79 replies to this topic

[IL MECHWARRIOR]

Appogee, on 23 September 2017 - 12:26 AM, said:

All advice gratefully appreciated.

A couple of questions on the Black Knight you mention:
1. The BLK has lowish mounts. Wouldn't the GHR-5H with its higher mounts be better?
2. I tend to use LPLs instead of LLs, due to lower face time, higher DPS. You disagree with that strategy?
3. On the BLK, you must be using Standard Structure and not Endo?
4. On the BLK, I end up with a heat efficiency of 1.16. Seems low?

1)black knight is used on flat maps like emerald taiga or crimson, or river where you have to do a side peek ( so high or low mount is irrelevant) and the terrain is flat, a grasshopper could be better in more difficult terrains, like forest colony or grim plexus.
2)if using a combo, the facetime is given by longest duration weapon, in our case erml= 0.9. your LPLs can have even 0.4 duration, it is irrelevant as you still have to face your enemy for 0.9. At this point face enemy for 1.1 and gain back those 6 tons.
Damage wise you will lose that+1 damage after few meters anyways. LPL and CLPL are trash now.
3)no endo yes light ferro
4) i end up with 1.08 using 20 dhs and 3ll+6 erml

never watch that value, it is totally irrelevant: it does not consider quirks and it is designed in a poor way: if you have

1 LPL and 10 DHS it will say your heat eff is good
10 LPL and 70 DHS, will say it is poor
=
that number is no use at all
your heat eff is given by how many dhs you have
your damage output is a mix between alpha potential,number of heat sinks and range
example, a jagerS 4ac5 and 10DHS has poor heat eff and poor damage potential
a marauder II 2HLL+6erml 30 DHS has a high heat eff and high damage potential.

This because the marauder will refresh instant, and the jager will take ages: the mechlab does nto show this at all and will still say jager is more efficient, and this is wrong

Edited by anonymous223, 29 September 2017 - 08:10 AM.

[Appogee]

anonymous223, on 29 September 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

1)black knight is used on flat maps like emerald taiga or crimson, or river where you have to do a side peek ( so high or low mount is irrelevant) and the terrain is flat, a grasshopper could be better in more difficult terrains, like forest colony or grim plexus.
2)if using a combo, the facetime is given by longest duration weapon, in our case erml= 0.9. your LPLs can have even 0.4 duration, it is irrelevant as you still have to face your enemy for 0.9. At this point face enemy for 1.1 and gain back those 6 tons.
Damage wise you will lose that+1 damage after few meters anyways. LPL and CLPL are trash now.
3)no endo yes light ferro
4) i end up with 1.08 using 20 dhs and 3ll+6 erml

never watch that value, it is totally irrelevant: it does not consider quirks and it is designed in a poor way: if you have

1 LPL and 10 DHS it will say your heat eff is good
10 LPL and 70 DHS, will say it is poor
=
that number is no use at all
your heat eff is given by how many dhs you have
your damage output is a mix between alpha potential,number of heat sinks and range
example, a jagerS 4ac5 and 10DHS has poor heat eff and poor damage potential
a marauder II 2HLL+6erml 30 DHS has a high heat eff and high damage potential.

This because the marauder will refresh instant, and the jager will take ages: the mechlab does nto show this at all and will still say jager is more efficient, and this is wrong

Super answer, thanks. Really appreciate your taking the time to share those insights with me.

-> to the MechLab!

[el piromaniaco]

About that heat efficiency thing: —>to the testing grounds.

You‘ll never know what these numbers really mean until you tried your mech under different conditions.

[el piromaniaco]

Btw: a good way to improve in FP,

Know your mechs heat behaviour.
Numbers don‘t tell youneverything, try it out in testing grounds.
How many heat per shot? Per alpha? How fast does it cool down? How long does the power off after overheating takes, etc...

It‘s better to know these things before you go into battle.

[MovinTarget]

And when testing heat, test on hot maps so you get the worst case scenario at the very least.

