107 replies to this topic

[KingCobra]

TWIAFU, on 05 December 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Then people would complain about 7mans clubbing, teamwork op, and our favorite, sync dropping.

How can you successfully mix teamwork players and non teamwork players in a teamwork focused queue?

A. Remove the ability for teamwork between players.
B. Remove teamwork as a focus of the Queue.
C. Remove non teamwork and teamwork from mixing.

Can't do A. Can't do B. Have to do C. Solo and Group CW players cannot play together or against each other.

It just does not work. Warning is not working. Clubbings on each side is not working. Forums not working. In game it is not working, for either 'side'.

Solo v solo in a solo only queue, CW modes, no planet ownership, no loyality,

Skirmish/Premade only queue, full CW rewards and ownership.

Had the Unit and non Unit split, time for this.

I guess Im not making it clear on what I personally would do for CW/FP before it goes totally belly up as a game mode in MWO or this game dies period.

What Im saying has never been tried in CW/FP and what PGI tried before failed because they implemented the split in CW/FP queues totally wrong. What I would do is make the CW/FP queus

#1 only 8man= 8v8 or 12 man=12v12 organized teams can drop together for there CW/FP battles no pugs or small groups.
#2 only pugs and one 4 man group can drop = one 4 man group on each side and 8 pugs can drop for a CW/FP battle.
#3 if a 4 man group cannot be found for one side of the other fill in with pugs.
#4 leave scouting alone no changes.
#5 leave CW/FP reward system alone or same for group #2
#6 give higher CW/FP rewards to organized 8 or 12 man teams as a compensation for there seal clubbing loss as it is now group #1.
#7 give even higher CW/FP rewards to loyalists that stay with there factions in the 8 or 12 man team mm CW/FP queues for up to 3 months or 6 months.

CW/FP is not that hard to fix it would just require PGI to stick to there guns and make CW/FP fun again for both groups organized teams and PUGS plus we could use some more new players having fun learning the game and paying into its development.

You cant expect players that are consistently seal clubbed to death in CW/FP and totally never having the time in battles QP or CW/FP to learn the game or not uninstall MWO and PGI should be smart enough to understand there losing players and revenue doing what there doing to this game.

Plus there is no Social lobby system for new or other players to unite chat and get information unless its these terrable forums which you cant find anything on most times..

Edited by KingCobra, 05 December 2017 - 05:44 PM.

[thearticulategrunt]

Really my biggest issue, especially with the nerfing of dropships, is the bloody spawn camping. The nerfing of the dropships, the separation of the points, loosing 2 mechs of 4 in a match without being able to fire their weapons once...I've been here long enough to just ignore it but newer players...a lot of them that will be the end of it. Done and gone to a game that does not seem to be elites only in FW/CW and beta leftover quick play.

[Tiewolf]

The idea of FW is great but it suffers from many problems.

1. No chance for all players to participate on their level. All this chit chat about everythings ok just join a unit. Its a lame excuse for sealclubbers. Teamwork is not all. You need the skills to perform in a team and that takes years of practice. Getting clubbed/farmed by veteran players for a long time till you can hold your own is not everybodys thing. If you get no feedback from seasoned players who know the "cheesy tactics" you might never make it even if you master the skills to pilot your mech like a player that has 3-5 years more experience in piloting mechs then you. There is no queue or save environment to learn the FW game on a beginners level. So a joyfull entry in FW is next to impossible for new players or a happy PUG live for those who can`t afford to team up because they lack the time to do so.

I suggest 2 queues, one for veteran groups and one for pugs plus new players. Make a matchmaker for FW that prevents sync drops and give big penaltys for leaving or regrouping with a unit. But my guess would be that the veteran units, contary to what they state in public, don`t want a real challange and play against each other. They will swarm the beginners and pug queues for easy pray to farm.

2. No battlevalue restrictions. Using weight as the only balance was a bad idea from the start. If you PUG in FW you see trail mechs, bad loadouts, unmastered mechs etc.. Banning dropdecks that don`t use next to all the tonnage, trail mechs and unmastered mechs from the queues would be a good start.

3. No real functioning ingame lobby to group up. Create a social and easy to use ingame portal to get in touch with other players that want to team up for FW.

4. Techbase balance. Belive what you want but clan tech is and at allmost all times has been better because of the design of most FW maps. The maps and gamemodes like sieges favor the clantech advantages. If the maps/modes would be designed that poking, range, mobility and cooling aren`t the determenting factors after the team coordiantion then IS could shine too. But that is only the case in scouting. In the Invation environment clantech is much better and you need a higher player skill and level of coordination on IS side to win the day. Thats sad because scouting won`t win planets or cookies.

