106 replies to this topic

[Cy Mitchell]

JC Daxion, on 25 September 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

these ac20 comments have been making me laugh.. But now you understand what ac20 brawlers need to do!

I have used an AC20 on my Centurion. It is one of the few IS Mechs that I have because it was a Loyalty reward. I much prefer that weapon to the one I just finished using.

VXJaeger, on 25 September 2017 - 11:22 PM, said:

Neg:
- Canyon network disapperared for whole weekend

You know what? You are right! I did not think about it until now but I never played Canyon once during the whole Event. I also did not play Terra Therma or Alpine now that I think about it.

Edited by Rampage, 26 September 2017 - 08:47 AM.

[Jman5]

The neat thing about the new in-game tournament page is that it updates in real time. This way, I was able to see exactly how much ballistic damage I was doing in each game.

The Good:

• IS-LB10X is quite good for its weight and slot size. Combine this with a properly skilled mech, ballistic quirks, and practice and it's really good. It was actually my highest performing ballistic weapon outside the machine guns.

• Machine Gun: performed the best out of all the weapons in terms of damage/ton. (including ammo)

• UAC/20: I hated this weapon going into it. I had put it in my DDC and its jam rate felt awful. However, I put it in a Cataphract 3D, which has one of the few IS Universal Jam Chance reduction quirks and it performed really well. Good Damage/Ton. (I actually put in max jump jets and max jump jet skills and it felt really fun)

• Heavy Gauss: Again another surprise. On the right map you can get nice damage from this thing. I don't like the slot size, but no ghost heat on double-shot is a big plus.

• Light Gauss: Dunno if I just had some good games with it, or what. But it performed really well when I used it.

The Bad:

• RACs: Both are awful weapon for their size. I think part of the problem is that all the other ballistic weapons benefit from those 10-20% ballistic Cooldown quirks that are everywhere. However, the RACs do not improve here. Another problem is the Firepower Cooldown skills do not help it. Unlike LBX and UACs, you cant make them work on certain specialist RAC mechs. Also, I don't think the IS targeting computer even helps them.

This is actually a larger problem with the new tech that many of the IS quirks are simply not accommodating them. There are all these LB10X and UAC/5 quirks that do nothing for the new tech so you're forced to use that specific weapon if you want the boost. Clans on the other hand who started off with a lot of LBX and UACs don't have any of these on their respective quirks. It's really annoying.

• LB5X: it was the worst of the LBX for me. LB2X, LB5X, and LB20X are too large and heavy for their damage. The only thing that will save them is for PGI to make all the LB10X quirks universal like Clan mechs get, and then they probably should just adjust the ammo/ton to save weight/slot space indirectly.

• Heavy Machine Gun: Its weak ammo/ton, with its doubled weight makes it just too heavy for what it does. You're better off just using regular Machine Guns. Ammo/Ton probably needs to be adjusted here to better balance it. Its range is awful too.

And the Rest: Well the rest were either mediocre or I felt the games I played them in were unusual and not worth regarding. UAC/5 for example I had a couple of really bad games and then a couple of really good games. I'm leaning toward good.

• UAC/10: surprisingly mediocre considering it's my favorite Clan weapon. My AC/10 games were actually better and I used the same mech. Not sure what to think about this.

• AC/2 vs UAC/2: There was very little damage difference between the two. In fact one game where I was using both they did identical damage even though I was double tapping. The fact that UAC/2 are 1 ton heavier and 2 slots bigger makes me question whether they are even worth bringing. Oh and LB2X was the worst of the three.

Edited by Jman5, 26 September 2017 - 10:09 AM.

[Dee Eight]

On my alts, I had to use whatever mechs the accounts owned or could afford with the correct ballistic mounts...and often times buy and sell weapons as I went along. They all have tourney supporter packs though so they'll double-up on cbill awards when the event ends.

On this account.... 200+ mechs... its just been a game of taking ballistic boats that seemed suited to hit the damage goals in as few matches as possible, since I waited till the last 36 hours of the event to start on it. The MGs were all done on my BJ-A and actually the 6 HMGs and 3 MPL build was the most fun. Its likely going to stay that way for awhile.

I'm just going thru annihilators and king crabs right now. I got the LB5X one in a single match... six of them add up quickly. The AC10 one, first match got me to 500/1000 with my ANH-1A. Not sure which mech I'll use to dual-mount the LB20s.

Edited by Dee Eight, 26 September 2017 - 10:15 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

El Bandito, on 25 September 2017 - 04:07 AM, said:

Yep, and mere 100 damage for AC2s and 500 damage for AC5s, even though it is much easier to hit 2000 damage with those weapons.

It's almost as if those who made the event requirements have no idea how these weapon systems (and the mechs that typically carry them) perform in this game! Oh wait.....

[Cloves]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 26 September 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

It's almost as if those who made the event requirements have no idea how these weapon systems (and the mechs that typically carry them) perform in this game! Oh wait.....

