107 replies to this topic

[KingCobra]

MischiefSC, on 28 November 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

I'm ambivalent on a respawn system, though all it's really going to do is mean good players farm more bads. It's also going to screw ammo builds, because I can take a laservomit MAD IIC every time and rock a nice 5 or 10 KDR and a billion cbills every match. It means suicide rushes are pretty much the best possible strategy because they have 0 cost or risk.

Respawns work well in games that are pretty much 1 shot 1 kill and a TTK measured in < 1 second. In a game like MWO where everyone has hitpoints that degrade and do not heal it would overall make for an incredibly, incredibly shallow experience.

What I meant was not changing QP per say into a re spawn game but have a coexisting game mode just like we have now with re spawns so basically you could play one or the other by just picking that game mode with a UI button after hitting the play button.

Or I could explain it like this players hit the Quickplay button then 2 buttons pop up one to play regular QP with 1 life only and the other button is to play QP with re spawns until so many kills are met or what ever criteria you want to put in for a battle win condition.

Edited by KingCobra, 28 November 2017 - 02:53 PM.

[General Solo]

TWIAFU, on 28 November 2017 - 03:51 AM, said:

Educate yourself for a change.
http://mwomercs.com/...e-how-it-works/

That was moar than 90 days ago.

Did all dat stuff make the lastest patch?

Do you have any thing more recent.

If you can reply within 90 days, dat would be gr8.

Edit: If indeed it is the case that FW has a Match maker, its not doing a very could job because FW appears to be dieing.

Dat can't be gr8.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 28 November 2017 - 03:25 PM.

[MischiefSC]

KingCobra, on 28 November 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

What I meant was not changing QP per say into a re spawn game but have a coexisting game mode just like we have now with re spawns so basically you could play one or the other by just picking that game mode with a UI button after hitting the play button.

Or I could explain it like this players hit the Quickplay button then 2 buttons pop up one to play regular QP with 1 life only and the other button is to play QP with re spawns until so many kills are met or what ever criteria you want to put in for a battle win condition.

I'm all for more maps/modes. I get people are scared about over-dividing the population but the reality is, as has been shown in a multitude of games, the point is to keep people having fun and playing. They will branch out into other facets of the game on their own. If you don't give them what they enjoy though they'll leave and go elsewhere.

[eXizt]

MischiefSC, on 28 November 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

I'm ambivalent on a respawn system, though all it's really going to do is mean good players farm more bads. It's also going to screw ammo builds, because I can take a laservomit MAD IIC every time and rock a nice 5 or 10 KDR and a billion cbills every match. It means suicide rushes are pretty much the best possible strategy because they have 0 cost or risk.

Respawns work well in games that are pretty much 1 shot 1 kill and a TTK measured in < 1 second. In a game like MWO where everyone has hitpoints that degrade and do not heal it would overall make for an incredibly, incredibly shallow experience.

You can solve the suicide problem when you reward players that use there resources smart with more CB or XP. And like Wolfways said before, a mobile mechbay that repair and refill your ammo is an option. Furthermore, I dont believe you will be on a laser rampage, while others running out of ammo. The enemy will hit or destroy you to. The logic only works when you would be invulnarable for the enemy.


Besides that, suicide must not be a superior solution. With regard to a Battlefield Ticket System, its a very stupid tactic (Battlefield use also hitboxes for vehicles). For every useless attack and sucide, your team loosing a ticket. The team with the better appropriate rate of KD compared with mission goals, wins the round. The big advantage here is, teams that use their resources more efficient get more points, teams with a bad management (suiciders and bad players) get less points and often lose the round. Playing efficient results always in more points, regardless of the win or loss. As long as theres no saboteurs on your side, the system allows to ignore beginner mistakes or just bad luck. You can now argue that camper and sniper would be benefit from a high KD.... no! They dont, because they cant gather the same amount of points like a player that team up, facing much more enemys, revive and support and go for objectives.

I think that this would be much better because it rise your time on the battlefield and is much easier to manage as a complex weapon and chassis balancing with thousands of variations.

