73 replies to this topic

[Athom83]

gooddragon2, on 10 October 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

I think you should get kill assist if you didn't already and a special category of kill for the one who dealt most damage.

You do get an assist, and a KMDD if you did the most damage to them.

gooddragon2, on 10 October 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Not full value because you didn't kill it, but like 90% of the value.

Assists and KMDDs already have a value.

gooddragon2, on 10 October 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Also, there should be a special option to set your mech to detonate if you want to (probably because you have no weapons left).

No. Very abusable and trolling will happen frequently.

[Scout Derek]

Athom83, on 10 October 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

No. Very abusable and trolling will happen frequently.

Agreed on this. Essentially you troll people by denying them the kill that they earned.

Just imagine; a Annihilator suicides itself after you stripped it of all its armor by yourself, only to watch in anger and distaste that they suicide.

That in my opinion is wrong, and spits in the face of multiplayer games.

Don't even bring faction play into this; you get more than one mech to use, and not only this, but there's a timer for it too.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 10 October 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

Yeah, great argument. Next time my team is falling like leaves around me, I'm just gonna go afk and make myself some coffee to not disrupt the enemy team from getting their hard earned C-Bills and XP rewards from my soon-to-be smoking corpse.

I'm not telling you to just curl up into a ball and kiss your butt good-bye. I'm telling you there's no sense in depriving the other guy of his reward if you blow up yourself up trying to go down swinging. Heck, my proposal would even benefit you, as it wouldn't be counted a suicide to go out in a blaze of glory trying to get that last enemy. The other guy gets rewarded, and you don't get penalized. It's a win-win, relatively speaking.

Prof RJ Gumby, on 10 October 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

You seem very symphatetic towards the people on the winning team, not so much for those on the loosing one. It's ok and fair for me to end up a meat to be grinded because my team died like flies? Then it's also fair for you to get the kill only if you can secure it. You didn't kill me, you don't get the kill. Nuff said. You want that kill, earn it. And don't play innocent victim because you were on the winning side and couldn't kill stuff. You pretty much CAN kill an overheating mech, if you can't do it, git gud

Again, it's not a goddamn "git gud" scenario. I have no control over what parts of your mech get hit with overheat damage or not. It's completely random. If I land a full alpha in your CT that brings it to 1 health, and overheat damage takes it down to 0 before my weapons recharge, am I somehow less skilled? Would waiting half a second for the heat to randomly damage the correct component further have been a more skillful play? Of course not. So why am I punished for trying to kill you as quickly and efficiently as possible?

And it's not even a winning/losing team divide. Overheat deaths happen in winning teams too. Why are you so pre-occupied with being the loser anyway?

Prof RJ Gumby, on 10 October 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

This game is very lopsided. It's totally a team-based game, but still 90% of matches are pug matches with random people and random amount or lack of teamwork. Stomps happen all the time, also as a consequence of the game mechanics. There is no "leveling factors" that would make the battles more equal, quite the opposite - some 2 assaults from your team decided to run straight into the enemy formation - you probably already lost, even though the remaining 10 people on your team didn't even got the chance to engage the enemy. No respawns or healing or anything to prevent the game from becoming a stomp from that moment. That last effort you can do with overheating while jumping the enemy team as the last man standing is that only little balancing factor we got in this game when a stomp occurs. You still can kill something and NOT get killed in return.

The imbalance in teams is not even remotely related to whether or not someone should get kill credit for certain suicide deaths. It's completely irrelevant to the discussion.

[gooddragon2]

Scout Derek, on 10 October 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

Agreed on this. Essentially you troll people by denying them the kill that they earned.

Just imagine; a Annihilator suicides itself after you stripped it of all its armor by yourself, only to watch in anger and distaste that they suicide.

That in my opinion is wrong, and spits in the face of multiplayer games.

Don't even bring faction play into this; you get more than one mech to use, and not only this, but there's a timer for it too.

I was initially thinking of it as something you could do if you run out of ammo, but I can see this being a problem.

Imagine if LAMS could be used as a weapon though. Pretty rare case, but my SNV-1 has one and if my arms got shot off that would be nice to use.

Edited by gooddragon2, 10 October 2017 - 03:55 PM.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

people would make troll accounts simply to die and explode in trial mechs. It would create way more problems than any positive.

[arcana75]

If a suicide either by ejecting or overheating still rewards you an assist and KMDD, then I say leave it alone. If a SWAT team surrounds a bad guy and he takes his own life, the SWAT team can't say it's a kill right? At the very most, instead of a Kill Assist and Kill Most Damage Dealt, just have 2 new ones called Death Assist and Death Most Damage Dealt and have the same cb/xp rewards, but it needlessly complicates things.

[Shifty McSwift]

arcana75, on 10 October 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

If a suicide either by ejecting or overheating still rewards you an assist and KMDD

It does.

arcana75, on 10 October 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

If a SWAT team surrounds a bad guy and he takes his own life, the SWAT team can't say it's a kill right?

Well that was a weird thing to say...

Aside form whatever the heck that means, there should be an exception to death by overheat and that is flamers. They should have some kind of tag where if a target melts down while being flamed or shortly after the flamer damaging mech gets the actual kill.

