to build one yourself? What are you smoking and can I have some?

Figuring out how to make lore loadouts work in real combat scenarios is considerably more challenging, tactically, than "just throw a bunch of lasers on it".

'Mech building in BT-based computer games has largely been 'solved' for decades. You spam a particular weapon system and play the 'mech to that system's strengths. LRM boats, Streak boats, AC boats, laser boats... these concepts have been in place since Mechwarrior 2 back in the mid-90s, and have only ever shifted to account for a particular game's numbers or other artificial tweaks -- we do "2 blues and 6 greens/yellows" builds here in MWO because of how Ghost Heat works, and we call them "laser vomit" because that's the cute meme name of this particular branch of the MW community, but it's still a Standard Issue Laser Boat, exactly the same as we were playing in '95.

[Ruar]

Sounds interesting. I'll wait for the reviews though because I just don't trust PGI.

The customization piece is both good and bad. Bad because we all like to build our mechs, good though because it's closer to Battletech than MWO. I guess whether it feels good or not is really going to depend on how well the open market thing turns out.

Non-linear campaign isn't bad, although I wish there was a story line. The franchise has so much lore already that it would be easy to incorporate various bits and pieces of a story while still having plenty of opportunity to roam about on contract. How hard would it be to get news feeds and intel dumps of upcoming big events on the timeline with contracts that force you to take part before new contracts are on the market?

Clans should be in the game, they are a big part of the lore now. With the open market they can even provide salvaged clan tech builds to help with parity. A lot is going to depend on whether or not they get the batchall system implemented properly.

All in all it sounds like they have a decent game being constructed. It's just sad that PGI has built such a level of distrust with the player base that people intend to wait and see rather then jump in line. That's going to hurt MW5 in the short term and may be something that isn't recoverable long term.

[TheFallOfTheReaper]

Reeeee 60$ "addon" for mwo with no customization, and no story gg pgi reeee wallets, reeee playerbase

[Jon Gotham]

Naglinator, on 13 September 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

People like you are the reason bad games keep getting made.

"my own separate way" is part of the reason any of the teamwork related aspects of mwo have failed, there's simply too many "my own separate way" type people around.

[Naglinator]

Jon Gotham, on 13 September 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

"my own separate way" is part of the reason any of the teamwork related aspects of mwo have failed, there's simply too many "my own separate way" type people around.

There are simply too many impatient people who get enticed by some ****** pre-order. When i first saw stellaris I was like "You know what, EU4 was pretty good, maybe I'll pre-order" Then i was like "Nah Nags, you can wait". And as usual, I was right. My new rule is wait for review THEN wait 4 months for first patch, THEN wait 2 more for steam to drop price 25 percent.

[Alan Davion]

Mole, on 13 September 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

Seriously? Are you actually trying to tell me that having a 'mech already built for you and being unable to change it requires more thought that figuring out how to build one yourself? What are you smoking and can I have some?

Yes it requires more thought you bloody fool.

Let's say you've got a lance of 20-25-30-35 ton mechs, and you end up against a lance of 40-45-50-55 ton mechs.

With no weapons customization you can't just slap on a brace of lasers and blaze away like a kid playing CoD. Unless of course your mechs are Wolfhounds or something which are laser boats by default.

You've got to figure out how to utilize the strengths of your mechs. Size and speed for instance, as well as the terrain, to turn the fight in your favor, fight in a way and location that maximizes your mechs potential, while exploiting the weaknesses of your enemies mechs.

Let's say you've got a lance of Commando 2Ds, and you've got to fend off a lance of Crab 27s.

Your mechs best weapons are primarily ammunition based, while your enemies are laser boats.

You don't have to worry about overheating if you're smart, but you do have to worry about running out of ammo.

Your enemy doesn't have to worry about ammo, but do have to worry about overheating.

How would you exploit the weakness of the Crabs all energy weapons load?

[sycocys]

If you think that MW5 is going to magically be better than MWO you should share your drugs with the rest of us. This company and especially its leadership have a long track record of making not very good games, they just lucked their way into a franchise that has enough people with no problems throwing money at anything with the brand to keep their shop open for years after they should have been boarded up.