I have to admit that I´m not one of these MWO veterans with years of experience. I´m very new to this game. But what bother me here while reading the forum is, theres a lot of people that actually dont know how other developers solve problems of these kind or they just to stubborn and cant or dont want to think outside the very, very tiny and unconfortable MWO box.

[KingCobra]

MischiefSC, on 28 November 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

I'm all for more maps/modes. I get people are scared about over-dividing the population but the reality is, as has been shown in a multitude of games, the point is to keep people having fun and playing. They will branch out into other facets of the game on their own. If you don't give them what they enjoy though they'll leave and go elsewhere.

I will agree with you on this post it has always been a good strategy by a game company to be as diverse in game play as posable to retain as many players as possable within reason. MWO 'S shallow attempt to be a WOT Clone has not totally failed but it has shortened the games life as in IE loss of players of the old IP games and possibly new players looking for a easier game to play and experience the MechWarrior BattleTech universe than MWO provided.

[MischiefSC]

FritzKrieg, on 28 November 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

You can solve the suicide problem when you reward players that use there resources smart with more CB or XP. And like Wolfways said before, a mobile mechbay that repair and refill your ammo is an option. Furthermore, I dont believe you will be on a laser rampage, while others running out of ammo. The enemy will hit or destroy you to. The logic only works when you would be invulnarable for the enemy.


Besides that, suicide must not be a superior solution. With regard to a Battlefield Ticket System, its a very stupid tactic (Battlefield use also hitboxes for vehicles). For every useless attack and sucide, your team loosing a ticket. The team with the better appropriate rate of KD compared with mission goals, wins the round. The big advantage here is, teams that use their resources more efficient get more points, teams with a bad management (suiciders and bad players) get less points and often lose the round. Playing efficient results always in more points, regardless of the win or loss. As long as theres no saboteurs on your side, the system allows to ignore beginner mistakes or just bad luck. You can now argue that camper and sniper would be benefit from a high KD.... no! They dont, because they cant gather the same amount of points like a player that team up, facing much more enemys, revive and support and go for objectives.

I think that this would be much better because it rise your time on the battlefield and is much easier to manage as a complex weapon and chassis balancing with thousands of variations.

I have to admit that I´m not one of these MWO veterans with years of experience. I´m very new to this game. But what bother me here while reading the forum is, theres a lot of people that actually dont know how other developers solve problems of these kind or they just to stubborn and cant or dont want to think outside the very, very tiny and unconfortable MWO box.

Except you're not thinking of the trade - trading, say, a rocketlauncher equipped light or medium to cripple or kill a heavy is a worthwhile trade - you'll make the ticket up on your next mech.

I'm very familiar with the Battlefield system and respawn games. At this point I've probably played ARMA and PUBG more than I've played MWO.

However, again, the critical piece is that each unit has different value and a system that lets me trade low value for high lets me farm back those tickets easily.

I can also say, without question, that a MAD IIC laservomit line of mechs could farm bads for 30 minutes. I have had plenty of 12-48 matches in FW.

I'm game with a respawn gamemode, I just don't think it would work well for FW. I think that it would play poorly in an environment like MWO specifically because of the nature of mech armor, structure, weapon and location plus ammo depletion. A repair/rearm setup for in match is also really.... gamey.

For people who would enjoy that, great. I just think you'd find it didn't play as well here and certainly wouldn't draw a big population.

[Wolfways]

MischiefSC, on 28 November 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

I'm game with a respawn gamemode, I just don't think it would work well for FW. I think that it would play poorly in an environment like MWO specifically because of the nature of mech armor, structure, weapon and location plus ammo depletion. A repair/rearm setup for in match is also really.... gamey.

It works for MWLL, and the "repair bays" only repair armour, not missing arms/st's, etc.

Quote

For people who would enjoy that, great. I just think you'd find it didn't play as well here and certainly wouldn't draw a big population.