Keep in mind that events are designed to raise active population by getting as many people to play for as long as possible, thus BRILLIANT!!!! (insert Mad Scientist laugh)

[InfinityBall]

Jman5, on 26 September 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

he two. In fact one game where I was using both they did identical damage even though I was double tapping. The fact that UAC/2 are 1 ton heavier and 2 slots bigger makes me question whether they are even worth bringing. Oh and LB2X was the worst of the three.

Agreed on the AC2 vs UAC2

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Cloves, on 26 September 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Keep in mind that events are designed to raise active population by getting as many people to play for as long as possible, thus BRILLIANT!!!! (insert Mad Scientist laugh)

If that had been the goal, then ac/uac2's would have been made 3-5k damage...to make it doable but take a few games. I did 900+ in my first match with a uac2 Mauler...so, I just sent a little bit over the goal.

[Cloves]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 26 September 2017 - 11:29 AM, said:

If that had been the goal, then ac/uac2's would have been made 3-5k damage...to make it doable but take a few games. I did 900+ in my first match with a uac2 Mauler...so, I just sent a little bit over the goal.

They also need to "appear" to be fair and doable, worth the investment involved. I cite the Bomb Girl prize as the reward for the most strenuous challenge. No idea what they where thinking with the Gauss, maybe also encouraging folks to try all the weapons also plays in.

[C E Dwyer]

Positive

P.G.I were generous enough to give away a brand new cockpit item.

Negatives

The events page.

The event concept.

Edited by Cathy, 26 September 2017 - 11:40 AM.

[Damnedtroll]

Surprised to do so well with quad lb2x jm6-dd and also the god damned ac10 is so bad...

Edited by Damnedtroll, 26 September 2017 - 12:31 PM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Cloves, on 26 September 2017 - 11:36 AM, said:

They also need to "appear" to be fair and doable, worth the investment involved. I cite the Bomb Girl prize as the reward for the most strenuous challenge. No idea what they where thinking with the Gauss, maybe also encouraging folks to try all the weapons also plays in.

I know you want to make some sense of the challenges....I think we all would feel better if we could. However, once you embrace the horrible truth it is freeing....freeing enough to make you (as I did) build that stupid ac2,ac5, ac20 Black widow....because this event isn't about what makes sense.....free your mind...

[LT. HARDCASE]

I concluded that PGI needs to up the rewards 3 or 4 fold, for it to be worth the hassle.

How many people own regular CACs? Buying one of each costs 2.8 million cbills. The reward was 500k.

So the event didn't benefit the new or old players. What's the point?

[MischiefSC]

I was surprised at just how clearly inferior most ballistics are currently. Gaussvomit/laservomit out classes any of the ballistic options by a painful amount.

[Dee Eight]

Aside from the lack of anti-jam quirk...the KCG-0000 rocks with dual UAC/20s, four RL10s (for a one-shot 80 damage blast, or chain fire as four 20s), 4 small lasers, 10 tons of ammo, AMS, 300 Light, and nearly maxed armor.

[Davegt27]

so far the CAC20 is the worst weapon IMO
I am on drop 12 and my third Mech trying to get the 2000

first was the KDK-3 with 2 AC20s for 5 drops
next was the Orion IIC with 1 AC20 for 5 drops
now I am using a TW

[panzer1b]

The most surprising thing for me is how much effectiveness i managed to pull out of clan autocannons, mostly the AC20 and AC10 (AC5s are absolutely worthless, AC2s are only useful on boreal where the extra range over UAC2 is worth it, aside from that ONE map and possibly a very specific strat on alpine, pointless). As for AC10, i had a very good game and i got the entire mission done in 1 game using the mad2c-a (2 AC10, 2 ERLL, 2ERML), its not exactly a revolutionary build, but its really good if i can get a game that plays to the strengths of the AC10s which may as well be heat-free (2 heat for 10 dmg is really good), no gauss rifle, but basically 0 heat generation allowing me to sustain a fight up to the point i run out of ammo (and i still have a solid energy loadout to back up the cannons, managed like 1500K dmg total, over 1000 with AC10s). As for AC20, there is ONE mech/build i had luck with, 2 AC20 and 2 ERPPC on a MCII-2, and while it has its issues (and is still inferior to my other brawl build, dual UAC20 with 2 ERLL secondarys), it works surprisingly well. Its not super reliable, but its no worse then many other "brawl" builds, just gets shafted when the enemy doesnt come into range and the map doesnt really let you use cover well.

The event also really showed me how good the UAC20 really is, despite the burst fire, low velocity, and short range. The ability to dump 40 damage in under a second, alongside whatever other weapons you got (ive had very good results on my HBR, either shooting from the edge of a brawl, or occasionally backstabbing unattentive mechs with the 75 alfa strike on doubletap). It also became on of my go-to weapons on the bushwanker, with 1 UAC20 and 4 ERMLs, has its issues when the game doesnt let one brawl, but in most matches its 500+ dmg minimum and like 2-3 solo kills.

