216 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Joey Tankblaster, on 10 October 2017 - 12:41 AM, said:

A brawler locking up his target to find the damaged section, passively passing this information to a LURM-boat sitting 600m behind him - this has nothing to do with teamplay.

To be fair, sending LRMs your brawl-partner's way is advantageous, or just people hiding away, LRMs their way is a bad day that would either suppress or somewhat compromise their survival, or put a snag on their plans. It's extra DPS chipping away their armor that could make or break a kill via holes in their armor.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 October 2017 - 12:51 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Lupis Volk, on 10 October 2017 - 12:42 AM, said:

So pressing R isn't teamplay? Riiiight.

But the idea of passing exact target info, and showing that there are targets are separate things, the LRM guy should be made aware on minimap etc that there are targets fighting (unless obscured by ECM or whatever), but not necessarily exact target conditions etc.

[Joey Tankblaster]

The6thMessenger, on 10 October 2017 - 12:46 AM, said:

To be fair, sending LRMs your brawl-partner's way is advantageous, it's extra DPS chipping away their armor that could make or break a kill.

To be fair, all the brawler wants in that specific situation is his team faithfully next to him sharing armour so that he can wreck havoc. The buddy lock feature encourages cowardness (e.g. not to share armour).

Edited by Joey Tankblaster, 10 October 2017 - 12:52 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Joey Tankblaster, on 10 October 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

To be fair, all the brawler wants in that specific situation is his team faithfully next to him sharing armour so that he can wreck havoc. The buddy lock feature encourages cowardness (e.g. not to share armour).

Would you call all lights cowards? There's bravery, and then there's stupidity. Sure not sharing armor is a **** thing to do, but then when is it okay to share or keep armor? What good is sharing armor if you're a light that barely has armor? What's good about sharing armor, when it's just a punishment to poor positioning than actual meaningful trades?

Sure, indirect-fire would encourage bad play, but just removing it hurts good play employed by indirect fire. Wouldn't it stand to reason to just have rewards proportional to skills so that they don't become parasitic, so they are forced to actually play properly to be rewarded? To actually improve themselves so they get good results. Removing the possibility of indirect fire is just heavy-handed.

You blame the man, not the tools. The person misspells, not the pencil. They are potatoes, if they're dumb enough not to share armor in an LRMs, so would they with direct-fire-weapons, even worse they would probably just hide without actually sending shells or beams to enemies. After all they picked LRMs precisely so they could lob from safety.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 October 2017 - 01:09 AM.

[Escef]

Joey Tankblaster, on 10 October 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

To be fair, all the brawler wants in that specific situation is his team faithfully next to him sharing armour so that he can wreck havoc. The buddy lock feature encourages cowardness (e.g. not to share armour).

Share armor. Share armor. Share armor. Blah, blah, blah. Share armor? Seriously?

Let me tell everybody something you have hopefully already noticed: Armor doesn't kill mechs, weapons do.

At least until a version of the game comes along that lets you tear a plate of armor off your own mech and beat down another mech with it, like a pro wrestler with a folding chair.

Given what I've seen in the solo queue? I will take a badly kitted and poorly played LRM boat on my team that at least throws missiles at enemies any day over a perfectly built brawler or sniper that fails to engage the enemy. I don't care if you share armor, so long as you share firepower.

[Joey Tankblaster]

The6thMessenger, on 10 October 2017 - 01:04 AM, said:

Would you call all lights cowards? There's bravery, and then there's stupidity. Sure not sharing armor is a **** thing to do, but then when is it okay to share or keep armor? What good is sharing armor if you're a light that barely has armor? What's good about sharing armor, when it's just a punishment to poor positioning than actual meaningful trades?

Sure, indirect-fire would encourage bad play, but just removing it hurts good play employed by indirect fire. Wouldn't it stand to reason to just have rewards proportional to skills so that they don't become parasitic, so they are forced to actually play properly to be rewarded? To actually improve themselves so they get good results. Removing the possibility of indirect fire is just heavy-handed.