[MischiefSC]

Have a set cycle to test mechs. For example I run every new build I'm going to really try through Caustic 3 times. Cent, Awesome, Phract, then over the hill to hit the Cicada, Mando, Cat, Atlas, finish with the Jenner.

3 minutes, 5 seconds is the cutoff for something to be viable. Killing all 8 inside that time means it's fast enough, does damage fast enough, is heat efficient enough to handle pushing/being pushed and has enough range to kill mechs without having to face-hug.

Having something like that helps. If you're going to test heat efficient and general build performance have a set cycle to gauge against.

[VXJaeger]

Right now IS has the most incompetent players I've ever seen. They play exactly how clanners would want them to play, and leave clanners space and time to use their general range-advantage. And then they whine that they lose.
Get fast, get close and kick clanners into face with short range weapons and don't just wait them to pewpew you into pieces.

If you want to play ranged play, you play exactly way where clanners are at their best and you are useless.

Edited by VXJaeger, 01 October 2017 - 02:18 AM.

[Tribal556]

Maybe, but how come all the incompetents are on the same side ?!

[Carl Vickers]

Tribal556, on 02 October 2017 - 07:01 PM, said:

Maybe, but how come all the incompetents are on the same side ?!

Cause IS mech are at a cheaper first price point over clan mechs, once you factor in all the upgrades an IS mech needs to be its best it is pretty much the same cost as a clan mech.

Btw, the IS side doesn't have the monopoly on incompetents, just more of them.

[ccrider]

Carl Vickers, on 02 October 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

Cause IS mech are at a cheaper first price point over clan mechs, once you factor in all the upgrades an IS mech needs to be its best it is pretty much the same cost as a clan mech.

Btw, the IS side doesn't have the monopoly on incompetents, just more of them.

Truth.

[KHAN ATTAKHAN]

Big alpha mechs or laser vomit mechs should be tested on Tourmaline first, Terra therma second, in order they are the 2 hottest maps in the game, do not test on Frozen, Polar or alpine unless you like heat shutdown every shot.

[justcallme A S H]

I run the same big alpha mechs on Polar as I do on Terra.

It's called - heat management.

[Carl Vickers]

KHAN ATTAKHAN, on 03 October 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

Big alpha mechs or laser vomit mechs should be tested on Tourmaline first, Terra therma second, in order they are the 2 hottest maps in the game, do not test on Frozen, Polar or alpine unless you like heat shutdown every shot.

Lol, every time I have seen you play you are in lurm boats, not once have I seen you in direct fire mechs.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

VXJaeger, on 01 October 2017 - 02:12 AM, said:

If you want to play ranged play, you play exactly way where clanners are at their best and you are useless.

It has become my mantra, but few listen.

[KHAN ATTAKHAN]

Carl I do admit that lrm's still make up a large part of my weapons loadout but I haven't used a dedicated lurm boat in ages, your thinking of the past mate and the days of the lrm boat, laser vomit or ballistic boom box are fast running out, time to change tact and use the multi role assault, it's coming back into its own.
LRM 15's for goomba stupid pilots that just march into the open
ER Large lasers for poptarters
ER Mediums for anything that gets close or you need to get in close and brawl
It works mate, simple as that.
I have always used those 2 maps for testing, even LRM boats get hot.

Edited by KHAN ATTAKHAN, 04 October 2017 - 05:51 AM.

[IL MECHWARRIOR]

"test mechs in worst conditions....bla bla bla"
WRONG

TEST THE MECHS IN THE MAP YOU WANT TO USE THEM ON

CHANGE DROP DECK EACH TIME YOU CHANGE THE MAP, you need 20 seconds and you got 60

example, an xl400 23 DHS 3ll+3erml battlemaster 1g may seem extremely underpowered on emerald taiga, but on therra therma or caustic valley it will have huge advantage by high mounts and 500 meters full damage (like alphastriking 4 LPL with no heat issues at 500 meters). On emerald instead, a black knight would be better, on hellebore you would rather need a 2erll+2gauss ilya or black weddy.

the mechs must be adapted to the map.
YOU MUST KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND BUILD THE MECH TO DO THAT EXACT THING

and again, brawling is the best way to get farmed, never brawl

IS must use laser vomits exploiting better duration, better mobility and BETTER MOUNTS

Edited by anonymous223, 04 October 2017 - 01:38 PM.