I've never understood how MWLL has so few players. It's....Battletech! Or at least the closest anything has come to it while being an FPS. But maybe people won't play it because it's a mod, or the mechs aren't as pretty as MWO's, and sadly there are probably more people playing MWO because it's a shooty-robot game than there are BT fans.

[drifter bob]

Fishbaws, on 28 November 2017 - 02:55 AM, said:

What im getting at, is MWO needs less of this:



And more of this:
https://youtu.be/--sQ2VaTl2s?t=2m37s

yeah well in pug vs pug matches clan gets to their optimal and starts playing Prairie Dog


which leads to the is side having to reenact a scene from enemy at the gates


or get picked of 1 by 1 while the clan pugs play you gessed it


PRAIRIE DOG

Edited by drifter bob, 29 November 2017 - 03:26 AM.

[TWIAFU]

OZHomerOZ, on 28 November 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

That was moar than 90 days ago.

Did all dat stuff make the lastest patch?

Do you have any thing more recent.

If you can reply within 90 days, dat would be gr8.

Edit: If indeed it is the case that FW has a Match maker, its not doing a very could job because FW appears to be dieing.

Dat can't be gr8.

Are you really this ignorant? English has to be a second language, that can be the only explanation to your lack of comprehension.

Of course it is more then 90 days old, it is the plan for CW MM as CW is more then 90 days old.

Latest patch? WTF you talking about now??? This been in since CW and the posting of that tread.

Anything more recent? What for? The CW MM has not changed at all, no need for anything recent, nothing has changed.

Reply in 90 days? Jesus christ on a pogo stick, "dat" "gr8"?!? Again, EDUCATE yourself for gods sake.

MM is doing exactly what is supposed to be doing in relation to CW, your just a seal at the very bottom of the barrel so you know nothing more.

[Johnathan Tanner]

TWIAFU, on 29 November 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

your just a seal at the very bottom of the barrel so you know nothing more.

[General Solo]

TWIAFU, on 29 November 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

Are you really this ignorant? English has to be a second language, that can be the only explanation to your lack of comprehension.

Of course it is more then 90 days old, it is the plan for CW MM as CW is more then 90 days old.

Latest patch? WTF you talking about now??? This been in since CW and the posting of that tread.

Anything more recent? What for? The CW MM has not changed at all, no need for anything recent, nothing has changed.

Reply in 90 days? Jesus christ on a pogo stick, "dat" "gr8"?!? Again, EDUCATE yourself for gods sake.

MM is doing exactly what is supposed to be doing in relation to CW, your just a seal at the very bottom of the barrel so you know nothing more.

If you read and comprehended my previous posts you would understand where I stand.
Instead you resort to bad mouthing me. Like I triggered you or something, when the the reality is you triggered yourself..

I don't have time to explain it to you any moar than I already have.
Its seems I can't help you.
Carry on

Edit: Just ask any pilot in a guid unit what they thnk about Match Maker and Faction warfare in the same sentence.

Most would laugh

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 30 November 2017 - 05:34 PM.

[KingCobra]

I played 4 games of FP last night would have played more but no battles hooked up for a hour I gave up playing IS merc as a pug the first thing I can tell everyone is I had 2 good games where the score was close whitin 2-3 kills won 1 game lost 1 game but the fact is every fun close game as a pug I have ever played in CW/FP has been 12 pugs vs 12 pug or a mix of small groups and pugs on either side.

The 2 other games were as slaughter 40+ score Vs 1-10 kills by us by a good 12 man team it was totally un-fun this aspect of cw/fp has occurred for 4 years now and PGI must not give a dinkle about there player base or they would have made 2 cw/fp mm queues long ago.

I could imagine MWO still with over 200,000 players if PGI would just listen to there player base and fix just a few things to make MWO more fun for everyone I have to ask has Russ and PGI staff been on there own island for 4 years thinking this game will retain and gain more players per year? When in fact it has been a slow decline in players over 4 years.

Its just like for the longest time (Years) many have asked for more maps and new game modes and finally 3-4 years later we get 1 new map and 1 new game mode. I play Hawken as well and I would have liked to see the 2 game modes they have Siege mode and Missile mode or something similar or even some of the old MechWarrior4 Mercinaries game modes put into MWO.

