159 replies to this topic

[Pilotasso]

functionality over looks. I rather much have the arms in line with the cockpit. Everyone who thinks otherwise is a low life clanner.

Edited by Pilotasso, 18 October 2017 - 12:31 PM.

[SPNKRGrenth]

Man I am excited to play the Nightstar when it comes out later today, it looks so big and stompy. I can't wait to try out every kind of build I can think of in it, from meta cheese to utterly derp loadouts. Heck I'm even gonna run each one stock without tweaking them a couple of times just for the heck of it.

I do wish there was a toggle for raising and lowering mechs arms though, like opening and closing bay doors only far more useful.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dogstar, on 18 October 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

I don't think you understood what I meant - if they run the patch at 2AM PDT instead of 2PM PDT that wouldn't cause any of the problems you mention. Other than them having to actually schedule something rather than manually trigger it.

Or maybe they do it this way because their only option is to trigger manually - something that pretty much every other software development company has managed to get around...

MischiefSC, on 18 October 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

If I had to launch all the reports I do manually I would spend my lunch breaks shaking kittens.

Auto-scheduler FTW.

scheduler sounds great... except that with all the issue PGI has with patching, actually having staff on hand at patch time is a good idea. And it appears that oftentimes they are literally cramming things in til the last second. So you get your Autoscheduled Patch at 2am PST... and it's malfed up... what do we get... how many hours of tweets and spam complaints before someone is in the office to handle it? And your 2AM patch may be great for you but how about the other 23 timezones? Someone always will be on the short end. Always.

Pilotasso, on 18 October 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

functionality over looks. I rather much have the arms in line with the cockpit. Everyone who thinks otherwise is a low life clanner.

I like your honesty, lol

Hydrocarbon, on 18 October 2017 - 11:56 AM, said:

It's really hard to take you seriously when you impose your opinions upon other people, claiming theirs are nothing short of trash.

You also completely fail to see it's not JUST about arm height, it's about the final product not representing the "bait" - no matter how insignificant the alteration. Ignoring the main reason to harp on another is practically a Staw Man informal fallacy. It's already a statistical given that the mech will be later nerfed if it proves too strong during the paywall period, so giving buyers a hard time for any false start is just silly.

thankfully I''ve never worried about what you thought, so I'll live without your approval.

But hey keep harping on your own strawmen if it makes you feel better.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 October 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

Aesthetics is totally subjective. I see far more people disagree with you on that than agree, on the various Battletech forums and FB pages.

Clearly enough people didn't like the original that they convinced PGI to change it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Stinger554, on 18 October 2017 - 12:24 PM, said:

Ah that makes more sense.

There are still issues though as auto-triggers for stuff like this have been known to fail. For example I run a couple of servers; there is an auto-restart script if those server's fail to restart correctly or that script doesn't run, which has happened I can do nothing about it for 3+ hours as I'm asleep same concept here except the impact is greater.
That's because no one uses my servers in the middle of the night

So while I understand where you are coming from it's better in the long run to manually trigger things like this so that a person can catch errors and fix them ASAP.

Yup. It's not that I want Euros to suffer, or anyone else... it's just simple practical reality, it makes most sense to have patches when your IT staff is actually in the office. Last I checked game companies based in Russia and Seoul don't plane their patches around what is "best for the USA" as a standard order of business. Heck, I am in the CT zone of the USA and those 2 hours difference actually do impact me, because noon my time is very inconvenient, whereas 10am usually fit perfect where I could set the patch to go before heading out the door. (and since my crap internet sometimes needs 3 hrs to download it....)

Now that I am back CT I have to wait til I get home, and unless the patch is small and the Internet Gods friendly, I don't get to play it often til the next day either. It is what it is.

Jay Leon Hart, on 18 October 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

Clearly enough people didn't like the original that they convinced PGI to change it.

And that doesn't bother me.

I just find it funny that people couch it like it will transfer some massive competitive advantage... when the STs are going to likely render it DoA to begin with... whether they have slightly higher arms or not. As such... the players with the skill set to truly, consistently maximize that difference almost universally won't be using it anyhow.

Now if people want to make it about the matching the Concept Art, etc... hey I'm all for it.

Dogstar, on 18 October 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

I think the only presumption is on your part, 'chief'. You seem a lot snarkier than usual.

then you haven't been paying attention.

DAYLEET, on 18 October 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

You're right, with that hitbox the NS need all the help it can get and it starts with weapon placement 25% higher as is shown in your pic. If the red and yellow are one, it is raised by 25% and thats a pretty big fkin deal when we're talking about dual large balistic. I dunno why youre going crazy over this but the change is not trivial.

now if it were 25% higher we'd be cooking with crisco...looks closer to ...5% to me.

And I'm not the one going crazy over it. I am the one laughing at the others going crazy like it's a massive deal breaker from the gameplay side.

Read my OP... it's literally.. DAMN... that went from Fucly to Fuglier.... and the real world advantage is minimal. OK, well have fun with that. The histrionics start outside of that, thanks.

MischiefSC, on 18 October 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

The NGS was never going to be comp. IS tech, hand actuators. Just being IS means it's no competition for MC MKII.

and yet so many of the Saltposts are couched in "competitive advantage, etc".

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 October 2017 - 12:56 PM.

[Nightspectre]

looks as the paint job is based off Van Gogh's Starry Night

[Bishop Steiner]

Nightspectre, on 18 October 2017 - 12:54 PM, said:

looks as the paint job is based off Van Gogh's Starry Night

it is. That is the one thing I like about it, actually

[Jay Leon Hart]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 October 2017 - 12:54 PM, said:

Now if people want to make it about the matching the Concept Art, etc... hey I'm all for it.