[James Argent]

But flamers can never by themselves cause another mech to overheat. I ran around for two full minutes with a flamer Nova on me during headshot day, and because I never fired the whole time he never caused me to overheat. I'm pretty sure he overheated himself, but not me.

[arcana75]

Funny thing though, the other day I was overheating on my Urbie and I had a laser AMS on, and didn't know how to shut it off. LRMs kept coming in and while they weren't aimed at me, my LAMS was still firing, and because I had override on and didn't turn it off, I died from overheat, damage report said ammo explosion in CT.

Now... in this case, is the death a kill? It definitely was, indirectly.

[Scout Derek]

Mechwarrior1441491, on 10 October 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

people would make troll accounts simply to die and explode in trial mechs. It would create way more problems than any positive.

Suicide > Teamkillers IMO

[Kroete]

Kaeb Odellas, on 10 October 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

That's fine and all, but do not you think that guy should get some credit for your death if your last-ditch effort caused you to blow yourself up? After all, it was his presence that caused you to mash the override key.

And if he has hit the override too, he maybe has killed me before my override-explosion.

Its it worth to risk your 60+% mech to kill a -30% mech to "secure" that kill?
Then override too!
Risk and reward.

Edited by Kroete, 11 October 2017 - 12:54 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Kaeb Odellas, on 10 October 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

I'm not telling you to just curl up into a ball and kiss your butt good-bye. I'm telling you there's no sense in depriving the other guy of his reward if you blow up yourself up trying to go down swinging. Heck, my proposal would even benefit you, as it wouldn't be counted a suicide to go out in a blaze of glory trying to get that last enemy. The other guy gets rewarded, and you don't get penalized. It's a win-win, relatively speaking.

It wouldn't benefit me, I want my enemies to earn their kills, just as I want to earn mine

Kaeb Odellas, on 10 October 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

Again, it's not a goddamn "git gud" scenario. I have no control over what parts of your mech get hit with overheat damage or not. It's completely random. If I land a full alpha in your CT that brings it to 1 health, and overheat damage takes it down to 0 before my weapons recharge, am I somehow less skilled? Would waiting half a second for the heat to randomly damage the correct component further have been a more skillful play? Of course not. So why am I punished for trying to kill you as quickly and efficiently as possible?

You want rewards for trying? What next, participation trophies? Letters of condolences for when your UACs jam in the wrong moment? You may be godlike in this game and you're never be able to always win, just very often and that's ok. Same with killing overheaters. You failed, tough luck. For me, overheat damage is the same random number generator as my teammates, because I have no impact on any of them.

Kaeb Odellas, on 10 October 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

And it's not even a winning/losing team divide. Overheat deaths happen in winning teams too. Why are you so pre-occupied with being the loser anyway?

Because I con't care about people blowing up in the winning team, just as I don't care about care much about bonus rewards for winning, they're not fair anyway, especially in pugs. I sometimes lead to victories in pugs by leading a push, delaying the enemy nascar by luring them into chasing me away from the back of my team's formation, or otherwise extending the loosing fight against superior enemy numbers to buy time for my team to get kills and regroup on the other side of the map, where they have the advantage. In all those situations, securing a win means often a bad score, and that's ok, even though it was a real contribution to the win, not those easy kills my team made because I made sure they will be easy kills.

On the other hand, killing the last enemy is no challange 80% of the time, just a formality (bacause it's 6v1 most of the time), except if you call kill stealing a challange. It usually boils down to who will manage to land that killing blow on the dead meat surrounded by its enemies. If rewards were to be fair in this game, kills made while already having the advantage of numbers should count FOR LESS, because the more advantage you have, the easier it gets, right down to minimal reward for killing the last enemy unless there's also only like 2-3 guys on your side. I wouldn't mind kills awarded for the enemy blowing up mid-game, when the real fight is still on, but that's not what you argue about.

Kaeb Odellas, on 10 October 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

The imbalance in teams is not even remotely related to whether or not someone should get kill credit for certain suicide deaths. It's completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Yes it is. The imbalance dictates the actual effort you need to put in to get that score. You want to take away probably the only balancing tool giving the last guy on the loosing side one single chance to die hard and don't feel powerless, deprived of any actual chance to fight back, because you feel robbed for sometimes not getting full kill rewards for the easiest kill in the game.

You must be blind or pretty convinced to not see it. Powerlessness is the worst thing a player can experience. This is exactly why Faction Play is such a ghost town. The main frustration driving people away from this mode is forcing them to see that the match is lost and their team have no chance to put up a fight 5 minutes into the game, and then focing them to watch themselves being blown up one after another for the next 10 minutes. Apart from that, stomps are just as common if FP and QP.

You want people on the loosing team to be even more powerless and that's bad for the game

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 11 October 2017 - 01:42 AM.

[Dogstar]

Athom83, on 10 October 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

No. Very abusable and trolling will happen frequently.

It would basically be nothing more than a free airstrike located on your mech - a lot of people already fire off airstrikes on their own location if they know they're going to get nuked so it wouldn't have much more impact than that - and would discourage leg humping

[Natred]

Lets keep this on topic. We are not discussing stockpolling aka explosions when you die like in mechwarrior 4.

This is about giving kill credit of mechs that suicide. Hence the name of the fourm post.