218 replies to this topic

[KHETTI]

Automated Targeting would be the perfect way to kill the player population overnight, i know i would immediately uninstall.

[Psycho Cop]

Can I buy targeting computers with better pinpoint aim for MC? That would be so nice!

[XX Sulla XX]

This thread is just a troll thread right right it has to be?

[FartSniffer87]

Point and click.

It's not that hard guys.

Edited by TheB33f, 04 November 2017 - 10:37 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

TheB33f, on 04 November 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

Point and click.

It's not that hard guys.

Yep, and it's the problem, too. Point and click and delete section with MAXIMUM EFFOR- I mean ALPHASTRIKE.

[Kin3ticX]

Xiphias, on 01 November 2017 - 07:05 AM, said:

Kill me.

Can we get this person more likes and more likes?

[Little Pencils]

This is a FPS. By taking out aiming skill and replacing it with essentially dice rolls and prioritizing positioning over piloting ability how would the game be any different then Battletech or MechCommander except you don't control the team only your own little worthless chesspiece?

[Y E O N N E]

Going to join the influx of Reddit posters and say:

No.

Also mods? Please lock and jettison. Thanks.

[Ssamout]

How about just remove all shooting and introduce a button you can press that says that "You are a Winner!", and everyone is a happy camper?

[Brain Cancer]

Little Pencils, on 04 November 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

This is a FPS. By taking out aiming skill and replacing it with essentially dice rolls and prioritizing positioning over piloting ability how would the game be any different then Battletech or MechCommander except you don't control the team only your own little worthless chesspiece?

Most of us aren't the OP, but it'd be less Pokewarrior Online if it took more than "line up crosshairs, empty full DPS into single armor section, repeat for XL check" for the optimal weapons in the game, rendering anything that can't automatically second-rate.

[YueFei]

Brain Cancer, on 04 November 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

Yep, and it's the problem, too. Point and click and delete section with MAXIMUM EFFOR- I mean ALPHASTRIKE.

Almost everyone agrees that too much of that can be a problem. But the solution proposed here really defeats the purpose of having a shooter.

Similar proposals with removal of convergence has their downsides, too, and I was among those at one point advocating for it. But those who point out that convergence removal just gives even greater advantages to mechs with favorable / tightly-clustered hardpoint locations are totally correct.

I've been watching some of the better players carefully to see how they manage to spread the damage, and it's not just through torso twisting alone. Their throttles are shimmying up and down simultaneously with leg turning. As I said, when I ran the numbers on some mechs, I was surprised, but I found that their acceleration/deceleration was high enough to juke faster than a shooter's reflexes could keep up with, allowing to spread damage to adjacent hitboxes. To put things in perspective, the Marauder IIC has higher accel/decel than a Tesla that does 0-to-60-mph in 2.4 seconds... and the Marauder is kinda at the sluggish end of the scale as far as the mechs go.

The problem is that the mech models in general are so large, and some mechs in particular got hosed by their geometry, featuring wide hitboxes. And then some mechs get hit by a double-whammy due to crappy hardpoint locations, forcing them to take even longer to expose and shoot, and longer to recover back behind cover.

Clamping down the amount of pinpoint damage an alpha strike can deal is one part of the equation (Ghost heat, while clunky, aims to achieve this). Forcing players to break up their alpha strikes into separate salvos gives time to the player being shot at to make maneuvers so that not all of the damage focuses on the same location.

The other end of the equation is to make sure all mechs have the requisite geometry/hitboxes + agility in order to juke faster than even the best marksmen in the game can react to, at least to spread the hit to adjacent hitboxes. This is why agility matters even for big slow assault mechs with crappy top speeds. Either PGI needs to quirk up the agility for these mechs, or they need to re-do the models to slim down the hitboxes, or some combination of the two. Alternatively, quirk those mechs with extra armor/structure, but as I said, I don't find that as interesting because it doesn't raise the skill ceiling for those mechs.

Edited by YueFei, 04 November 2017 - 02:22 PM.

[Kamikaze Viking]

I spend lots of money on this game and I vote NO.

Anyone still complaining about TTK after all the changes already needs to learn to torso twist.

[Mystere]

Ssamout, on 04 November 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

How about just remove all shooting and introduce a button you can press that says that "You are a Winner!", and everyone is a happy camper?

Nah! I'd rather MWO gets an API that allows you to programatically control the Mech.

Brain Cancer, on 04 November 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

Most of us aren't the OP, but it'd be less Pokewarrior Online if it took more than "line up crosshairs, empty full DPS into a single armor section pixel , repeat for XL check" for the optimal weapons in the game, rendering anything that can't automatically second-rate.