[TWIAFU]

r4zen, on 05 December 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

So a hybrid solo queue with CW modes? You're still going to get units sync dropping to terrorize the pugs. Maybe not the KCOMs and BCMCs, MSs or (insert other tier 1 FP units here), but you will guaranteed see other units doing this once they get tired of their faces getting smashed in by the above units in the group CW/FP queue.

You also disenfranchise those solos who don't mind dropping as such, and want to climb the loyalty trees for the different factions. "Well join a big unit" is not a panacea, both currently and in your scenario.

It's simply not a workable solution, even if it sounds like a good compromise on it's face.

There is no easy solution so a hard decision has to be made.

Not everyone is going to be happy, such is life.

Sucks for the very good solo players that help the teams they drop with, but sadly, they are the minority.

The rest of the terribad solo ruined it for them.

The solo need a safe space to play where there is no threat of teamwork, just pug on pug, solo on solo just like QP. For them make QP with respawn in the CW environment. Everyone seems to be so protective of the 'new player' that just installed and wants to do CW right away, then make this solo only CW queue a p[ractice area without CW rewards for them to practice in.

There, they can learn and practice without any groups or teamwork.

Then, once they done there, they can join up in real CW, but no solo allowed.

The good solo CW players will have to suffer for the good of the bad solo CW players so they can no longer get clubbed.

It is crystal clear the these players are unable to unwilling to take responsibility for choices they made so the ability to make that choice has to be removed for their own good.

[C E Dwyer]

Billy Ray Jr, on 22 November 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

Faction play is a truly miserable experience. Somehow it often happens that the clanners have teames of 4 or more people and those simply kill anything in front of them. Apparently match maker doesn't count on clan technology being OP, clan players often being better and having more teams that coordinate.
It's one of the worst, most annoying match makers I've had experienced.

As others have Mentioned, Team work and the size of the unit on one side, is the deciding factor more than tech unbalance, there is no Match maker, so you won't get any balance of skill sets between players either.

P.G.I put a big banner to read before you play it, clearly you didn't read or didn't comprehend that this is how FW works.

If your solo and IS expect to lose every game, and then you won't be so crushed, or play QP where the MM sometimes work and you get both tech mechs on each team.

AlphaEtOmega, on 23 November 2017 - 10:25 AM, said:

Oh, that must be the reason why IS is winning most of the matches.

Cool story Bro.

Showing a picture of the first four weeks of the one planet systemwhen all the top teams switched to I.S to screw with P.G.I's sad spread sheet balance system so I.S mechs would get nerfs and clan mechs wouldn't is so far from an accurate representation it made me smile.

If this was really the case The pentagon worlds would have fallen and clan Wolf wouldn't be approximately ten Marik planets away from invading the Periphery on the other side of the map

What's made me laugh out loud though, is you've caught out some rabid fanbois using your tongue in cheek screen shot with no date stamp as proof


Keep up the good work in weeding out the insane, the I.S need a guy like you to

[CK16]

Cathy, on 06 December 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

As others have Mentioned, Team work and the size of the unit on one side, is the deciding factor more than tech unbalance, there is no Match maker, so you won't get any balance of skill sets between players either.

P.G.I put a big banner to read before you play it, clearly you didn't read or didn't comprehend that this is how FW works.

If your solo and IS expect to lose every game, and then you won't be so crushed, or play QP where the MM sometimes work and you get both tech mechs on each team.

Cool story Bro.

Showing a picture of the first four weeks of the one planet systemwhen all the top teams switched to I.S to screw with P.G.I's sad spread sheet balance system so I.S mechs would get nerfs and clan mechs wouldn't is so far from an accurate representation it made me smile.

If this was really the case The pentagon worlds would have fallen and clan Wolf wouldn't be approximately ten Marik planets away from invading the Periphery on the other side of the map

What's made me laugh out loud though, is you've caught out some rabid fanbois using your tongue in cheek screen shot with no date stamp as proof


Keep up the good work in weeding out the insane, the I.S need a guy like you to

Yet when those large merc units went IS numerous times they have done the same incursions into Clan space....they had Pentagon worlds at one point. ... The tech balance is not the reason the map looks like it does. The lack of merc population control does, and even if they had merc control you see them just sign loyalty for awhile with their in that faction. Right now how many are signed with Liao and Marik? The tech balance really isn't that far off. Watch the master challenges and see 1v1's that favor the IS just as much as Clans if not more in some cases. Your IS mechs are not getting steam rolled by Clan mechs like you seem to be crying. PGI is not on a crusade to ruin your IS mechs and only nerf them, and funny how you step into any Clan loyalist TS you will hear all the bitching about PGI ruining Clan mechs and weapons but yea the IS are the only ones who truly suffer -.-

Edited by CK16, 06 December 2017 - 06:19 AM.

