106 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Correct. But if you are dropship diving in ecm lights, the stormcrow isn't gonna get you anyways. The SSRM range is more limiting than the speed of the mech in scouting mode.

still has a better chance than the huntsman though

[Lykaon]

Mechrophilia, on 28 October 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

You'd probably regret it.

Maybe not.

My understanding is that the real issue witht he Stormcrow in scouting was the streakboating "skillcrows".

since then we have had two important changes.

Artemis no longer grants a benefit to streak locking dispite not actually being assigned to the mech's tonnage or crit slots (just purchased as a chassis upgrade used to be enough to get the artemis locking bonuses)

Locking arc reduced from 45% to 20%. making the retention of fast and agile targets more difficult for streak armed mechs.


The other common light mech killer was a small pulse boat and those got nerfed as well and recently other light laser weapons got nerfed...

so maybe the underlaying issues are deminished enough to consider the Stormcrow again.

[Troa Barton]

I also see no reason anymore that the clan can't use 55 tonners in scouting. Like many I would likely still use the huntsman. Playing as both clan and IS in scouting from personal experience its a cake walk as IS and fun but very difficult as clan.
This clan VS clan event was interesting. Its so much easier to defeat other clanners when you're used to chewing through the armor of things like the bushwhacker, Assassin, and the Kintaro.

[GoatHILL]

The main thing the SCR had was speed. Then it was firepower. They would eat the slow BSWs alive.

As an IS player I see way too many IS players in mechs in 75-85kph range. If you aren't going 100kph in scouting you are too slow.

[Vonbach]

Racerxintegra2k, on 28 October 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

What can a Stormcrow do that a Bushwacker and Assassin cant ?

Liquefy IS mechs instantly. The skillcrow was removed for a reason.

[Pariah Devalis]

Vonbach, on 28 October 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

Liquefy IS mechs instantly. The skillcrow was removed for a reason.

Clarify please. It has less firepower than a Huntsman, some Arctic Wolves, some Hunchbacks, some Novas. Has less speed than Arctic Wolves, Shadow Cats, Ice Ferrets. Has large, easily focused legs. Has no jump capability.

*Yes, I am ignoring that the Viper exists. Poor mech....

I want a logical answer. Not one generated from emotion.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 28 October 2017 - 12:38 PM.

[Vonbach]

Ok typical old scouting match. IS grouped up as best they can with differing speeds. IS spots Clan team all
of them are skillcrows with Ssrms srms or pulse laser spam. Closest IS mech is vaporized instantly.
Next mech gets vaporized. IS mech manages to leg or kill one before they all die. Repeat for months until
nobody will play scouting anymore. Just compare IS alphas to clan alphas to see why.

[Mechrophilia]

Pariah Devalis, on 28 October 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

Why? It is lopsided in scouting in favor of IS. What reason is there for PGI not to balance Invasion and Scouting independently? Especially when it is a change that only targets one mode vs the other.

"Lopsided" might be too strong a descriptor. Huntsmen teams still focus fire my legs off in seconds in many matches.

[Pariah Devalis]

Vonbach, on 28 October 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

Ok typical old scouting match. IS grouped up as best they can with differing speeds. IS spots Clan team all
of them are skillcrows with Ssrms srms or pulse laser spam. Closest IS mech is vaporized instantly.
Next mech gets vaporized. IS mech manages to leg or kill one before they all die. Repeat for months until
nobody will play scouting anymore. Just compare IS alphas to clan alphas to see why.

But... in your scenario, you don't actually prove that the Stormcrow did anything different. Again, the firepower and capabilities of SCR is lower than the other current options. Speed just lets them close range faster. It doesn't do a thing about the maximum range of the weapons they are carrying. It doesn't make the HMN suddenly not the better SSRM or ASRM carrier by virtue of tube counts, convergence, and free pod space. It doesn't suddenly make the Nova any less of a more durable laser slice and dice and - if anything - the situation is worse for the crow comparison there, now, due to the nerfing of SPLas.

This is why I am thinking your argument is based on emotion, and not logic. You are not looking at the current options, and the current capabilities, and the current scenario. You're remembering the butthurt from ages ago when the SCR offered something truly different, and was the superior splat/streakboat.

Was.

And even then, teams of 4xASRM6 Grifs were still blowing legs off of the suckers with relative ease.

Mechrophilia, on 28 October 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

"Lopsided" might be too strong a descriptor. Huntsmen teams still focus fire my legs off in seconds in many matches.

Fair. It is lopsided like Invasion was lopsided in that in the last few events, the bar is basically being locked in 100% in favor of one techline or another.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 28 October 2017 - 01:33 PM.

[R Valentine]

People still play FP? That's your mistake. Just don't play FP and you won't have to deal with crap like this.

[suffocater]

I never had a problem fighting against stormcrows as an IS player and on the clan side now I wish the crow to be back in action against all the wackers.

[Jun Watarase]

The funny thing is the stormcrow will still lose to bushwackers SRM boats in scouting because the bushwacker is so much tougher with better hitboxes.

[Lykaon]

Vonbach, on 28 October 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

Ok typical old scouting match. IS grouped up as best they can with differing speeds. IS spots Clan team all
of them are skillcrows with Ssrms srms or pulse laser spam. Closest IS mech is vaporized instantly.
Next mech gets vaporized. IS mech manages to leg or kill one before they all die. Repeat for months until
nobody will play scouting anymore. Just compare IS alphas to clan alphas to see why.

Streak lock angle has been reduce by more than half.

