66 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Brain Cancer, on 13 October 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

October: Nerf ALL the good things edition notes-

https://mwomercs.com...14132-17oct2017

All of my astonishment on Artemis. In what magical realm did I get to put all my LRMs or even ATMs into a single component even WITH the upgrade and every spread reduction node in the Firepower tree?

SRMs, sure.

The funny thing is that the skill tree only gives you like 5% additional missile spread reduction. The amount of buff that you get for missile spread is not even close to how powerful heat gen, duration, velocity, etc. are.

Speaking of which, velocity nodes got a 50% buff...

Edited by FupDup, 13 October 2017 - 08:41 PM.

[thievingmagpi]

Brain Cancer, on 13 October 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

The only lasers that got left alone were the biggest ones (except for the heavy large). That means the pokesnipers (ERLL) are unmolested, but pretty much everything else is- most laservomit used medium lasers to go with larger ones.

It also, due to the focus on those smaller lasers, pretty much ends up a near universal nerf to lights. Anyone using Artemis SRMs also gets nerfed. Heavy laser builds period become glacial in terms of delivering hits.

the reasoning for this is of course, balancing based on low skill players.

what this does is globally increase face time so the whiners and the potatoes can get a few extra shots in.

[Brain Cancer]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:

Because that's exactly what it is. IS laser builds have less range, less alpha, less DPS, and less sustained output when put into application. Solution? Nerf all the lasers so that there is no relative change! Wahoo!

Honestly, I was eventually expecting them to 1) link large and medium lasers into the same ghost heat family and 2) reduce the GH number on medium-type lasers in general.

Clan HLL + ERML/HML would have neatly been cooked because alphaing with any Clan large laser would have triggered GH limits of two. IS LL comboblasts would trigger at 3+ lasers.

[Bombast]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:

Because that's exactly what it is. IS laser builds have less range, less alpha, less DPS, and less sustained output when put into application. Solution? Nerf all the lasers so that there is no relative change! Wahoo!

Well, that's IS v Clan. But does this even hurt ERLL boaters? Or those 70+ laser alphas? Seems like this hurts brawlers and mechs that use lasers as backups/support weapons more than anything else, and did they really need this?

[FupDup]

Brain Cancer, on 13 October 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

The only lasers that got left alone were the biggest ones (except for the heavy large). That means the pokesnipers (ERLL) are unmolested, but pretty much everything else is- most laservomit used medium lasers to go with larger ones.

It also, due to the focus on those smaller lasers, pretty much ends up a near universal nerf to lights. Anyone using Artemis SRMs also gets nerfed. Heavy laser builds period become glacial in terms of delivering hits.

PGI really doesn't seem to get the idea that short-ranged weapons are kinda sorta supposed to outgun longer ranged weapons even when there is a little bit of a tonnage disparity. Only a really huge tonnage gap should allow the longer ranged guns to have the DPS advantage. The weight gap between medium and large lasers isn't big enough to justify this.

PGI also doesn't realize that there is this magical game mechanic called hardpoints that for the most part prevents people from just super boating small or medium lasers, particularly on the IS side.

Not even the dinky Micro Laser was spared.

Edited by FupDup, 13 October 2017 - 08:39 PM.

[thievingmagpi]

I was all ready to dish out some money to buy packs in order to get that sweet jumpbacker.

Hell no. Not anymore.

[Y E O N N E]

Brain Cancer, on 13 October 2017 - 08:33 PM, said:

Honestly, I was eventually expecting them to 1) link large and medium lasers into the same ghost heat family and 2) reduce the GH number on medium-type lasers in general.

Clan HLL + ERML/HML would have neatly been cooked because alphaing with any Clan large laser would have triggered GH limits of two. IS LL comboblasts would trigger at 3+ lasers.

IS combo-blasts aren't anywhere close to being a problem though.

All they had to do, to play it safe, was drop the heat on isERML to between 4 and 4.2, bump LPL back up to 11, and see how it played from there. I guarantee, that would have made a whole world of difference.

Bombast, on 13 October 2017 - 08:34 PM, said:

Well, that's IS v Clan. But does this even hurt ERLL boaters? Or those 70+ laser alphas? Seems like this hurts brawlers and mechs that use lasers as backups/support weapons more than anything else, and did they really need this?

Do ERLL boaters need to get whacked? The only big ERLL problem I noticed is that a cERLL SNV is hilariously better than an ERLL BLR/BNC and that really comes down to range, since both are doing about the same burst. ERLL boats don't tend to take targets down in one or two shots and run hot enough up close that they are fairly easy to overwhelm. They seem fine.

This does nothing to solve the 70+ alphas except make dakka more appealing. Maybe IS using 2x freshly-buffed AC/10 in combo with PPC and HPPC will provide a suitable response given the new laser cool-downs? I dunno. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more mixed or pure ballistics builds.

[Brain Cancer]

Bombast, on 13 October 2017 - 08:34 PM, said:

Well, that's IS v Clan. But does this even hurt ERLL boaters? Or those 70+ laser alphas? Seems like this hurts brawlers and mechs that use lasers as backups/support weapons more than anything else, and did they really need this?

