26 replies to this topic

[Trashhead]

DISCLAIMER :
Within this post I will talk about the aesthetics of Mechs - how they LOOK, not how they perform - and how this influences my decision to buy or not buy certain mechs.
I do own a wide variety of mechs and do not NEED more - so my reason to buy mechs nowadays is: "Do I like the way it looks?".
A stupid reason, yes.
But I never claimed to be smart.

End of Disclaimer.

Dear PGI, I stopped pre-ordering certain mechs despite really wanting them, for a rather stupid reason:
I do not like the way you designed certain mechs.
You made me like mechs I originally would never have taken another look at - like the Catapult, Urbie, Cicada, Raven, Panther or Centurion - but now you are doing the opposite.
(Please do not consider this a rant, although I actually might spill some salt here and there; but my intention is really to give some feedback.)

It happens mostly with mechs that have a symmetrical design, even hardpoint-wise, but somehow you manage to make them look asymmetrical... in an odd sort of way.
And I am not talking about mechs like the Centurion or Panther, which are kind of asymmetrical by default. I actually am very fond of the Centurion and Panther, but thats a different story.
(I do have to admit though that I absolutely do not like the truly asymmetrical mechs, like the Thunderbolt or Summoner; but again, this is just how I feel.)

To give an example - the Cicada.
Used to have symmetrical energy-hardpoints in the side-torsos, now it just looks derp:

It just triggers my OCD - can't play this mech anymore.


The Zeus was one of my favorite designs, just by the looks of it.
Alex did his best to match and improve on the original art (and hit the spot right on, methinks).
Then you, PGI, realized, after modeling the mech,... that the arms needed some distance from the torso... and resolved the issue like this:

Mind the gap!.... I do.

(I am not even mentioning the first Catapult redesign, since you actually listened to the community and fixed it - VCR's, anyone?)

Then we got the Panther-Hero, the Katana-Kat.
I actually like the Panther, despite being asymmetrical.
But I was still happy to see you creating an actually symmetrical Panther, and pre-ordered it.
But after seeing what the actual mech will look like, I canceled my Pre-order:

... I would not have minded if the left arm would have been a straight copy of the right arm.
I actually do not understand why you did this, but I do not like it. Sorry.


Anyway, from that point on I stopped pre-ordering.


I would have liked to add the MadCat MKII to my arsenal - despite being a bad Assault-Pilot - but I decided to wait. Especially after noticing that the MadCat MKII-Hero would not have Missile-Pods, and the Concept-Art did not reflect that:





I am happy I did wait, because the MadCat MKII I fell in love with was the table-top miniature, that one on the left side:


I think it is one of the very few cases where the old art is actually better then your take on a mech.
Missile-pods are distorted, arms are just to big (yes, nice for shielding, but again, see the disclaimer), and the Torso just looks... bloated to me.
Thanks, I keep my money again; have plenty of other Assaults I am mediocre at piloting, and if I want to add something to my collection, I only do so if I like it.


Needless to say that I also did not pre-order the Nightstar, although I really really like your take on it. Again, I am happy I didn't, and I am not even talking of the ARM-aggedon (the low angled arms; I have to admit I kinda like the aesthetics a bit better with the arms pointing a bit lower).

No - I am referring to the placement of the side-torso hardpoints at the Nightstars that would feature hardpionts in BOTH side-torsos.
I was expecting hoping for symmetrical mounts. And as they say:
Hope dies last.


But it dies.


Sssooo... I like the Piranha. And I have no idea how one could possibly screw this up.
But I am certain you will find a way.
Again.
I am really torn if I should pre-order it, despite my experience with your customer service, which I had to contact in order to cancel my Katana-Kat pre-order.
That being said: thanks a lot @ GM Patience for dealing with another dissatisfied customer without running amok... me. ;)

Anyway, thanks for reading.
I am not expecting anything to change, since I assume I am the only MWO-Player who buys mechs because he likes the looks, and is very specific about what kind of looks.
I just wanted to get this of my chest.