Dont get me wrong Im liking the new map and escort game mode when I do get to play it the voting system needs to be removed and a random map and game mode should be re-installed back into the game so all maps and game modes can be played not just a few.

Back to cw/fp balance its funny how lopsided the teams vs pug/small groups games are there is your un-balance in cw/fp not the mechs not the weapons just teams vs small groups or pugs which could be easily solved if Russ and PGI wanted to fix the game mode.

P.S to be fair some of the fun times also in CW/FP were when I was on a team and we played only other teams the games were competitive and fun.But when we played pugs and small groups we slaughtered them and the games were so un-fun I quit playing on teams because I hated to see new players un-install the game or quit playing CW/FP altogether.

Edited by KingCobra, 04 December 2017 - 09:43 AM.

[TheMightySpin]

Wolfways, on 23 November 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

You see the same in both factions. The MM only puts 12v12 together, nothing else because according to pgi and many players in units you're not supposed to play the game if you're not in one of those units.
I've seen elitism in many games but MWO is the first game I've ever played where that elitism was supported by the company that made the game.
Telling people not to play your game is a great way to make money...

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Adding fuel to the fire is that most units (particularly the top rated ones) refuse to help new players learn the game. Instead of telling new players what they've done wrong, why and how to fix it, too many players would rather drop a big steamer on new players and shame them out of the game.

Players new to faction play or MWO in general, do yourselves a favor: Before you go and join the first unit that looks good on the top of the leader boards be sure to see if they're the kind of players I've been describing. All units have their trolls, it's true, but some are more willing to embrace that mentality than others and those aren't the kinds of units you want to deal with. They're the types to hold other players down rather than risk their own position on the top and are toxic to the community as a whole.

Look for a unit that has regular training or whose officers will at least offer one on one time to help new players learn the basics. Even if you're a QP vet, Faction is a whole different beast. Otherwise find a unit that you have enough fun with it doesn't matter if you win every game or not.

[r4zen]

TheMightySpin, on 04 December 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Adding fuel to the fire is that most units (particularly the top rated ones) refuse to help new players learn the game. Instead of telling new players what they've done wrong, why and how to fix it, too many players would rather drop a big steamer on new players and shame them out of the game.

There's a opoid epidemic in 'merica because TheMightySpin won't grab his buddies and counsel opiate addicts on how to get better. Instead of telling them that they're ruining their lives, or how to get better and fix themselves, he just lives his life and lols when he drives past the homeless addict with the funny sign

Why are you such a jerk, dude?

[SeventhSL]

Billy Ray Jr, on 22 November 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

Faction play is a truly miserable experience. Somehow it often happens that the clanners have teames of 4 or more people and those simply kill anything in front of them. Apparently match maker doesn't count on clan technology being OP, clan players often being better and having more teams that coordinate.
It's one of the worst, most annoying match makers I've had experienced.

Faction play is great fun. I love it and I PUG a lot.

Faction play doesn't have a match maker. Kind of like war in real life. It is not really for snowflakes. You need guts and a positive attitude or, alternatively, join a big Merc unit and play on easy mode.

I play both sides and listen to both sides carry on about the other side being OP. Honestly, it's a team game and the best team wins. It is that simple.

[KingCobra]

SeventhSL, on 05 December 2017 - 02:41 AM, said:

Faction play is great fun. I love it and I PUG a lot.

Faction play doesn't have a match maker. Kind of like war in real life. It is not really for snowflakes. You need guts and a positive attitude or, alternatively, join a big Merc unit and play on easy mode.

I play both sides and listen to both sides carry on about the other side being OP. Honestly, it's a team game and the best team wins. It is that simple.