[Appogee]

anonymous223, on 04 October 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

and again, brawling is the best way to get farmed, never brawl

I tried swapping my LPL+ERML builds to LL+ERML builds. You are right, they are better, thanks to the additional heat dissipation. Thanks again for the advice.

I've been maintaining a Clan ballistic deck for use on hot maps. Is this a bad idea? Which Clan Heavy Mechs/loadouts would be better in your view for really hot maps like Terra Therma and Vitric?

Edited by Appogee, 04 October 2017 - 01:56 PM.

[MovinTarget]

anonymous223, on 04 October 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

"test mechs in worst conditions....bla bla bla"
WRONG

TEST THE MECHS IN THE MAP YOU WANT TO USE THEM ON

CHANGE DROP DECK EACH TIME YOU CHANGE THE MAP, you need 20 seconds and you got 60

example, an xl400 23 DHS 3ll+3erml battlemaster 1g may seem extremely underpowered on emerald taiga, but on therra therma or caustic valley it will have huge advantage by high mounts and 500 meters full damage (like alphastriking 4 LPL with no heat issues at 500 meters). On emerald instead, a black knight would be better, on hellebore you would rather need a 2erll+2gauss ilya or black weddy.

the mechs must be adapted to the map.
YOU MUST KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND BUILD THE MECH TO DO THAT EXACT THING

and again, brawling is the best way to get farmed, never brawl

IS must use laser vomits exploiting better duration, better mobility and BETTER MOUNTS

You are not wrong, but this is difficult to do for players that don't have the luxury of mountains of spacebux and near-infinite GSP...

Before you say that if they can't tailor their mechs perfectly to the map/mode every time they should not be playing fp, I would take an optimal pilot in a suboptimal mech on my team rather than a suboptimal pilot with the perfect frop deck.

In other words, i would rather spend 15 minutes getting a good team together over time spent in the mechlab.

Again, my stance is improving performance should contribute to winning, not padding stats.

[IL MECHWARRIOR]

Appogee, on 04 October 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

I tried swapping my LPL+ERML builds to LL+ERML builds. You are right, they are better, thanks to the additional heat dissipation. Thanks again for the advice.

I've been maintaining a Clan ballistic deck for use on hot maps. Is this a bad idea? Which Clan Heavy Mechs/loadouts would be better in your view for really hot maps like Terra Therma and Vitric?

No dakka with clans, it is useless

hot maps clans have 2 decks depending on range

mid range
2 night gyr 2HLL+2Gauss
1hellbringer 6 ml and 30 dhs all high mounts and full cooldown buff as well
1 mist winx MG

tourmaline\sulfurus deck
2 marauder IICD ecm 2erll+2gauss
1Ice fridge 5 erml with 15% heatgen quirk
1mist winx

alternative marauder IICD night gyr nova 6 med all on 1 arm and purifier 4 MPL or cheetah

Edited by anonymous223, 05 October 2017 - 05:40 AM.

[Appogee]

anonymous223, on 05 October 2017 - 05:39 AM, said:

No dakka with clans, it is useless

hot maps clans have 2 decks depending on range

mid range
2 night gyr 2HLL+2Gauss
1hellbringer 6 ml and 30 dhs all high mounts and full cooldown buff as well
1 mist winx MG

tourmaline\sulfurus deck
2 marauder IICD ecm 2erll+2gauss
1Ice fridge 5 erml with 15% heatgen quirk
1mist winx

alternative marauder IICD night gyr nova 6 med all on 1 arm and purifier 4 MPL or cheetah

Again, great advice, and much appreciated.