I apologize for wasting everyones time. -_-


o7


P.S.: I have no idea where I should have posted this, so I put it into General Discussion. Move it into another forum, if necessary.
Or just wait an hour, until it is at page 2. ;)

[Shifty McSwift]

All mechs must be or have potential symmetrical variants because... Potential OCD conflicts... C'mon.

[JediPanther]

A good way to sum up how looks determine whether some one gets a mech. most of the mechs I bought at first because of the look and not the type or placement of weapons on the mechs.

Bummer you canceled the kk. I have most the panthers and the kk is the best one to me at least because it is symmetrical not suffering the gorilla knee weapon arm syndrome the other laser pths have.I also love the camo job on the kk. I've got mine all in yellow and white and it looks great as well as plays great.

Pgi has become a huge let down with the art quality despite alex rocking the concepts when it comes to the 3d models they get hit with the ugly stick. Some times even the animation suffers. Catapults have been my main mech for years so I indeed remember the dark years and 89 page thread of vcrs.

Unless pgi can quit screwing up with the 2d to 3d part of the process of mechs you really can't get excited about mech porn any more or trust their angled screen shots of an alpha. you almost have to wait hours until ngng posts their preview videos to decide if you want to throw your wallet for the mech now or wait 6-8 months for the c-bill and several nerf bat beatings for the mech.

[Rovertoo]

I agree. I like asymetrical mechs, but messing up symetry (or rather, not taking the time to make thing symetrical) is a bit irksome to me too. For things like the nightstar torso weps, I am actually fine with asymetry oddly enough, but for things like the shadow cat and PPCs or cicada missle points (that one I will never ever understand. Makes me run intentionally asymetrical loadouts just to stave off the OCD) I just get pretty bothered. I figure PGI must have a very small team on a very small budget and very short timeframe, because while the models look great, they dont seem to have any ability to revisit past designs and fix little things that would be a huge QOL change. I know there are some mechs that still have the ancient weapon visuals, like the Orion. Animation improvements (the spider has flappy wings! Stuff like that) and repositioned and remodeled weapon slots would be amazing. And Im still waiting for the heavy lasers to have new colors.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Honestly, I'm right there with you. Nightstar cancelled because of the arms (which are now fixed, too late for me, oh well) and that lower LT hardpoint, which is mirrored in the second RT hardpoint found on a single variant. Also, the single CT hardpoint isn't centred and no variant has more than a single CT hardpoint...

Aesthetics matter, at least for some of us.

[Edit] I say this as someone who bought the Shard and Rainbow Crow Hero 'mechs purely for the camo and the Esprit De Corps Hero for both the camo and ability to have symmetrical Ballistic torsos. [/Edit]

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 16 October 2017 - 03:35 PM.

[Tordin]

No... The Panthers should all have copied the LEFT arm to the right.
I was very happy that the left arm for the Panther hero got the hardpoint placements it did. Why the hell would you want so low mounted hardpoints for both arms? True to lore/ old concept? yes that I understand, OCD, yes to that to. Hampering the gameplay for yourself so long it looks like the concept? No.
Alot of lefties at PGI. But judging by mindnumbing oversights regarding the Novas angled left arm, the Nightstars low left hardpoints. Its nice to see at least a lone Panther hero got the left arm correct for better perforcmance.

[El Bandito]

So glad I do not suffer from OCD--sounds like a hassle. I do have Trypophobia though, and that Zeus missile arm is jarring to look at.

[EAP10]

I miss that old cicada weapon modeling. I know it was old and stuff but it fit well with the rest of the mech.

[Bud Crue]

Trashhead...that was beautiful. Just a nice breakdown of a lot of design...well...goofiness. Good eye, and good commentary. Much appreciated.

And PGI...you've clearly stopped giving a damn about CW. Balance is out the window. All you have left to keep us buying is the mechporn. So lets get back to at least making god looking mechs hmm? Maybe even make the in game models look at least similar to what you initially advertise? Too much to ask? Come now, you've always been an art house before a dev, at least in this one area perhaps you should stick with what we KNOW you can do? Just a thought.

[Felbombling]

I think the new arm placement on the Nightstar looks silly compared to the downward angles PGI used, but I guess it is more functional for hill humping.

