167 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Honestly IS XL needs less penalty thsn Clan, not more. It uses 33% more space.

This mentality that IS stuff has to be inferior to Clan stuff is the most incompetent, stupid, moronic mentality anyone has about this game. People calling for constant CoF have more logical basis than this stuff.

Even in TT the OP Clan tech vs inferior IS tech was abandoned. In current TT rules it's moved to 1 to 1 balance between IS and Clans, because the whole idea was absolute unmitigated **** that only made munchkins happy.

Shoot that whole concept in the head and let it die, JUST LIKE TT DID, and make good decision to make a good, balanced game.

There's also way too much power creep in BT. Also straight upgrades in weapons - notice how we don't do that either? I get that some peo people want one side (their side) to have an advantage. Well, **** each and every one of them in the eat. If they had all quit in disgust because the Clan tech was balanced well with IS at launch we would still have more total players now because the people who left because it was broken would still be here. This is a 12 v 12 team v team FPS. If the basis for the two sides isn't balanced then the game is bad at a fundamental level.

That this isn't fixed is so numbingly stupid it's hard to put it into words.

[DAYLEET]

MischiefSC, on 06 October 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

Honestly IS XL needs less penalty thsn Clan, not more. It uses 33% more space.

This mentality that IS stuff has to be inferior to Clan stuff is the most incompetent, stupid, moronic mentality anyone has about this game. People calling for constant CoF have more logical basis than this stuff.

Even in TT the OP Clan tech vs inferior IS tech was abandoned. In current TT rules it's moved to 1 to 1 balance between IS and Clans, because the whole idea was absolute unmitigated **** that only made munchkins happy.

Shoot that whole concept in the head and let it die, JUST LIKE TT DID, and make good decision to make a good, balanced game.

There's also way too much power creep in BT. Also straight upgrades in weapons - notice how we don't do that either? I get that some peo people want one side (their side) to have an advantage. Well, **** each and every one of them in the eat. If they had all quit in disgust because the Clan tech was balanced well with IS at launch we would still have more total players now because the people who left because it was broken would still be here. This is a 12 v 12 team v team FPS. If the basis for the two sides isn't balanced then the game is bad at a fundamental level.

That this isn't fixed is so numbingly stupid it's hard to put it into words.

You have a Clan tag, this will work as reverse psychology for PGI brains and they will buff Clan you mark my words.

[LT. HARDCASE]

LFEs would be relegated to solely AC20 builds. STD would be relegated to that one H.Gauss gimmick build you run for laughs.

The game would finally be in a state where you could truly work on Clan vs IS balance.

As long as the Clan XL stands as the God of MWO, there will be no peace.

[The Soul Hunter]

IS quirks would be nerfed into the ground and then the real whine would begin. LFE would be worthless except for in AC 20 builds but I think the moment IS loses it's quirks a bunch of mechs will go back to being garbage and then they'll just whine even more.

[Snazzy Dragon]

LFE would be pointless aside from the occasional AC/20 build and STD would still suck.

Wow, that was easy to answer

[MischiefSC]

LFE with no penalty on ST loss.

Also, STDs need to give a 15pt structure buff to all 3 torsos.

LFEs can give a 7pt bonus.

XLs give none.

There's a ton of ways to make those both useful still.

[DAYLEET]

Snazzy Dragon, on 06 October 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

LFE would be pointless aside from the occasional AC/20 build and STD would still suck.

Wow, that was easy to answer

But. Would it be wrong?

[Andi Nagasia]

Snazzy Dragon, on 06 October 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

LFE would be pointless aside from the occasional AC/20 build and STD would still suck.

Wow, that was easy to answer

but what if LFEs where balanced with better Mobility stats(lets say +20%)?
and then a structure bonus for STD to be viable for both Factions?

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 06 October 2017 - 07:10 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Andi Nagasia, on 06 October 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

but what if LFEs where balanced with better Mobility stats(lets say +20%)?
and then a structure bonus for STD to be viable for both Factions?

I love that idea.

[Daurock]

Andi Nagasia, on 06 October 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

but what if LFEs where balanced with better Mobility stats(lets say +20%)?
and then a structure bonus for STD to be viable for both Factions?

Something like that could be workable i think. The "Bonus" applied might have to be based on mech class though. A static mobility bonus for example might be too powerful in the hands of a light mech that only sacrifices 1 or 2 tons to get a sub 250 class engine, but not great for a heavy.

[Shifty McSwift]

For me to start it was just about having a level of standardisation even across the IS/clan divide on many aspects like this. The classification of engines just being a simple distinction of XL making a mech destroyable on the loss of a second side torso and STD engines being able to survive with no side torsos, with the clan/IS difference being made between those distinctions if need be (say with clan being less effected with one ST loss on an XL or whatever).

This would leave room for a lighter set of engines for both clan and IS that do die to a single ST loss (XXL), as well as keeping the idea of negative effects on a ST loss (on top of everything lost in its destruction) XL engines and granting the in between LFE the benefit of no extra weird deficiencies at a single ST loss, and maybe some kind of other quirk (like taking different engine slots or whatever).

But then again...

Roadbuster, on 05 October 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

This is pretty likely too.

[jss78]

Roadbuster, on 05 October 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

I was literally pouring myself a Diet Coke as I saw this. Now I feel troubled.

[Khobai]

Quote

but what if LFEs where balanced with better Mobility stats(lets say +20%)?
and then a structure bonus for STD to be viable for both Factions?

they should just add engine crits to the game.

ISXL would be able to survive 4 crits or a side torso destruction plus 1 additional crit

CXL/LFE would be able to survive 4 crits or a side torso destruction plus 2 additional crits. LFE would also get half penalties and possibly a structure bonus (+5 CT/+3 ST structure bonus).

each engine crit slot thats destroyed on an ISXL/CXL would have a penalty of -20% internal heatsinks and -10% speed that could stack upto 3 times. LFE would get half penalties.

