239 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

[Curccu]

Dee Eight, on 04 October 2017 - 04:35 AM, said:

Your Smurfy math is wrong because you're trying to compare a maximum armored lynx to a lighter armored piranha. That you don't understand WHY that is NOT how available pod space is correctly calculated for comparisons is not my problem. Stock values are in fact all that relevant for the comparison. You total the fixed equipment of the lynx and an equal weight of armor and compare to the piranha with the equipment it needs to function, and the same weight of armor, and the difference between that and the total chassis weight is the # available for additional weapons/armor/equipment. And the lynx has more. Always will. Unless you as I already explained, down rate the engine of the Piranha to a 145XL. Without doing that, even with the FF armor added, it will never have more tonnaged available for weapons than the lynx.

If that math is too complicated for you.... Go into the in-game store, click a mlx-prime, enter the mechlab, strip the equipment (its an omni so only the non-fixed components will strip out) and presto... drops the total to 17.5 tons.. That's with the same 134 pts of FF armor as the Piranha A and B have. Thus we're comparing 7.5 tons available to 7.0 tons available.

Another way to go would be to just look at the stock loadouts as they're presented on the store page of the Piranha A and B and subtract the weight of weapons they carry. The 8 MGs, 2 micro ER lasers, and single small ER laser total 3 tons. Four AMS units add 2 tons to that. One ton each of MG and AMS ammo and presto... 7 tons available.

How many different ways would you like to have it explained to you that you are wrong ?

Wow... ok lets not call it podspace then lets call it "how much tonnage you have available after stripping useless s*** off the mech while having only max engine and 10 heatsinks installed"-space that is the value that matters when you compare armaments of these mechs.

I hope there isn't many morons around who play MLX with stock armor.

[Tordin]

Came to think of it. PGI didnt do the scaling of engine rating for the Piranha? To avoid speed limit break?
Well then NO EXCUSE to not include the Fire Moth hand the Flea. Just no excuse.
Also the Flea is waaay overdue, thanks to that the Locust sneaked in before it as one of the reseen..
And we need more lights anyway.

Edited by Tordin, 04 October 2017 - 08:06 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Tordin, on 04 October 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

Came to think of it. PGI didnt do the scaling of engine rating for the Piranha? To avoid speed limit break?
Well then NO EXCUSE to not include the Fire Moth hand the Flea. Just no excuse.
Also the Flea is waaay overdue, thanks to that the Locust sneaked in before it as one of the reseen..
And we need more lights anyway.

Except the Fire Moth goes faster than the Piranha, Locust or Commando even before MASC, with a 200XL. Sure, they could change the MASC Mk I to do something else, but that doesn't change the fact that it would still be the fastest 'mech in the game.

Give me the Flea though, no issues with that.

[Cherry Garden full of Blue Roses]

I'll be diffrent... THE NEXT DAMMIT CLAN MECH!

Guys, when we receive a proper IS mech? E.g. a medium with 20 ballistic points... (answer is: never)

And don't tell me about the lore. True, it's important, but MWO is not a tabletop game. Devs can repair the balance in their own game, even if it has its roots in books.

Edited by Cherry Garden full of Blue Roses, 04 October 2017 - 08:25 AM.

[Curccu]

Cherry Garden full of Blue Roses, on 04 October 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

I'll be diffrent... THE NEXT DAMMIT CLAN MECH!

Guys, when we receive a proper IS mech? E.g. a medium with 20 ballistic points... (answer is: never)

And don't tell me about the lore. True, it's important, but MWO is not a tabletop game. Devs can repair the balance in their own game, even if it has its roots in books.

Well The Arrow is closest you got so far.
And not really sure how giving IS 20B medium mech would balance it..

[Jay Leon Hart]

Cherry Garden full of Blue Roses, on 04 October 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

Guys, when we receive a proper IS mech?

The Osiris and Nightstar releasing in 2 weeks should both be solid performers.

The Thanatos looks to be a decent to good choice, it really depends how those torso bulges translate into hitboxes.

The Hellspawn should be anything from average to great, again it depends on how the "nose" hitboxes end up.

The "recently" released (this year) Bushwacker, Assassin and Javelin are excellent 'mechs, too.

Cherry Garden full of Blue Roses, on 04 October 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

E.g. a medium with 20 ballistic points... (answer is: never)

Well, the hardpoint limit for weapons is 16, so... yeah, never, not even for Clan.