[Oldbob10025]

Dread Render, on 13 September 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

Non-linear campaign is a "Good" thing.
Smile and say yeaaaa ;-)
It means the story is dynamic and will change depending on the decisions you make.
Yeaaaa ;-)

I agree and like Battletech from HPG it will be depending on what you decide the story should be and thats fine. I love games like that and lets think Fallout Vegas or Fallout 4 (Some concepts of it) you will be able to do almost anything but what you choose will be the story. Thats awesome and I its a good thing...

CLANS

As far as the clans I see this as a business standpoint because they can put out MW5 at lets say 3025 era and work their way up the time scale to the 4th succession war(3028) to the War of 3039 among other wars and conflicts as packs so we can purchase them for lets say $29.99 and I would IF THEY DID FU*KING story lore (sorry).

Then comes the clans for $49.99 and the Fedcom Civil war etc so its a great thought out plan to sell packs or conflict packs to us upto the clans to make some money for PGI while they have the licence to produce digital content. All the while were playing Mechwarrior Online buying mech packs etc..

Genius if they do that but thats what I would do as a company if I had PGI..

[KingCobra]

Jon Gotham, on 13 September 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

"my own separate way" is part of the reason any of the teamwork related aspects of mwo have failed, there's simply too many "my own separate way" type people around.

No the problem was PGI screwed up 5 years ago by not having a Social lobby system so players could use teamwork find friends and matches. So don't blame the players when they only had 1/4 of a horse to pull the cart.

As for MW5 Im not buying into it after 5+ years of frustration with Russ/PGI and MWO I cant see that game not being much better than minimal viable product at high prices.

Edited by KingCobra, 13 September 2017 - 04:23 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

sycocys, on 13 September 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

If you think that MW5 is going to magically be better than MWO you should share your drugs with the rest of us. This company and especially its leadership have a long track record of making not very good games, they just lucked their way into a franchise that has enough people with no problems throwing money at anything with the brand to keep their shop open for years after they should have been boarded up.

To be fair, someone at PGI (and I would love to know who) managed to create some rather good core gameplay mechanics for mech combat that basically carried the game for 5 years. It wasn't just the Battletech franchise that kept me from moving on to other games, like Hawken. The actual mech vs mech combat in MWO is fundamentally well designed. It's just too bad they never really added any meat to the bones.

[Alistair Winter]

TLBFestus, on 13 September 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

NOTE: To be honest this approach for me applies to the entire current method of "early access" baiting games and buying into them. How many of us have been burned by these games?
I come from the days when they used to beg you to beta test their games not convince you to give you money in order to bug test their often never completed junk ware. With Battletech, it's just a lot more personal than other games, and with PGI it's strictly "Fool me once...."

After years of experimentation with different business models in the game industry, I have come to the conclusion that there are only two models I really like:
a- The old model. You buy a game, you own it. End of story. Like buying a CD or a movie on DVD. Maybe some online patches and updates are added later, if you're lucky.

b- Crowd funding for a moddable game that doesn't require connection to servers. This means that if the end product isn't what you had hoped, or if they deliver an online game that is ruined later by balance changes or new content, the players who paid for it will at least have the freedom to mod the game in order to either add content or change content.

All this new stuff, F2P, Season passes... I don't care for it at all. I doubt I will ever fund another kickstarter campaign or buy a season pass as long as I live.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 13 September 2017 - 04:55 PM.

[Unnatural Growth]

TLBFestus, on 13 September 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

Let not forget all of Russ et als promises and big ideas for MWO;
















Anything Russ is "promising" or "telling us to expect" or "plans to include" is outright Bovine Droppings until we see it with our own eyes.

I for one am not giving them a dime for MW5 until I see the finished product. If you've been around here long enough you will do the same thing. if you are relatively new to PGI then I forgive you for your ignorance.


NOTE: To be honest this approach for me applies to the entire current method of "early access" baiting games and buying into them. How many of us have been burned by these games?

I come from the days when they used to beg you to beta test their games not convince you to give you money in order to bug test their often never completed junk ware. With Battletech, it's just a lot more personal than other games, and with PGI it's strictly "Fool me once...."

THIS.

If the final released copy comes out, and gets good reviews, I'll buy it and regular price. But there had better be a bunch of good reviews out there, from 3rd party sites, including in game video. But I'm not preordering or backing anything. No reason to believe that PGI will suddenly stop being PGI.