STD would be immune to crits and get no penalties. As well as a structure bonus (+20 CT structure bonus) and possibly an internal heatsink bonus (+10% internal heatsink dissipation/capacity bonus).

ISXL and STD would be straight up buffed. CXL/LFE would be slightly riskier to use but considering theyre the best engines they should incur more risk. All three IS engines would be worth using then in certain situations. And ISXL and CXL would be better balanced with eachother.

Edited by Khobai, 07 October 2017 - 03:11 AM.

[Baulven]

ST survival and give IS an extra stock heatsink (to make up for the extra slots) and they are functionally simioar without being the same.

[CheeseThief]

Honestly. I'd like to see the damage transfer numbers tethered to engine class and the numbers tweaked rather than playing with major mechanics that exist pretty much only because of the lore.

Currently when shooting a destroyed section, 50% of the damage is transferred inward and the other 50% is lost.

I'd have it be;
XL engines transfer damage in full (IS XL die on side torso loss, cXL takes full damage when shot in destroyed sections).
Light engines transfer the current 50%
Standard engines buffed to transfer 25% of the damage taken, voiding 75% of the damage received on destroyed sections.


This nerfs the cXL in a way that doesn't step on any lore toes.
The IS have their choice of engines, a flimsy XL for more guns, a nice and balanced Light engine or an ultra durable Standard engine that lets the mech use its shield side as a shield even after its been shot off.
The Clans will still have a cXL engine that can survive a side torso loss, but the cXL is made less durable than than the heavier IS Light while still leaving the option for a more durable Standard for the Clan mechs that can equip it.

This change would reinforce faction diversity that PGI is currently attempting to create with quirks.
Clan mechs are the sharks. They zoom in with their better mechs and better tech, but as soon as they start falling to bits, boy oh boy will they start falling to bits.
IS mechs become more durable by simply being IS mechs. 50% damage reduction on light engine damage transfer, 75% DR on Std engine damage transfer, this means that IS mechs who are actively defending could take two to four times more firepower to kill than a cXL equipped mech. This gives IS mechs a massive advantage in the close range boom-twist style of gameplay, to counter balance the clan mechs advantage of having better equipment and better weapons with more range and damage..

The best part about doing this is that it only affects higher levels of play. A potato who doesn't know how to twist and gets CT cored will see no difference with these changes, a player who overheats and gets backstabbed will also see no difference. These changes would only become apparent in higher levels of play where players know how to actively defend and protect individual sections of their giant stompy robot.

[The Lighthouse]

MischiefSC, on 06 October 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

Even in TT the OP Clan tech vs inferior IS tech was abandoned. In current TT rules it's moved to 1 to 1 balance between IS and Clans, because the whole idea was absolute unmitigated **** that only made munchkins happy.

Are they now? It's been so long since I stopped caring about TT.

The whole "Clan" thing was really a mistake in the first place. They are supposed to be just Lostech rediscovered, not a whole faction really.

[Brain Cancer]

They didn't so much move to 1:1 as they simply made mixtech easier and more common to the point that production-level units are beginning to regularly combine the two. IS versions of most Clan weaponry are still inferior, but now you have units incorporating the higher tech across most factions. Heck, the Mad Cat II was one of the first examples of that effort- a Clantech machine fluffed as sold to Inner Sphere buyers.

And again, the wwaaaayback pre-release idea was that Star League tech = Clans, but someone decided it'd be a good idea to just make them super robots. We've been paying for it every since.

[MischiefSC]

Brain Cancer, on 07 October 2017 - 10:16 AM, said:

They didn't so much move to 1:1 as they simply made mixtech easier and more common to the point that production-level units are beginning to regularly combine the two. IS versions of most Clan weaponry are still inferior, but now you have units incorporating the higher tech across most factions. Heck, the Mad Cat II was one of the first examples of that effort- a Clantech machine fluffed as sold to Inner Sphere buyers.

And again, the wwaaaayback pre-release idea was that Star League tech = Clans, but someone decided it'd be a good idea to just make them super robots. We've been paying for it every since.

Yep. More to the point the IS makes their own Clan tech equipment - so there really isn't any Clan tech in that context anymore.

Which is what we don't want - in TT we would make the regular ACs irrelevant, tossed out in favor of LBX and UACs and RACs. All weapons got straight upgrades. Bigger ACs are absolute flat upgrades to smaller ones as a given rule. We throw that aside to keep all weapons viable, but we don't want to deviate from the lore about the absolute failure that was IS/Clan balance?

BS. Forget all the munchkins who want to cry every time you suggest they compete on an even field. The game is better without them. Balance the tech.

[Andi Nagasia]

Brain Cancer, on 07 October 2017 - 10:16 AM, said:

They didn't so much move to 1:1 as they simply made mixtech easier and more common to the point that production-level units are beginning to regularly combine the two. IS versions of most Clan weaponry are still inferior, but now you have units incorporating the higher tech across most factions. Heck, the Mad Cat II was one of the first examples of that effort- a Clantech machine fluffed as sold to Inner Sphere buyers.

And again, the wwaaaayback pre-release idea was that Star League tech = Clans, but someone decided it'd be a good idea to just make them super robots. We've been paying for it every since.

if everything was balanced 1:1 mixed tech wouldnt be too much of a problem,
because at that points their be reasons to take & not take everything,

im not saying that Mixed Tech is or isnt a good idea,
just that if everything was well balanced it wouldnt be seen as a problem solution,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 07 October 2017 - 12:02 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Mixed tech would also massively narrow the number of functional chassis, as we'd cheerfully take the best of both worlds. Quirks would vanish, for obvious reasons.