[Cherry Garden full of Blue Roses]

Curccu, on 04 October 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

Well The Arrow is closest you got so far.
And not really sure how giving IS 20B medium mech would balance it..

Frankly, that was sarcams with that 20B I just wonder why IS cannot have such a lot of weapon points like Clan mechs have. I mean, it make me angry that Clan mech has such a great distance, great alphas, great Double Heat Sinks, great weapons tonnage, great XL engines - comparing to IS mechs. Just one thing will be enough for me to make the balance quite good - the IS should be tanks, hard to destroy no matter what, and Clan mechs should be much easier to kill. That's how I see it with present balance of the game.

Edited by Cherry Garden full of Blue Roses, 04 October 2017 - 10:49 AM.

[Baltor]

Update on loyalty rewards 2017:
The Prianha Collectors Pack counts now for sure towards the Top-Tier-Clan-Reward 2017 if you buy it before november 14th 2017.

Quote from https://mwomercs.com/profile/content :
"Eligible combinations: At least two Collector Packs from any combination of the following Packs: Kodiak; Viper; Night Gyr; Huntsman; Linebacker; Marauder IIC; Supernova; Civil War-Cougar; Civil War-Mad Cat MKII; Civil War: Escalation - Arctic Wolf; Civil War: Escalation - Nova Cat; Now Including (Collector Pack) - Piranha or a combination of any 6 Wave 1, Wave 2, IIC Clan Hero 'Mechs, Hero Add-ons, or Reinforcement Add-ons. (for applicable Clan Mech packs)"

[AJBennett]

HOW ABOUT FIXING THE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN REPORTED WITH YOUR BROKEN EVENT BROWSER PGI?!?!?!

Edited by AJBennett, 04 October 2017 - 11:36 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Curccu, on 04 October 2017 - 06:12 AM, said:

Wow... ok lets not call it podspace then lets call it "how much tonnage you have available after stripping useless s*** off the mech while having only max engine and 10 heatsinks installed"-space that is the value that matters when you compare armaments of these mechs.

I hope there isn't many morons around who play MLX with stock armor.

So...people who play a 25 ton mech...with only 3.5 tons of armor...instead of 4.5 tons (the maximum) are morons then ? Oookie fine. But you you still won't admit you're wrong about the math ? Changing how you call it...doesn't alter the fact...that the Lynx still has more UNLESS you fit a 145XL engine to the piranha.

A 20 ton chassis with endo steel requires 1 ton for the internal structure, and a 25 ton chassis with endo steel requires 1.5 tons for the internal structure. So that's 19 tons and 23.5 tons remaining respectively.

Armor will weigh the same for both, and 3.5 tons of clan FF provides 134 points of armor. Now its 15.5 tons and 20 tons remaining respectively.

A 180XL weighs the same as a 175XL which is 5.5 tons. Both options require 3 external double heat sinks which add another 3 tons, so 8.5 tons total. Now there's 7 tons remaining and 11.5 tons respectively.

The piranha has no additional fixed equipment but the lynx has 6 jump jets and an active probe which combine for 4 tons. Thus we arrive at, 7 tons available for weapons on the piranha versus 7.5 tons on the lynx.

So what color is the sky in the magical world where you live that 7 is greater than 7.5 and in which the myst lynx is magically unplayable to only you it seems, with equal armor protection to the piranha.

So

[Jay Leon Hart]

Just for clarity...

Curccu, on 04 October 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

Faster, Smaller, Same number of true DHS as MLX and more pod space than MLX.

Dee Eight, on 04 October 2017 - 02:34 AM, said:

Except it doesn't.

Quote

Pod Space
The amount of unallocated space that an OmniMech carries. Pod Space is what allows the OmniMech its tactical flexibility.

So, Podspace refers to slots, not tonnage. It's in the name, space, not weight.

With that out of the way, since the MLX has 6 fixed JJs and a fixed CAP, it has 7 less available slots than an PIR with Endo & Ferro, 14 less if the PIR drops Endo or Ferro and 21 less if the PIR drops Endo & Ferro. A STD engine would allow for 4 more slots over the MLX.

So, in fact, the PIR has more podspace than the MLX, because tonnage is not podspace.