[Kubernetes]

Tiewolf, on 06 December 2017 - 03:58 AM, said:

The idea of FW is great but it suffers from many problems.

1. No chance for all players to participate on their level. All this chit chat about everythings ok just join a unit. Its a lame excuse for sealclubbers. Teamwork is not all. You need the skills to perform in a team and that takes years of practice.

Trash. Unless you have a learning disability it does not take years of practice to operate with a team. Teamwork is more important than tech and arguably even more important than individual pilot skill. Stop making excuses.

Quote

Getting clubbed/farmed by veteran players for a long time till you can hold your own is not everybodys thing. If you get no feedback from seasoned players who know the "cheesy tactics" you might never make it even if you master the skills to pilot your mech like a player that has 3-5 years more experience in piloting mechs then you.

How will you get feedback if you don't drop with a unit? There are plenty of units out there that cater to newer players and casuals.

Quote

I suggest 2 queues, one for veteran groups and one for pugs plus new players.

A lot of people would be down with that if there were enough population. A solo queue was tried way back when, and it died because not enough people. No one wants to sit in queue for 30 min.

Quote

But my guess would be that the veteran units, contary to what they state in public, don`t want a real challange and play against each other.

Your guess is wrong.

[Lyons De Flamand]

True. A roll is a nice ego boost, but I also find it sad that I have to end games now saying "Thank you for showing up" rather than "Good Game, Well played"

Also, you don't learn anything from a roll. Hlaf the fun is finding out where you did wrong and what you can do better next time.

[naterist]

CK16, on 06 December 2017 - 06:18 AM, said:

Yet when those large merc units went IS numerous times they have done the same incursions into Clan space....they had Pentagon worlds at one point. ... The tech balance is not the reason the map looks like it does. The lack of merc population control does, and even if they had merc control you see them just sign loyalty for awhile with their in that faction. Right now how many are signed with Liao and Marik? The tech balance really isn't that far off. Watch the master challenges and see 1v1's that favor the IS just as much as Clans if not more in some cases. Your IS mechs are not getting steam rolled by Clan mechs like you seem to be crying. PGI is not on a crusade to ruin your IS mechs and only nerf them, and funny how you step into any Clan loyalist TS you will hear all the bitching about PGI ruining Clan mechs and weapons but yea the IS are the only ones who truly suffer -.-

did you say they had the pentagon worlds? pics or it didnt happen.

[SeventhSL]

naterist, on 06 December 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

did you say they had the pentagon worlds? pics or it didnt happen.

It has happened several times actually. At one stage every Clan was stuck on their home worlds and that was back before all the Clan nerfs and the Timberwolf and Storm Crow were at their peek.

CK16 is spot on. The map has nothing to do with balance. Despite all the lore on the great houses and Clans, Mercs rule here and the faction map is simply an indication of their activity. Nothing more.

The game URL is mwoMERCS.com so honestly, it is in the name.

[MischiefSC]

SeventhSL, on 07 December 2017 - 01:00 AM, said:

It has happened several times actually. At one stage every Clan was stuck on their home worlds and that was back before all the Clan nerfs and the Timberwolf and Storm Crow were at their peek.

CK16 is spot on. The map has nothing to do with balance. Despite all the lore on the great houses and Clans, Mercs rule here and the faction map is simply an indication of their activity. Nothing more.

The game URL is mwoMERCS.com so honestly, it is in the name.

Not true.

It was after the IS got some uberquirk mechs and everyone switched to play them. At that time the TBR was already nerfed.

When IS/Clan tech was closely balanced and when the IS was actually better than Clan tech (well, a couple of over-quirked mechs were) Clan players voided the game in droves. IS had been eating the bad side of balance for 2 years at that point and still showing up. The Clan players saw what it was like for about 2 weeks and functionally quit. IS side was just ghost drops, with or without mercs.

It was a pretty telling time about the difference in the games community. I recall at the time, when people were raging 'you need to put it back how it was or Clan players will leave and never come back!' and I said 'good riddance! Nothing of any value was lost."

Even now, with the low population, I firmly believe and stand by that.