That was my primary concern. I'm almost sad they fixed it so soon. I cancelled once the NGNG Twitch stream showed the arms weren't fixed, then mere minutes after receiving my cancellation confirmation from Support, they posted the image with the fixed arms. I just didn't feel like waiting for the fix as long as I still am for the Uziel. Oh well, more money in the bank is always good.

[DAYLEET]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 October 2017 - 12:54 PM, said:

now if it were 25% higher we'd be cooking with crisco...looks closer to ...5% to me.

Well the downtime happened before i could finish my "5%? (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻" and gave me time to approximate better. webplotdigitizer says the red part 81.85 out of 327.41 pixels and thats 24.9992%.It could be 20%, i dont care, IS need any win they can get.


Idealy, the arms of every mech would adjust to wher they need to be when you aim and we could have nice mech.

Edited by DAYLEET, 18 October 2017 - 02:11 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

DAYLEET, on 18 October 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

Well the downtime happened before i could finish my "5%? (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻" and gave me time to approximate better. webplotdigitizer says the red part 81.85 out of 327.41 pixels and thats 24.9992%.It could be 20%, i dont care, IS need any win they can get.


Idealy, the arms of every mech would adjust to wher they need to be when you aim and we could have nice mech.

yeah, Ideally should actuators would matter. Still laugh at that.

Also it's 856 pixels tall according to GIMP, and the red zone has a height of 79 pixels, coming to .092 difference. Especially compared to the 253 pixels (.295) of yellow that has to clear before the Gauss come on line.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 October 2017 - 02:39 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 October 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

Also it's 856 pixels tall according to GIMP, and the red zone has a height of 79 pixels, coming to .092 difference. Especially compared to the 253 pixels (.295) of yellow that has to clear before the Gauss come on line.

I dont know what we're doing differently but Gimp2 said 327 for yellow+red and 84 just the red. The whole image is 1872x984.

[Bishop Steiner]

DAYLEET, on 18 October 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

I dont know what we're doing differently but Gimp2 said 327 for yellow+red and 84 just the red. The whole image is 1872x984.

I'm taking a straight line measure using the vertical pixel maker from the top of the intakes to the toes. That is 856 pixels. Then I am likewise taking straight line vertical measures of the yellow and red areas and dividing them by 856 to get the percentage.

the Width is totally inconsequential to this aspect of the discussion. As is the total image size. Only the Pixel height of the mech and colored zones themselves. But even just by eye it should be apparent one can stack 10-11 of the redzones on top of each other in the height of the Mech itself.... whereas you are somehow saying that that red zone somehow accounts for 1/4-1/5 of the height of the entire mech.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 October 2017 - 03:13 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 October 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

I'm taking a straight line measure using the vertical pixel maker from the top of the intakes to the toes. That is 856 pixels. ...whereas you are somehow saying that that red zone somehow accounts for 1/4-1/5 of the height of the entire mech.

Theres the problem and no. The red zone is 25% of the yellow+the red. The lower mech is irrelevant in this case because the gauss werent at toe level. In effect, the gauss got raised by 25% of the remaining mech above the line.

Edited by DAYLEET, 18 October 2017 - 03:48 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Pilotasso, on 18 October 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

functionality over looks. I rather much have the arms in line with the cockpit. Everyone who thinks otherwise is a low life clanner.

Ok function over looks sure. What about Convergence? Those very widely placed arms totally destroy the convergence? Corner peeking? We now have have those arms sticking out much father your taking fire much sooner than you would with them angled down plus it takes longer corner exposure for your cockpit to allow you to "See so you can shoot" since that is what everyone was complaining about with the lowered arms.

Seriously, the Marauder IIC is a prime example, its weapons were as low or lower than when the angled arm version of the Nightstar had going for it, yet it is considered a powerhouse and one of the big reason it is considered one is that its weapons placement are very tight allowing for great convergence. It also offers a very compact package which made it easy to shoot and maneuver around the other mechs on your team and can move in very tight confines.

By moving the arms up, sure you get to fire a 1/2 second before you would have with the arms down and might have to expose an extra 5-10% of your mech to do so but now you have a huge side-to-side profile that is going to get hung up on everything, weapons so far apart that the convergence is going to be crap, weapons that are going to be shooting into your own teams back as everyone tries to use everyone else for cover or generally much worse overall "Functionally". But hey, you can hill hump about 5% better now, go, go, you.

[Bishop Steiner]

DAYLEET, on 18 October 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

Theres the problem and no. The red zone is 25% of the yellow+the red. The lower mech is irrelevant in this case because the gauss werent at toe level. In effect, the gauss got raised by 25% of the remaining mech above the line.

OK, got it. Yeah I was comparing it to the total amount gained, now I see what you are saying. Still the fact that even now a 1/3 of the mech is exposed... *SMH*

[Gas Guzzler]

So is it any good or what?

[Bombast]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 October 2017 - 05:15 PM, said:

So is it any good or what?

LB-40X, Dual SNPPC seems to work well enough.

[FLG 01]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 October 2017 - 05:15 PM, said:

So is it any good or what?

First impression: good at mid-range engagements, relatively weak in a brawl (ST vulnerability imo). Definitely needs some offensive quirks, not much but some.
And it needs to lose the hand actuators. They limit the builds more than I had anticipated. It's not a crippling flaw, but extremely annoying.

Oh, and I like the straight arms. A lot...

[Gas Guzzler]

Bombast, on 18 October 2017 - 05:16 PM, said:

LB-40X, Dual SNPPC seems to work well enough.

#NotMyStyle :/

Anything mid range?

[BrunoSSace]

Does look very attractive if I do say so my self. Can't wait for c-bill release