[Curccu]

Dee Eight, on 04 October 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

Spoiler

So...people who play a 25 ton mech...with only 3.5 tons of armor...instead of 4.5 tons (the maximum) are morons then ? Oookie fine. But you you still won't admit you're wrong about the math ? Changing how you call it...doesn't alter the fact...that the Lynx still has more UNLESS you fit a 145XL engine to the piranha.

A 20 ton chassis with endo steel requires 1 ton for the internal structure, and a 25 ton chassis with endo steel requires 1.5 tons for the internal structure. So that's 19 tons and 23.5 tons remaining respectively.

Armor will weigh the same for both, and 3.5 tons of clan FF provides 134 points of armor. Now its 15.5 tons and 20 tons remaining respectively.

A 180XL weighs the same as a 175XL which is 5.5 tons. Both options require 3 external double heat sinks which add another 3 tons, so 8.5 tons total. Now there's 7 tons remaining and 11.5 tons respectively.

The piranha has no additional fixed equipment but the lynx has 6 jump jets and an active probe which combine for 4 tons. Thus we arrive at, 7 tons available for weapons on the piranha versus 7.5 tons on the lynx.

So what color is the sky in the magical world where you live that 7 is greater than 7.5 and in which the myst lynx is magically unplayable to only you it seems, with equal armor protection to the piranha.

So

There is no 7.5 tons

My math is correct, I have no ******* clue why you are so obsessed comparing these two mechs without full armor on both mechs.

[Curccu]

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 October 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

So, in fact, the PIR has more podspace than the MLX, because tonnage is not podspace.

Thanks for clarification, I'm not BT player. To this point in game when people have used that word it has meant free tonnage.
from now on I keep using this new term:
"how much tonnage you have available after stripping useless s*** off the mech while having only max engine and 10 heatsinks installed"-space.

[Dee Eight]

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 October 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

Just for clarity...






So, Podspace refers to slots, not tonnage. It's in the name, space, not weight.

Except...it doesn't. Because in the battletech lore, and every TRO... its defined as tonnage... open any TRO entry for any clan omnimech and look for yourself. under Armament, it will say # tons of pod space available. in the 3050 TRO an uller for example is 16 tons of pod space available.

[Dee Eight]

Curccu, on 04 October 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

There is no 7.5 tons

My math is correct, I have no ******* clue why you are so obsessed comparing these two mechs without full armor on both mechs.

Great...you took a screen cap of it with MAXIMUM armor to compare it to something without, so you play a good troll game. Congratulations. The comparison for the folks who actually wish to learn why we compare stuff with equal equipment ... is that that is the ONLY way to see which is actually has more tonnage available to work with. But if you want to go on continuing with an apples to oranges comparison... well... maybe someone else will agree with you.

[Captn Kirk]

I would buy the hero if possible. The rest no thanks.

[X Player]

Starting in January, I'll have to shower twice a day because piloting this Mech is going to be so dirty.

[Genesis23]

Ovion, on 04 October 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

Na. I mean, Locusts don't get that much. (see above)
An optimal Locust has 107 base armour, 59 internals +18 (arms and legs) for a total of .184 (almost 10% of that just in the head) health across all locations.

Even the tankiest Locust, the 3V with max armour and survival quriks, is only 147 armour + 113 internals for 260 total (17% of that just in the head. Realistically, it'd be 228 total, with the standard 5/1/5 arm/head spread for optimal weight)


Spider used to be *the king* of Light Mechs for ages, then again later a couple of times.
It may get its time again.

And even then, the Spider is hardly down and out - it's still one of the fastest and jumpiest mechs in the game, very agile and with options for ECM / Stealth. You just have to take 2-3 heavier lasers rather than lots of little ones.

my armor numbers where from the mwo wiki where they say 170 something max armor for a locust. i guess theyre not really accurate anymore.

spiders were the kings of light mechs? they were horribly outgunned from the start, the ecm variant had some use and the 5k had its times with the insane energy quirk, which is no longer existant. spiders have no place or use anymore - unless of course you want yourself to suffer and make your game needlessly difficult.

Edited by Genesis23, 04 October 2017 - 11:36 PM.

[Genesis23]

X Player, on 04 October 2017 - 11:27 PM, said:

Starting in January, I'll have to shower twice a day because piloting this Mech is going to be so dirty.

just twice a day? in that case, i highly doubt you even manage to get into your bathroom because of the weight of the dried-on dirt