FTFY.

Edited by Mystere, 04 November 2017 - 02:25 PM.

[Mystere]

YueFei, on 04 November 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

Similar proposals with removal of convergence has their downsides, too, and I was among those at one point advocating for it. But those who point out that convergence removal just gives even greater advantages to mechs with favorable / tightly-clustered hardpoint locations are totally correct.

Ah! But considering most of those clusters are on only a single section or two, quickly making a mech lose at least half its weapons/fireporwer becomes an important skill. At the same time, arm-mounted weapons (assuming they have lower arm actuators) become important.

You do want MWO to require more skills, right?

[Mystere]

Kamikaze Viking, on 04 November 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

I spend lots of money on this game and I vote NO.

Anyone still complaining about TTK after all the changes already needs to learn to torso twist.

BOOM, head shot!

<thanks to automatic instant pixel-perfect pinpoint convergence>

Where's your torso twist now?

Edited by Mystere, 04 November 2017 - 02:37 PM.

[PFC Carsten]

Willard Phule, on 01 November 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

Here's the thing, though....if you want to go by "lore" with the HUD and controls, you're going to open a huge kettle of fish. We SHOULD have a "floating crosshair" effect. Basically, you move the X to the target and wait for the circle to catch up with it before firing. The speed at which the circle moves is based on locations of the weapons tied to it.

First off, you'd have an almost 360° of vision compressed into a 180° curved arc before you, made up of visible light, backscatter imaging and thermals.

Then you need to controll your feet, your torso and your arms all at once. You have to fight different environmental influences, you have to suffer from increasing penalties of rising heat instead of continuing at peak efficiency until sudden shutdown.

Willard Phule, on 01 November 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

You want to play with people's "skill"...that's the way to do it. Hold the crosshair on a moving target while moving yourself until the weapon lines up well enough to pull the trigger...and hope your "targeting computer" is accurate. Still gonna be slower than "weapons free" mode.

That'd still be super-ez mode compared to the imagined-real deal.

Curccu, on 02 November 2017 - 02:12 AM, said:

Whether you like it or not but dishing out that 90 point alpha (and hold that beam in same component) and COD sniping are both skills. You may not like those or be good at them but they are still skills.

Picking your nose without hurting someone is also a skill. But is it relevant? Not more than CoD-skills. If you want or have those, go play CoD, it's a fun game I hear, many people enjoy it.

[Curccu]

PFC Carsten, on 04 November 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

Picking your nose without hurting someone is also a skill. But is it relevant? Not more than CoD-skills. If you want or have those, go play CoD, it's a fun game I hear, many people enjoy it.

I don't have to go to play CoD, I enjoy this game and do not want this OPs kind of nonsense to this game.

[Little Pencils]

Brain Cancer, on 04 November 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

Most of us aren't the OP, but it'd be less Pokewarrior Online if it took more than "line up crosshairs, empty full DPS into single armor section, repeat for XL check" for the optimal weapons in the game, rendering anything that can't automatically second-rate.

You give aim far too much credit. You live or die in this game based on positioning and teamwork. Having the best aim in the world doesn't mean a thing if you're caught out by a murderball.

Yes, I get where you're coming from, it can be infuriating having to grind out match after match in the samesy meta builds just to actually contribute to a win but introducing aim spread will do nothing to fix that. If high alpha builds have to get aim spread, everyone has to get it and we just end it that same situation except TTK just takes a little longer. If you're dying to peaking mechs that pump you full of gauss and PPC, it's not because somehow mech aim is too good, it's bad positioning, or what could also be called "being bad at the game". If you want to stand out in the open and trade shots like battleships on land that's your prerogative but not everyone will be comfortable playing that style.

[L0stA1m]

Go and play some rts if you suck at aiming. This kind of threads remaineds me why I stopped playing. The Com is just bad at videogames.

Edited by L0stA1m, 04 November 2017 - 05:05 PM.

[Draven Darkshadow]

there is automated targeting systems in this game... its call SSRMs, ATMs & LRMs.
The obvious thing is that if you do these weapon system only.. YOU WILL NOT IMPROVE..

you may on occasion get high damage when your friendly teammates get locks for you, so it may justify your use of homing or lock weapons but will you really have fun?

anyways a big fat NO on automated targeting system.. and we should in fact increase the spread on lrms/atm & ssrms more

Edited by Draven Darkshadow, 04 November 2017 - 04:46 PM.