164 replies to this topic

[R Valentine]

Light gauss is another case of "DON'T FOLLOW TT RULES FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!!!". I already HATE that they follow TT rules on weapons like LB20-X and heavy gauss when they don't have the systems in place to allow for lore TT builds. If you don't have crit splitting, don't use TT crits. DUH!! I seriously question PGI's collective IQ. Light gauss falls into the same boat because it's only 8 damage for 12 tons using 4 critical slots. Well, that's garbage. There are TONS of things they could do to fix it. Up damage to 10, increase ammo, reduce critical slots, increase velocity, even remove the charge(which they'll never do). But seriously PGI, do SOMETHING. Right now you're ignoring weapons like the LB20-X, heavy gauss, and light gauss like the plague.

[AncientRaig]

FupDup, on 21 November 2017 - 05:19 PM, said:

Cooldown removed? That means that with its current charge time, you could fire off a shot every 0.5 seconds or less. That would actually be quite insane.

I meant charge. Typo. Derp.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

VonBruinwald, on 21 November 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

OR! And I'm being somewhat radical here.

Leave the charging, unlink from PPC ghost heat, increase ammo to 200dmg per ton and finally make them hit scan.

Do that for the entire Gauss rifle family and it'll give them a unique position within the weapon group dynamics. It would make all gauss more viable whilst simultaneously breaking up the Gauss/PPC meta that plagues the two weapons.

Alternatively: Make them armour piercing by giving them a % chance to deal damage to components (e.g. heat sinks) whilst armour is present, with the smaller gauss getting the higher %.

The gauss is soo hated by the potatoes, it has been constantly nerfed over the years... this is not going to happen. They even reduced crit on open mech parts....

[Nomad One]

Light Gauss slot and tonnage requirements are fine, just needs a damage increase to 10 or maybe even 11 damage per shot. Probably 10, if the light gauss still has the increased critical damage and chance over other weapon types. Cooldown can be increased to 3.5 or 3.75 seconds to compensate for the improved damage.

With 10 damage for 1 heat, 5 slots and 12 tons, and increased range over normal gauss, you'd have a viable alternative for mechs like the Nightstar.

[Jackal Noble]

Nomad One, on 23 November 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

Light Gauss slot and tonnage requirements are fine, just needs a damage increase to 10 or maybe even 11 damage per shot. Probably 10, if the light gauss still has the increased critical damage and chance over other weapon types. Cooldown can be increased to 3.5 or 3.75 seconds to compensate for the improved damage.

With 10 damage for 1 heat, 5 slots and 12 tons, and increased range over normal gauss, you'd have a viable alternative for mechs like the Nightstar.

Cept that makes it better than the AC10.

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 23 November 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

Cept that makes it better than the AC10.

Eh, I'm not so sure.

AC/10 got a velocity bump, a heat reduction, and it isn't linked with PPCs. It fires a round every 2.5 seconds, while LGauss would still fire once every 3.75 seconds. LGauss shot also moves too fast to sync with PPCs except the ER, and there's still that aforementioned link.

Basically, LGauss works with lasers better, AC/10 works with PPCs and missiles better.

[stealthraccoon]

No damage increase, keep charge, lower cooldown, increase ammo - that is all.

[panzer1b]

Honestly, if they removed ghost heat, charge up, let you fire as many of them at once as you had on the mech, itd be at least niche useable on some long range assault builds like say quad on a anni or so.

Another option would be to either drastically increase its rate of fire to make the LGR into a DPS weapon (itd have to have a higher DPS then the GR to be practical), or up its damage to 10 so its a lower DPS version of the AC10. As it stands, the AC10 is 100% superior to teh LGR, as it has like twice the DPS, more alfa, and well, its not like the ability to shoot something 1km away is essential on every map...

[Jackal Noble]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 November 2017 - 08:56 AM, said:

Eh, I'm not so sure.

AC/10 got a velocity bump, a heat reduction, and it isn't linked with PPCs. It fires a round every 2.5 seconds, while LGauss would still fire once every 3.75 seconds. LGauss shot also moves too fast to sync with PPCs except the ER, and there's still that aforementioned link.

Basically, LGauss works with lasers better, AC/10 works with PPCs and missiles better.

Oh ya, that's right. Been enjoying that velo quite a bit. Still for whatever reason I think 10 would either be about right or a skosh too stronk.

panzer1b, on 23 November 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

Honestly, if they removed ghost heat, charge up, let you fire as many of them at once as you had on the mech, itd be at least niche useable on some long range assault builds like say quad on a anni or so.