A lights purpose is obviously not to share his armour but to bring battlefield information to his team, distract heavy mechs by harassing them, capping, counter light operations or backstabbing assault mechs.

Quote

You blame the man, not the tools. The person misspells, not the pencil. They are potatoes, if they're dumb enough not to share armor in an LRMs, so would they with direct-fire-weapons, even worse they would probably just hide without actually sending shells or beams to enemies. After all they picked LRMs precisely so they could lob from safety.

This is probably true. But you can encourage even the dumbest potato by using VOIP and taking command of the match.
The typical LURMER, however, is eaten up by good light pilot very early in the match (no help), or is the last one to die.

I would like to see a MW2 style LRM mechanic. Very fast missile, flat trajectory. Basically a guided long range SRM.

[The6thMessenger]

Joey Tankblaster, on 10 October 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

A lights purpose is obviously not to share his armour but to bring battlefield information to his team, distract heavy mechs by harassing them, capping, counter light operations or backstabbing assault mechs.

Not necessarily, their role depends on how they are built. I mean who scouts with an Urbanmech or Adder with the speed it doesn't have to quickly engage and disengage? It's more likely that they would become fire-support lights instead.

Joey Tankblaster, on 10 October 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

This is probably true. But you can encourage even the dumbest potato by using VOIP and taking command of the match.

Sure, but compare that to a guy that you didn't need to shout to just to lob missiles to the enemy.

And then, so what? You could do the same with the LRM guy, cause you can also encourage them to play better, to lurm closer and with the team. Why is this so special?

Lastly, what if he doesn't man up? Just as if the LRM guys don't kept their **** together?

Joey Tankblaster, on 10 October 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

The typical LURMER, however, is eaten up by good light pilot very early in the match (no help), or is the last one to die.

And let that be a lesson to "typical lumers", proper lurming is supporting the team, coordinating with the team, and being with the team sharing armor. Removing direct fire to spite those parasites is just hurting those proper lurmers who doesn't deserve it.

Joey Tankblaster, on 10 October 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

I would like to see a MW2 style LRM mechanic. Very fast missile, flat trajectory. Basically a guided long range SRM.

That would be nice, but only when you have LOS.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 October 2017 - 01:52 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

What is it? A sudden meta shift? Guess I missed the patchnote where lurms became so good that people call for nerfs.

[H I A S]

Escef, on 10 October 2017 - 01:10 AM, said:

Share armor. Share armor. Share armor. Blah, blah, blah. Share armor? Seriously?

Let me tell everybody something you have hopefully already noticed: Armor doesn't kill mechs, weapons do.

At least until a version of the game comes along that lets you tear a plate of armor off your own mech and beat down another mech with it, like a pro wrestler with a folding chair.

Given what I've seen in the solo queue? I will take a badly kitted and poorly played LRM boat on my team that at least throws missiles at enemies any day over a perfectly built brawler or sniper that fails to engage the enemy. I don't care if you share armor, so long as you share firepower.

Dude, you haven't grasp the basics of MWO yet.
One thing is to be bad at shooting robots. Another thing is a gamemechanic promoting bad behaviore.

[Kotzi]

Well that happens almost every week. And each time alternative facts serve as fundamental examples.

[Davegt27]

I was thinking of another idea to make the IS CC (command console) more useful/desirable

that is have it give multiple target lock (3) for the team out to 1000 meters

[Escef]

H I A S, on 10 October 2017 - 01:50 AM, said:

Dude, you haven't grasp the basics of MWO yet.
One thing is to be bad at shooting robots. Another thing is a gamemechanic promoting bad behaviore.

Yeah, you're right, silly me, armor totally kills mechs. In fact, I should strip guns for more armor, so I can kill more efficiently... smdh

[Xiphias]

Escef, on 10 October 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

Streaks don't instantly lock on. And a fresh Locust can facetank 36 Streaks and run away. Don't tell me it can't, because I've seen it happen a few times. Just yesterday I was tooling around in a Streak24 Griffin and it took me at least 4 volleys to drop a Cheetah. That's almost a full ton of ammo, plus weapons recycling 3 times, plus time to reacquire missile lock at least once while we were dancing around. Plus the damage I took from the Cheetah, plus the damage from the brawler Timby that tried to save him. (Thankfully, any LRM assets his team had weren't focused on me.)