[Shard Phoenix]

I am perfectly O.K with non linear campaign, but with one caveat...

...It better be a decent dynamic campaign that actually provides some good replay value.

I'm a long time fan of the Silent Hunter series (except for SH5, so much failed potential that not even the modding community could really fix). The dynamic campaigns of the 3rd and 4th title were good, and re-play value was through the roof. No patrol ever played out the same. I've sunk (rimshot) far more hours into SH3/4 than I care to remember for that very reason alone.

[Anjian]

I would wonder if there is a coop mode like the late Armored Core games do (best missions I ever played in a mech game). A coop mode means you can invite someone to help you finish the mission as a live wingman.

As well as having bot wingmen, which are given portraits and dialogue. If a particular merc dies, he or she is no longer hirable, so instead you have to go through an infinite supply of mercs for hire that are randomly generated.

[Y E O N N E]

Paigan, on 13 September 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

For dumb shooters like Halo and the like, where cheesy titles like "Masterchief" are a parody in themselves, that is true.
But if you played (and understood) games like Mass Effect, Deus Ex, Witcher III, you cannot say that.

> Agrees Halo's story as tripe
> Cites Mass Effect as example of not-tripe

Ha!

[Chuck B]

Arnold The Governator, on 13 September 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

Here's a TL:DR since the OP didn't provide link any links to where he got his source of information from.

- There will not be a series of linear missions. Instead the player will be in command of a mercenary unit and choose between missions across the Inner Sphere.

- Around 300 planets in the Inner Sphere will be open for business, "letting you travel between the Great Houses while taking increasingly demanding contracts and building reputation with each faction as you also manage your lances of warriors and supporting technicians."

- The timeline will progress, with new technologies becoming available and the Clans arriving.

- You start the game with one weak Mech and work your way up.

- Mech customization will be very limited (if at all possible). The game will feature more than 60 chassis with 300 to 400 variants.

- In different parts of the Inner Sphere, different Mechs will be for sale.

- There will also be different weapon manufacturers.

- The build played the the PCGamer writer did not include any free market aspects.

- The damage model has been improved. There are different stages of armor peeling away until the internal structure begins to show.

- There will be infantry, artillery, land and air vehicles.

- The maps for the 300 planets will be dynamically generated. Some parameters: density of foliage, terrain patterns, weather, time of day.

- There won't be any Mech knockdowns.

- Buildings will be destructible.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OutreachHPG/comments/6zw4ku/pcgamer_hands_on_with_mechwarrior_5_mercenaries/?st=j7jgeavr&sh=9d8bb0b7

This is alot on PGI's plate, so I will wait and see how the reviews are first before I think about getting it. If they deliver all the things stated above and have a optional co-op contracts with other players, then that will be a strong selling point for me. Would be nice if they had a clan DLC with my pet mech in there as well for the clan invasion. *hint hint*

So PGI is basicly going to make a FPS game, based on the HBS Battletech game.. minus knockdown/ physical attacks?

[Snazzy Dragon]

I'll hold my biases and money until I see some gameplay.. but no mech customization is something to reel back from a bit. There are so many awful stock builds for an FPS setting, so out of all those variants, we're going to be shohorned into ignoring most of them in favor of something.. you know.. playable.

[Splatshot]

Remember no multi-player, so all you have is the campaign.

The other MW games had multi-player...

[Connor Davion]

Based on what was in the article I am cautiously optimistic. If they deliver on the promises this time I will buy this title at full price with a smile on my face.

Honestly if they had delivered on what was promised for MWO then they wouldn't even have needed to make MW5.

I fully enjoy MWO, but it is definitely not the product that was marketed. Something told me not to be a founder so I joined in Beta and have been here off and on since. I have thrown PGI some money here and there, but I will not back or pre-order MW5 until I can see the final product.

I am excited to see the franchise continue on but don't crush my heart PGI...please.

[TLBFestus]

I will give you this;

If by limited mech customization, that they follow the lore and during the game if you decide you want to change your IS mechs load out that said mech is unavailable for X number of weeks and costs you a ton of money to re-equip, then I get it.

Otherwise it's just "WTF?"