[MustrumRidcully]

I don't mind assymetrical mechs, but the assymetry must have some "sense". A different weaopn loadout for example. The Atlas or the Hunchback 4G make sense to me.

But the Night Star is really a perfect example of a senseless asymmetry. Why would any mech designer get the idea to take a mech that looks perfectly symmetrical and then put two identical weapons in the mech, one on the lef,t one of the right side, and put them at different heights? THere is absolutely nothing to be gained here!

[Paigan]

I preordered the Gladiator pack, the Kodiak, the Marauder IIC and probably some others I don't remember.
Back then, the Mechs were nice additions to the game, both aesthetically and gamemechanically.
But at some point (maybe with the ugly AF Bushwacker), new Mechs became more and more just redundant reskins with minor modifications and they tend to get uglier and uglier with every Mech.

Why spend money on them?

PGI pursues a business strategy that actively works on making itself obsolete: producing and marketing the same stuff over and over.
I bet that I am not the only one and that fewer and fewer people buy the ugly reskins - or drop out of the game altogether.

They need to start producing more real content. Game design and coding of features. Not just more player avatars. Especially not ugly ones.
If they have a lot of code that nobody understands anymore, they have to rewrite it. No way around that.
We have more than enough Mechs, already. Time for some more game.

Edited by Paigan, 29 October 2017 - 11:13 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

What I also don't like is the Night Star paint. Instead of using the metallic sheen other newer mechs used, they use the ugly washed out jeans look. Meh.

[N0ni]

I remember when we got the Summoner F(L) with one arm having an upper slot ballistic and the other was lower slot.

i was like

I hope they don't do that to the reward Victor coming up, while it won't be my first Victor (Victor challenge years ago for the 9S(C), eventually sold it because i hated it) i do hope it doesn't look like a 5 year old picked out where the hardpoints are.

I also sincerely hope they don't ruin the Hellspawn either.

[Khobai]

I like it when hardpoints arnt symmetrical

because I get to see all the crybabies whine about it

[Deathlike]

MustrumRidcully, on 29 October 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

I don't mind assymetrical mechs, but the assymetry must have some "sense". A different weaopn loadout for example. The Atlas or the Hunchback 4G make sense to me.

But the Night Star is really a perfect example of a senseless asymmetry. Why would any mech designer get the idea to take a mech that looks perfectly symmetrical and then put two identical weapons in the mech, one on the lef,t one of the right side, and put them at different heights? THere is absolutely nothing to be gained here!

Occasionally PGI decides to get cute with it for some new mech variant (hero or not)... regardless of the reason (usually money), it's the little details that do get people reacting. Up to a point, asymmetry where it makes no sense can be an eyesore.

[Dimzi]

Based on your observations of asymmetrical design plus the trend of exaggerated side torso launchers, I believe I have accurately represented the in-game hardpoint assignment for the Pirahna.

[Jun Watarase]

OP : Protip : PGI doesnt get feedback from their forums. They get it from Russ's twitter. Sometimes. If Russ likes you enough to read your tweet.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 29 October 2017 - 09:05 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Everyone would preorder a Sting, Wasp, Valkyrie! Really. https://static.mwomercs.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png I hope so anyway. https://static.mwomercs.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png

Ok but they need to give the Inner Sphere a proper arm energy weapon though. (Think auto lazer, OMG YES!)

They could make these mechs such a great addition. The very thought increases my hyptitude so I cant sit still in my seat. https://static.mwomercs.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png

Edited by Johnny Z, 30 October 2017 - 12:00 AM.

[Johnny Z]

The reply above totally bugged out, cant edit it.

Everyone would preorder a Sting, Wasp, Valkyrie! Really. I hope so anyway.

Ok but they need to give the Inner Sphere a proper arm energy weapon though. (Think auto lazer, OMG YES!)

They could make these mechs such a great addition. The very thought increases my hyptitude so I cant sit still in my seat.

Also anyone trying to stop the Battletech designs, don't be lame.

Side note, Microsoft get this title in gear, Star Wars is in the toilet, Destiny sucks, Robotech isn't as cool, Star Citizen defines generic... Also add aliens and Aerotech. Thanks.

Edited by Johnny Z, 30 October 2017 - 12:15 AM.