[Grus]

From what I've seen lately is I.S. has a very good HGAUSS meta going on right now that is a tough thing to counter. 6 teams of 2hgauss for 2 waves will pick apart clan mech's quick. Add to the mix that the mech's that can field that have the armor and tonnage to weather the storm to get in range for max damage helps out a lot. Mobility on the clan side helps but on siege, especially defending, you are required (If you're playing the stay put of optimal range game) to give up a lot of ground to accomplish this. I'm saving my MC right now to buy a Sliph right now so I can play it and better understand it's drawbacks, first hand experience is a better teacher than a spreadsheet.

[Grus]

Mobility game; doing this to stay out of the max damage curve gives the attacking team the ability to clear objectives way easier and with less resistance. One set group is the "bully" pushes back opposing team allowing a smaller group to focus hand and such woth little to no resistance.

[MischiefSC]

Grus, on 08 December 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

From what I've seen lately is I.S. has a very good HGAUSS meta going on right now that is a tough thing to counter. 6 teams of 2hgauss for 2 waves will pick apart clan mech's quick. Add to the mix that the mech's that can field that have the armor and tonnage to weather the storm to get in range for max damage helps out a lot. Mobility on the clan side helps but on siege, especially defending, you are required (If you're playing the stay put of optimal range game) to give up a lot of ground to accomplish this. I'm saving my MC right now to buy a Sliph right now so I can play it and better understand it's drawbacks, first hand experience is a better teacher than a spreadsheet.

DPS is trash, it's slow and clunky.

It works against teams that are timid and poke at mid range.

Out-range it or out-brawl it. The problem is that so many Clan players want to get to 300-400m and.... poke. At that range nothing you have will out-poke 2x HG.

Get your team to grow a spine and push in on them where they're easy to destroy or play the long range game and don't let them close.

[McGoat]

Just don't be.. predictable

[Grus]

MischiefSC, on 08 December 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

DPS is trash, it's slow and clunky.

It works against teams that are timid and poke at mid range.

Out-range it or out-brawl it. The problem is that so many Clan players want to get to 300-400m and.... poke. At that range nothing you have will out-poke 2x HG.

Get your team to grow a spine and push in on them where they're easy to destroy or play the long range game and don't let them close.

long range's problem still is the giving up ground to maintain range advantage. There by opening up objectives to be taken..

Most of the builds I see for clan are poke for 400-700m and if max damage for Hgauss Is ~300m and you're moving at 50kph it will take you a little over 7 seconds (less if moving faster duh) to close that gap.

So pests say you both got a shot off and you see the clan mech duck back to cool off.. IS has taken 109 spread over CT and st, clan has taken ~40 to CT. Now IS has taken no heat for the shot where clan has to pop a CS to not nuke himself. (40kcbill down) so 5 second have passed before claner pokes again. Now poking IS wait for clear shot to CT (claner didn't poke facing target) by now should be cool to fire full alpha. Clan turns, is dumps 50 into CT. Clan fires and is spreads damage. So let's say for argument a st was taken off and 5he IS is left with 1hgr due to clan HP the likelihood is that CT is red or damn near it. One more hit and pop. You get the just.

Brawling would require either full ballistic builds to stay cool, or the range game is the other option.

As for the spine part, didn't think we had an issue there.

[naterist]

Grus, on 08 December 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

long range's problem still is the giving up ground to maintain range advantage. There by opening up objectives to be taken..

Most of the builds I see for clan are poke for 400-700m and if max damage for Hgauss Is ~300m and you're moving at 50kph it will take you a little over 7 seconds (less if moving faster duh) to close that gap.

So pests say you both got a shot off and you see the clan mech duck back to cool off.. IS has taken 109 spread over CT and st, clan has taken ~40 to CT. Now IS has taken no heat for the shot where clan has to pop a CS to not nuke himself. (40kcbill down) so 5 second have passed before claner pokes again. Now poking IS wait for clear shot to CT (claner didn't poke facing target) by now should be cool to fire full alpha. Clan turns, is dumps 50 into CT. Clan fires and is spreads damage. So let's say for argument a st was taken off and 5he IS is left with 1hgr due to clan HP the likelihood is that CT is red or damn near it. One more hit and pop. You get the just.

Brawling would require either full ballistic builds to stay cool, or the range game is the other option.

As for the spine part, didn't think we had an issue there.

if hes in the open, then why is only one clanner shooting him in your hypothetical situation? get all 12 guys to focus down 1 guy at a time, and youll be good. 12 70pt laservomit alphas will melt that fool in a heartbeat, then you cool off and do it again. if your backing up, you arent killing, so dont do that. remember, press w to win.