Another option would be to either drastically increase its rate of fire to make the LGR into a DPS weapon (itd have to have a higher DPS then the GR to be practical), or up its damage to 10 so its a lower DPS version of the AC10. As it stands, the AC10 is 100% superior to teh LGR, as it has like twice the DPS, more alfa, and well, its not like the ability to shoot something 1km away is essential on every map...

Lgauss Er large clops, just saying.

[Paigan]

JackalBeast, on 21 November 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

What would be the most rational buff this weapon could get to make that 8 damage for 12 tons more viable outside a few really niche builds? Ie needs to be carried in 2s to even be worth it.

About equal dps as a normal Gauss.
Slightly more damage per ammo ton.
Longer range.
No chargeup (!). edit: thanks to FupDup for correcting me.
Less weight.

This weapon needs no buff. It is good as it is.
If there was a Clan equivalent, I would almost always prefer it over the normal Gauss.

Edited by Paigan, 24 November 2017 - 07:17 AM.

[FupDup]

JackalBeast, on 23 November 2017 - 08:49 AM, said:

Cept that makes it better than the AC10.

That's not completely the buffed LGR's fault though, that's the AC/10's fault for having an identity crisis.

Paigan, on 23 November 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

No chargeup (!).

Stop spreading this lie, the LGR requires 0.5 seconds to charge. It's faster than the normal GR, but faster ain't the same as zero.

And equal DPS as the Gauss? A single AC/2 beats that. The Gauss family is not chosen for DPS, it's chosen for burst damage (alpha strike) and being heatless.

[Athom83]

Make it hitscan PPDF?

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 23 November 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

Oh ya, that's right. Been enjoying that velo quite a bit. Still for whatever reason I think 10 would either be about right or a skosh too stronk.

With no additional changes, I think 10 would be perfect. Alternatively, keep it at 8 and drop cool-down to 2.5-2.55 seconds. That results in the same increase to DPS, but it bents the gun toward full-expose DPS rather than poking. On the 'Mechs that can run the LGauss near 2.5 s through a combination of skill tree and quirks (e.g. JM6-FB and RFL-3C) approach "beginning to be viable" for the weight investment. A JM6-FB with 2x ERLL and 2x LGauss is quite decent at map control.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 23 November 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

That's not completely the buffed LGR's fault though, that's the AC/10's fault for having an identity crisis.


Stop spreading this lie, the LGR requires 0.5 seconds to charge. It's faster than the normal GR, but faster ain't the same as zero.

And equal DPS as the Gauss? A single AC/2 beats that. The Gauss family is not chosen for DPS, it's chosen for burst damage (alpha strike) and being heatless.

DPS is not even equal to standard Gauss;

LGauss is 8 over 3.25 and 0.5, for a DPS of 2.13.

Gauss is 15 over 5 and 0.75, for a DPS of 2.61.

An extra 90 meters of range is very niche when it can't combine with adequate ERPPC and when ERLL don't even match said range.

And the way the weight and slots work out, standard Gauss comes out ahead on both raw damage and sustained DPS every time.

Always better to take Gauss or UAC/2 for long-range work than it is to take LGauss.

[R Valentine]

Paigan, on 23 November 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

About equal dps as a normal Gauss.
Slightly more damage per ammo ton.
Longer range.
No chargeup (!).
Less weight.

This weapon needs no buff. It is good as it is.
If there was a Clan equivalent, I would almost always prefer it over the normal Gauss.

Given that DPS nerfs have had absolutely no effect on the laser vomit meta, I don't know why you'd think a DPS buff would ever affect the Light Gauss one way or the other. It'd still be useless. The game isn't about doing da deeps. It's about trading with dat alpha. It has been for a very long time. Brawlers exist here and there, but since you can't fit your mech to the map, because you know PGI thinks it's OP to know the map ahead of mech selection, you're way better off choosing a generalist laser vomit alpha mech over any brawler where a bad map could screw you. Even if there was, Light Gauss would be a garbage brawling weapon. ANY weapon that has screen shake would destroy your aim during charging, since you want to leave charging in tact, and your weapons don't cause screen shake, so the enemy can blast away. Also, their brawling alphas will still beat yours by a truck load, so it'll take a lot less shots for them to kill you than visa versa.