It just slows down how fast the gigadrillbreaker laserblasts can come out. And yeah, it really does a number on my Supernova secondary guns, as the HMLs went from slow to slowest.

Including burn time, my lasers are now so slow that Gauss, the king of slow, have a notably superior rate of fire to a medium-class laser.

[FupDup]

The IS Medium Pulse Laser has a (slightly) slower cooldown time than the Clan Large Pulse Laser now.

Let that sink in for a moment.

Oh, and the Clan ER Small Laser has a noticeably longer cooldown than the Clan ER Large Laser.

All IS medium beams cooldown slower than the IS LPL and LL, and for the ML/ERML they're even slower than the ERLL.

These comparisons get more and more ridiculous as I keep diving into them.

Edited by FupDup, 13 October 2017 - 08:49 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 13 October 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

These comparisons get more and more ridiculous as I keep diving into them.

Can you say, knee-jerk?

[Bombast]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2017 - 08:40 PM, said:

Do ERLL boaters need to get whacked? The only big ERLL problem I noticed is that a cERLL SNV is hilariously better than an ERLL BLR/BNC and that really comes down to range, since both are doing about the same burst. ERLL boats don't tend to take targets down in one or two shots and run hot enough up close that they are fairly easy to overwhelm. They seem fine.

For the ERLLs, I haven't had much of an issue myself. But I've been told they're kind of a problem in FP. Take that for what you will.

FupDup, on 13 October 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

These comparisons get more and more ridiculous as I keep diving into them.

It does seem to be getting a bit silly. I've stopped looking into them - It's a bit depressing.

Time to switch from the Catapult to the Jagermech I think...

[Y E O N N E]

Bombast, on 13 October 2017 - 08:53 PM, said:

For the ERLLs, I haven't had much of an issue myself. But I've been told they're kind of a problem in FP. Take that for what you will.

I mean, that's because FP is ****, notably siege mode which forces everybody through a choke to get blue-beamed to death. The other modes are just down to the map.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2017 - 08:53 PM, said:

Can you say, knee-jerk?

I think it's more likely due to the Balancing Overlord playing too much Spreadsheet Warrior and not enough actual Mechwarrior. The super special theoretical DPS of smalls and mediums doesn't come into play nearly as often as their write-up claims it to.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 13 October 2017 - 08:56 PM, said:

I think it's more likely due to the Balancing Overlord playing too much Spreadsheet Warrior and not enough actual Mechwarrior. The super special theoretical DPS of smalls and mediums doesn't come into play nearly as often as their write-up claims it to.

I play lots of SpreadsheetWarrior. If he's playing too much of that, he must be playing in T5.

[Brain Cancer]

FupDup, on 13 October 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

These comparisons get more and more ridiculous as I keep diving into them.

I'm still trying to figure out how Artemis was so good at making all of the LRMs smash into one location.

Best I can tell, I had to be grateful if most of them hit randomly across the torso, assuming they didn't just hit dirt. ATMs were a mite better, but apparently we can't have nice things other than a secondhand velocity node buff that really benefits ballistics more than anyone else.

[Bombast]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2017 - 08:56 PM, said:

I mean, that's because FP is ****

That would be why I've only heard about it. #QP4Lyfe

[poltergoost]

Have I got this right? ERML now has a longer cooldown than ERLL for both Clan and IS?

And for clan, ERSL has a longer cooldown than ERLL?

wtf!?!?!?

[JediPanther]

and this crap is why I've quit playing the game going back to swtor where I can make some measure of progress and fun. Maybe next year when I've got a better pc I'll see how many more nerfs the is and lights have suffered and perhaps try a srm 2 only oxide.

[SFC174]

This laser nerf is, well, stupid would be too kind. If your weapon design is so bad as to require 30% nerfs in cooldown, whatever data you're gathering to make decisions in the first place is clearly flawed. Alternatively, you just don't know how to interpret the data in the first place. IMO, PGI should be making smaller, more iterative changes. If you think cool down isn't long enough, increase it by 5% and see how it works. If you need more do another 5% next month. Not only will you avoid ping-ponging around the ideal specification, you won't piss off your player base nearly as much.

Then there's the idea that big, bad lasers like the CERLL and CLPL cool down quicker than their smaller brethren. Somehow that mechanic just doesn't fly. I say this with great trepidation because I'm afraid they'll nerf the cooldown on those large lasers too.

Of course, the real result will be that Clan laser boats in particular will actually need fewer heatsinks now (if they could use the weight or slots elsewhere) and peeking and poking will get even worse. Furthermore, the long distance burn downs will continue unabated, so the process of getting close to brawl with the laser boats won't be any easier.

I tend to play about 80% clan, and about half those mechs are laser focused. I'll just have to play the MPL builds more until they undo the ERML nerf. I see a lot more CERPPC play in my future too. All this just after they gave me the omnipods to get my favorite HBRs to 9 energy slots. Oh well, PGI is as PGI does.

[Johnny Z]

Looks like another great update. No new features or anything but good anyway.