[Grus]

naterist, on 08 December 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

if hes in the open, then why is only one clanner shooting him in your hypothetical situation? get all 12 guys to focus down 1 guy at a time, and youll be good. 12 70pt laservomit alphas will melt that fool in a heartbeat, then you cool off and do it again. if your backing up, you arent killing, so dont do that. remember, press w to win.

was just showing an example for a single target, could even use the "why is the fool pushing alone" bit As well. And even with that line 12 dual hgauss would apply 400 to 600 pnts of damage to one mech.. and you cant spread that.

70 pt alpha? Pfft my dire has 109. But it's 109 and 10 sec cool down to fire again (If no cs)

As with most ballistics (clan ac uac excluded) it's full damage to the target per shot. Unlike with lasers it's a short damage over time. If i had slug ammo for LBX i can deffinitly make a few cool builds to brawl a dual hgauss assalt easy. But...

[Fuerchtenichts]

Tiewolf, on 06 December 2017 - 03:58 AM, said:

The idea of FW is great but it suffers from many problems.

1. No chance for all players to participate on their level. All this chit chat about everythings ok just join a unit. Its a lame excuse for sealclubbers. Teamwork is not all. You need the skills to perform in a team and that takes years of practice. Getting clubbed/farmed by veteran players for a long time till you can hold your own is not everybodys thing. If you get no feedback from seasoned players who know the "cheesy tactics" you might never make it even if you master the skills to pilot your mech like a player that has 3-5 years more experience in piloting mechs then you. There is no queue or save environment to learn the FW game on a beginners level. So a joyfull entry in FW is next to impossible for new players or a happy PUG live for those who can`t afford to team up because they lack the time to do so.

I suggest 2 queues, one for veteran groups and one for pugs plus new players. Make a matchmaker for FW that prevents sync drops and give big penaltys for leaving or regrouping with a unit. But my guess would be that the veteran units, contary to what they state in public, don`t want a real challange and play against each other. They will swarm the beginners and pug queues for easy pray to farm.

1.
a ) You can only get feedback if you talk to people. So group up on a faction TS or on a unit TS. There is simply no other way.
b ) Look in the forum for active TS Servers and save the ones you like on your TS favorite list. Joining after that will only take seconds....
c ) Joining with a premade typically speeds up the time you need for finding an invasion match, because the bigger your team is, the more on top it is put in the match queue. So in the end you will save time.

That's all to the topic, "I can't afford time to group up"

2. Start to understand that veteran premades (which are pretty rare) are your main problem. Big units have players with a very broad skill mix. They are much easier to beat then some guys knowing each other in game for 6 years.

3. Shortly after implementing your PUG newbie queue, it will be flooded by veterans farming the newbies. So, where is the advantage?

Tiewolf, on 06 December 2017 - 03:58 AM, said:

2. No battlevalue restrictions. Using weight as the only balance was a bad idea from the start. If you PUG in FW you see trail mechs, bad loadouts, unmastered mechs etc.. Banning dropdecks that don`t use next to all the tonnage, trail mechs and unmastered mechs from the queues would be a good start.

I thought you wanted to speed up the process to get new players in FP. This will do the exact opposite and create lots of postings in this forum regarding how badly newbies are treated in MWO FP.

Tiewolf, on 06 December 2017 - 03:58 AM, said:

3. No real functioning ingame lobby to group up. Create a social and easy to use ingame portal to get in touch with other players that want to team up for FW.

I agree, the missing lobby functionalities are the biggest shortfall of PGI as a developer of a team based tactic shooter

Tiewolf, on 06 December 2017 - 03:58 AM, said:

4. Techbase balance. Belive what you want but clan tech is and at allmost all times has been better because of the design of most FW maps. The maps and gamemodes like sieges favor the clantech advantages. If the maps/modes would be designed that poking, range, mobility and cooling aren`t the determenting factors after the team coordiantion then IS could shine too. But that is only the case in scouting. In the Invation environment clantech is much better and you need a higher player skill and level of coordination on IS side to win the day. Thats sad because scouting won`t win planets or cookies.

So you basically say the map design is bad?

Edited by Fuerchtenichts, 09 December 2017 - 02:47 AM.

[TWIAFU]

MischiefSC, on 08 December 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

DPS is trash, it's slow and clunky.

It works against teams that are timid and poke at mid range.

Out-range it or out-brawl it. The problem is that so many Clan players want to get to 300-400m and.... poke. At that range nothing you have will out-poke 2x HG.

Get your team to grow a spine and push in on them where they're easy to destroy or play the long range game and don't let them close.

And best advice to IS players is to know that Clans will always want to use range advantage. Best way to beat them is to not allow them!

Use terrain, tactics, teamwork to advance and push. Never allow them to use that advantage or use it against them.