[East Indy]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 November 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

Been over this in my own thread on the same subject: cool-down to 2.5 seconds. It has potential as a power position tool, but fires too slow to apply adequate pressure. Cool-down to 2.5 seconds gives it comparable DPS to a full Gauss, allowing it to compete in any role where full exposure at long range is the name of the game.

This is the way to do it. If the weapon cost any less than holy mackerel, 80% weight of a standard Gauss, it might be troublesome, but . . . yeah, that's not the case. Increasing damage to 12 and adjusting cooldown/range to make it literally almost-Gauss would be simple, but the plink-plink gameplay of Grid Irons from yore had charm. It also saves us from various flavors of "boating makes everything better."

[Trissila]

What does the light gauss do?

It does mediocre damage at extreme range. Now, let's set aside the fact that it's actually quite bad at this role compared to a number of other weapon options (IS ERPPC, for instance, does 25% more damage for just over half the tonnage/space, travels at nearly the same speed, and doesn't run on ammo). In order to be of any value whatsoever, it would need to compete with these other options, which it could generally do by having a faster refire to take advantage of its near-heat-less operation... but while such changes would at least make it not-garbage, they still wouldn't make it good. And why?

Because the maps simply don't allow for it to shine. Enemies are never forced to be exposed in a manner that would let you take advantage of doing mediocre damage at extreme ranges. At best you might get in one, maybe two shots before they get to cover and then you don't see them again.

Edited by Trissila, 23 November 2017 - 06:41 PM.

[Khobai]

light gauss should be 10 damage, 4.25+0.5 cooldown, 810m/1620m range, and 20 shots/ton

Quote

Cool-down to 2.5 seconds gives it comparable DPS to a full Gauss, allowing it to compete in any role where full exposure at long range is the name of the game.

gauss isnt a dps weapon though. if you want a weapon that does high dps with full exposure at long range, thats what autocannons are for. we have that weapon already. light gauss doesnt need to do more dps because it will never be able to compete with autocannons, nor should it.

what characterizes gauss is high damage per shot, slow rate of fire, extreme range, and low heat. not dps.

light gauss should be for extreme range poking. essentially the ballistic equivalent of the erppc.

Quote

Because the maps simply don't allow for it to shine. Enemies are never forced to be exposed in a manner that would let you take advantage of doing mediocre damage at extreme ranges. At best you might get in one, maybe two shots before they get to cover and then you don't see them again.

the chargeup mechanic is the problem IMO. sniper weapons should be able to snapshot so you can hit enemies the exact second they pop out of cover. no chargeup would make it way easier to hit mechs at extreme range.

other mechwarrior games didnt need chargeup. they balanced gauss by giving it a much longer cooldown than other weapons.

and heavy gauss is never going to compete with a UAC20 as long as it has a 1 second chargeup. heavy gauss needs its charge up removed and its optimum range increased.

Edited by Khobai, 23 November 2017 - 11:32 PM.

[Paigan]

FupDup, on 23 November 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

[...]
Stop spreading this lie, the LGR requires 0.5 seconds to charge. It's faster than the normal GR, but faster ain't the same as zero.
[...]

My bad. I relied on smurfy's and there no chargeup is shown. Seems like he hardcoded it in for the normal Gauss and didn't update it on the new Gauss variants.

Thanks for the hint. Lie-spreading not intentional .


As far as the rest is concerned:
You all ignore things like no heat and considerable range on the light gauss.
If you think the light gauss, with all it's huge advantages, still has to be a high-alpha weapon, just because the normal gauss is one, you are just wrong. And that is objective. Look at the range. Look at the heat. Don't just drag out a AC10 and compare only its weight and alpha to the light gauss. What about heat? What about range?
And don't just compare dps and range to an AC2. 8 damage alpha is A LOT more than 2 or 5 damage.

Look at ALL the stats.

I write it again, maybe at some point, you will get it:
About equal dps as a normal Gauss.
Slightly more damage per ammo ton.
Longer range.
Less weight.

And if you really need it:
MORE alpha damage than an AC2 or AC5
MORE range than any (normal) AC.
(Virtually) NO HEAT.

It's really a good weapon. Don't just compare values you like. Look at all values. If you are capable of properly comparing a couple of numbers, you CANNOT say that it is a bad weapon.

[davoodoo]

Its not like ac10 is massively hot.

2.75 for 10 damage every 2.5s.
So 1.1 hps for 4.0 dps.

While lgauss is 1 heat for 8 damage every 3.75s
so 0.27hps for 2.13 dps.

engine heat sinks alone will deal with dual ac10.