Aside from that, not much has changed on my opinion on guns.

Despite them being sorta decent, ill stick to UACs rather then ACs (both clan and IS side, double damage per ton beats more focused damage) since UACs are 100% superior in everything but some niche circumstances.

Gauss rifles are just as good as they were before the event, HGR is hard to use, but a solid performer after the patch which buffed it, GR is very good on clan, ok on IS, and LGR sucks, but well, i didnt really expect much out of a 8dmg weapon (proved to myself once and for all how bad they are when dual weilded on a MAD3R, i can make it work with 1 LGR and like 4 high end lasers, but then the lasers do 90% of the work and i dont even need the LGR).

MGs are generally lousy, fun, very fun, but also just not powerful enough unless they are LMGs and even then only when combined with lasers or some other energy that is used to open people up. LMG, even when nerfed, is the only MG id consider using on a serious level (HMGs are super badarse and when they work they evicerate people, but the range is too big a drawback and they weight too much on IS to use at all). On IS, all MGs suck (too heavy for that they do), on clan, with teh right build, are a very good secondary to finish people off when open.

LBXs (with the very specific excpetion of the cLBX20 on a SRM brawler) are worthless, a bit funny yeah, but simply worthless. The UACs may spread damage around if you get a very fast agile target (or have bad aim), but they are physically capable of dumping every point of damage into a single component with good aim (or as it usually happens, when enemy isnt moving), so they are better at actually killing people. The crit bonus to LBXs is worthless in all but edge cases (only weapon that really benefits from crits are the various MGs) since it still takes multiple hits to core someone out, and since 50% or so of your damage will spread, you end up doing less then UACs would unless its point blank range.

And thats about it, i like ballistics, but after the constant nerfing of uacs in general (especially clan uacs which are already screwy and spread damage like crazy) really lowers my enjoyment of the weapon system. Gauss is obviously the meta thing on clan (velocity, PPFLD, range, and workable DPS), but i want to use and still have occasional fun with UACs and other ballistics (just not on a super competitive level, cant carry games with a UAC20 on your own like you can with a GR).

[Davegt27]

I sort of hate this event all this stuff I am using I tested a year and a half ago and its like
ok watch this

[Oldbob10025]

I liked the fact they are testing out a new event system and are hammering out the bugs now. The event was a bit much to purchase the weapons (clan side for me) but had fun none the less

[Insanity09]

The good?
I saw more mechs that are rarely seen in typical circumstances. The event as a whole favored weapons that don't seem as popular under normal circumstances, thus getting a little more diversity into the game, at least temporarily. (maybe so PGI could get more usage data on weapons for which the stats were lacking? Here's hoping...)


The bad?

So many weapon types all required to complete each individual piece of the challenge made this a little unfeasible for me.

The damage requirements were not normalized in any sensible fashion. For example, to complete the AC2 portion of the challenge, you needed to get 100 points of damage. That's 50 shots at full damage, with the longest range, fastest shell velocity, lowest cooldown weapon of the class. And you can have multiple AC2s quite easily. By comparison, you needed 2K damage with the AC20, which is 100 shots with the lowest range, lowest velocity, longest cooldown weapon that you can probably only have 2 of, at most, on a assault mech (maybe a heavy?). That makes little sense.

Some weapons are just bad (small LBX's, imo), and running my mechs with those weapons would have further marginalized builds that already run near the limit of useful. I just ended up not bothering with a number parts of the challenge.
In fact I only did three as IS: rotaries, MGs, and regular AC's. The IS LBX, Gauss and Ultra challenges I just laughed at for various reasons. Re-building a mech or two just to complete the challenge, which in some cases would have also required a minor skill respec, just wasn't worth it.

(this is both bad and good) The MG challenge proved to me that the heavy MG is junk, something I'd already suspected but hadn't sufficiently tested for my own satisfaction. Twice the weight, half the ammo, and a fraction of the crit multiplier just isn't feasible.
(and btw, for the detractors and complainers about MGs, the crit muliplier, combined with the low range and low ammo for the hmg is too low to make it useful. LMG crit is too high. Regular mg isn't bad. I'd almost suggest that the crit numbers be reversed: give hmg the high and lmg the low, leave regular mg where it is. Would that fix the hmg? Maybe not full , but it is a step in the right direction, possibly add a little more ammo as well, 1500/t?)

Edited by Insanity09, 26 September 2017 - 07:48 PM.

[Bombast]

Another bad I think I missed: The teams are heavy. Dear god are they heavy. I've switched to running my Hunchback only, just to lower team weight and get quicker match times. Tonight in particular its been ridiculous - a 50 tonner has been the lightest mech on the team several times.