Small pulse lasers nerfed

ER-medium lasers nerfed

Huntsman is usable now and can utilize identical tactics as you outlined yet...no rivers of tears about the Huntsman?


Speed is of course a difference but...the Huntsman matches a Bushwhacker in speed. and a mainstay of I.S. scouting is Bushies with 300ish engine sizes.

Edited by Lykaon, 28 October 2017 - 03:08 PM.

[InvictusLee]

I'll trade you; I'll give you back my phaket, if you can give me a stormcrow in scouting and make it jump capable.
I much prefer running at 100kph.

[Kuaron]

Racerxintegra2k, on 28 October 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

As an Innersphere loyalist i think clans should get there Stormcrow back in scouting. The IS has a number of competitive mechs in that weight class that can match it now.

Further more i think clans need another 55 Ton mech. What do you guys think ?

Racerxintegra2k, on 28 October 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

As an Innersphere loyalist i think clans should get there Stormcrow back in scouting. The IS has a number of competitive mechs in that weight class that can match it now.

Further more i think clans need another 55 Ton mech. What do you guys think ?

I Agree.
And then, make invasion 12 on 10.

[Mole]

The problem with the Stormcrow in scouting was that is could mount so many SSRMs that it could blow away anything that was not in the heavy or above weightclass and could at the same time be fast enough to keep pace with some lights. It was a real issue and if you don't think it will become an issue again you're out of your mind.

[RaptorRage]

Wouldn't mind the Scouting tonnage back to parity if it also meant the Invaion drop decks would match as well, as part of the reasoning behind keeping the tonnage disparity in Scouting might be the excuse that the Invasion decks are also currently mismatched. Whether that meant keeping the current 55 ton max or doing something that would boost the actual scouting part more than brawling, like making Scouting 35 tons max instead. Also would prefer the Invasion minimum be 80 tons especially after the Piranha is released as some people prefer a full Light Mech dropdeck and having to take a token Assault or larger Heavy just to meet some arbitrary 160 ton minimum seems like a waste of time for those that don't typically run bigger Mechs.

[Dee Eight]

Khobai, on 28 October 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

there was definitely a noticeable change

because the stormcrow was much faster than any of the clan 50 tonners

yes... but the huntsman is a much better scout killer. Plenty fast enough for the role, more agile and carries more firepower than a crow.

Mole, on 28 October 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

The problem with the Stormcrow in scouting was that is could mount so many SSRMs that it could blow away anything that was not in the heavy or above weightclass and could at the same time be fast enough to keep pace with some lights. It was a real issue and if you don't think it will become an issue again you're out of your mind.

The huntsman can carry MORE.... a crow is limited to 30 missile tubes if using SSRMs or SRMs. Any C-bill huntsman can carry as many, PLUS more other weapons. The Hero can carry up to 48 missile tubes.

[Mole]

Dee Eight, on 28 October 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

The huntsman can carry MORE.... a crow is limited to 30 missile tubes if using SSRMs or SRMs. Any C-bill huntsman can carry as many, PLUS more other weapons. The Hero can carry up to 48 missile tubes.

You must have missed the part about the fact that its tubes paired with its speed is what made it so deadly in scouting. SSRMs have a maximum range of 360m which can be easily outranged by many weapon systems available to the IS. Keeping a streakboat at range is how you defeat it unless you're in a heavy or assault that can just tank it. It is leaps and bounds easier to keep something at range that can only move at 80 and change kph than it is to keep something at range that can run at you at well over 100kph. I really wish people would stop trying to use the Huntsman as a posterchild for why streakcrows were not an issue in scouting when they really, truly were.

Edited by Mole, 28 October 2017 - 07:15 PM.

[Keith66AH]

On the stormcrow in scouting... we at the 66th actually do very well in scouting. Even back when the SC was available. The trick to dealing with it was range and ecm. It honestly wasn't a huge problem. 4 SC against 4 Griffin with ecm =4 dead stormcrow. The problem most teams fail to grasp is mech selection. Same goes the other way we dominate scouting 99 out of 100 matches because the opposing team picks garbage mechs with garbage loadouts. Scouting is by far the easiest mode there is.

Now to the truth of the matter that no one who cries balance wants to admit... SCOUTG SOULD BE 5 VS 4!!! WITH IS HAVING HIGHER TONNAGE AVAILABLE THEN THECLANS.

THE BALANCE THAT EVERYONEIS SCREMING ABOUT ISNT IN MECHS ITS IN NUMBERS AND TONNAGE!!!! THAT I WHAT THE LORE BROUGHT!!!!! FACTIONSHOULD BE 12 VS 10 per drop in REGULAR FATION DROPS and 5 VS 4 IN SCOUTING!!!!

CLANS FOUGHT THE BATTLE WITH AS LITTLE TONNAGE AS BID PER THE BATCHAL!!!!!!!!! AND PREFERED TO FIGHT ONE V ONE!!!!

SO if by chance PGI actually reads this one... THAT IS HOW YOU BALANCE FATION!!! Stop screwing with the weapons and nefing mechs.

CLANS SHOULD HAVE BETTER WEAPONS AND SUCH BUT HAVE TO FIGHT WITH FEWER NUMBERS AND LESSER TONNAGE======BALANCE!!!!!

IGNORANCE OF THELORE IS HOW YOU LOST BALANCE. And to all the guys who scream about not being able to enforce clan battle tactics change the reward system to reflect it. CLANS get -points for assists and higher points for solo kills and kmdd. etc....while IS get the opposite etc.... figure it out guys... you run the game and your player base is saying YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!