This myth about how Streaks hard-counter lights just doesn't go away, for some reason. Tell you what, load up a mech with Streaks and hit the testing grounds, tell me how many volleys it takes you to drop stock lights.

I know streaks don't instantly lock on. Instant lock on was referring to your example when they were already locked on from a friendly lock, hence "instant" lock on.

Sure, a fresh Locust can survive one 36 streak alpha if it gets lucky and run away nearly crippled. A Locust has a total of 207 HP (including head, not counting quirks or skill tree). A 36 streak alpha does 72 damage, that's roughly 35% of its total health in a single homing shot. The equivalent amount of damage on an Atlas would be roughly 322 points of damage. I'm sorry Locusts don't just instantly die every time someone with streaks shoot at them.

I don't think you grasp what a hard counter is. Streaks can easily 1-2 shot light mechs depending on where they hit them. If you try to torso twist in a light it actually makes the streaks cluster up. Sure, it took you 4 whole volleys with streak 24 mech to kill a Cheetah. I'm sure it was probably wrecked and mostly combat ineffective before the 4 volley though.

The point isn't that streaks always kill light mechs. The point is that there is no way a light mech can go toe-to-toe with a half competent streakboat and live. Try it sometime and see how it works out. Two alphas from a streak mech is enough damage to either kill a light mech outright or to damage it severely making easy to kill with literally any weapon in the game. You basically can't dodge them and they require next to no skill to use. The counter as a light mech is usually just to be careful enough to avoid them or to run weapons that outrange them. Yes, they are a hard counter to light mechs, they just aren't an instant win button.

Tell me, what does it take to be a hard counter in your mind?

[H I A S]

Escef, on 10 October 2017 - 02:10 AM, said:

Yeah, you're right, silly me, armor totally kills mechs. In fact, I should strip guns for more armor, so I can kill more efficiently... smdh

Thats why your WR is so awsome? It would be nice if you teach me how to play MWO properly.

[Escef]

H I A S, on 10 October 2017 - 02:53 AM, said:

Thats why your WR is so awsome? It would be nice if you teach me how to play MWO properly.

Obviously I don't know how to play. Teach me your ways of defeating a foe with armor and no weapons, O Wise One.

[Escef]

Xiphias, on 10 October 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

Two alphas from a streak mech is enough damage to either kill a light mech outright or to damage it severely making easy to kill with literally any weapon in the game.

Two Alphas of 36 Streaks is barely enough to reliably strip the armor from the side torsos of a Cheetah, without skill tree bonuses.

I would put a decent Arctic Cheetah pilot against an equally skilled StreakCrow or StreakDog pilot and put my money on the Cheetah. Every. Time.

I have too frequently seen Streaks fail to perform as you advertise to place any stock in your words.

[Joey Tankblaster]

Maybe you can discuss this interesting issue in a separate topic named "nerf lights to buff streak-boats"?

[Lugin]

ThatNumbGuy, on 10 October 2017 - 12:35 AM, said:

Now, as for PGI's shared sensors system, I feel it functions like a spliced combination of both TT indirect (free for everybody but LOS only, and multiple friendly mechs can indirectly attack one target just like direct fire attacks) and TT C3 rules (why ECM has/had some of the effects it does/did with friendly mechs and personal sensors, as one example)

MWO ECM is called the Jesus Box for a reason.

[H I A S]

Escef, on 10 October 2017 - 03:46 AM, said:

Obviously I don't know how to play.

Agree.

Quote

Teach me your ways of defeating a foe with armor and no weapons, O Wise One.

Hyperbole for the win. lol

[Kotzi]

Quote

The point isn't that streaks always kill light mechs. The point is that there is no way a light mech can go toe-to-toe with a half competent streakboat and live.

That is true with almost any weapons. Pilots skills enhances this.