Faction play does not need a matchmaker it needs separate MM drops for (organized teams 8-12 man Vs (organized teams 8-12man only) and (pugs/small groups Vs pugs/small groups) and CW/FP would balance itself,

Like I have said a HUNDRED TIMES THE PROBLEMS IN cw/fp ARE NOT THE MECHS NOT THE WEAPONS ITS JUST THE MIXING OF THE 2 GROUPS THAT MAKE IT UN-FUN AND UNBALANCED PERIOD.

That way everyone can enjoy the game mode and PGI should have done the split 4 years ago before we lost 90% of the MWO players that could still be playing and paying into MWO.

[TWIAFU]

KingCobra, on 05 December 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

Faction play does not need a matchmaker it needs separate MM drops for (organized teams 8-12 man Vs (organized teams 8-12man only) and (pugs/small groups Vs pugs/small groups) and CW/FP would balance itself,

Like I have said a HUNDRED TIMES THE PROBLEMS IN cw/fp ARE NOT THE MECHS NOT THE WEAPONS ITS JUST THE MIXING OF THE 2 GROUPS THAT MAKE IT UN-FUN AND UNBALANCED PERIOD.

That way everyone can enjoy the game mode and PGI should have done the split 4 years ago before we lost 90% of the MWO players that could still be playing and paying into MWO.

Then people would complain about 7mans clubbing, teamwork op, and our favorite, sync dropping.

How can you successfully mix teamwork players and non teamwork players in a teamwork focused queue?

A. Remove the ability for teamwork between players.
B. Remove teamwork as a focus of the Queue.
C. Remove non teamwork and teamwork from mixing.

Can't do A. Can't do B. Have to do C. Solo and Group CW players cannot play together or against each other.

It just does not work. Warning is not working. Clubbings on each side is not working. Forums not working. In game it is not working, for either 'side'.

Solo v solo in a solo only queue, CW modes, no planet ownership, no loyality,

Skirmish/Premade only queue, full CW rewards and ownership.

Had the Unit and non Unit split, time for this.

[Sjorpha]

Jumped back into MJ12 and played some FP the last week, actually it's been quite good with groups mixed with pugs on both sides in most matches. Great fun.

[r4zen]

TWIAFU, on 05 December 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Solo v solo in a solo only queue, CW modes, no planet ownership, no loyality,

Skirmish/Premade only queue, full CW rewards and ownership.

So a hybrid solo queue with CW modes? You're still going to get units sync dropping to terrorize the pugs. Maybe not the KCOMs and BCMCs, MSs or (insert other tier 1 FP units here), but you will guaranteed see other units doing this once they get tired of their faces getting smashed in by the above units in the group CW/FP queue.

You also disenfranchise those solos who don't mind dropping as such, and want to climb the loyalty trees for the different factions. "Well join a big unit" is not a panacea, both currently and in your scenario.

It's simply not a workable solution, even if it sounds like a good compromise on it's face.

[SeventhSL]

I use to think that splitting the FW queue into groups and solo was a good idea but the more I know, the more I understand it is flawed. They even tried it and it failed. What more can be said?

QP is the safe area for the casual player and those who can't take the cut and trust FW. Groups and teamwork should be the driving force of FW which it is. If you set foot in FW you do so knowing that. This does not mean that there should not be changes, there should. Starting with a softer introduction for new players and here's how:

Change drop deck from tonnage to battle rating (Mech rating set automatically by active use). It means all sides can bring the same combat effectiveness and allows for mixed decks. It gives every Mech a reason to be used if by no other virtue that it has a low battle rating. Any meta will soon find itself pulled into line by virtue of its over use. Balance by the player's own action.

Lone Wolf: Here is your soft intro to FW. As a lone wolf you can't earn faction rewards, gold or tag planets. You can't even join a group or unit. You click the fight button and get slotted in to any game on any side. In return you get the ability to use a mixed deck with a little extra rating then loyalists and Mercs.

Loyalist: Your next set up and where the bulk of players should reside. You work in groups/units, earn gold, tag planets, earn faction rewards, decide attack corridors and the fate of the universe. You are limited to your factions Mechs but received battle rating discounts on your factions iconic mechs. If your faction takes a planet with a mech factory you get to include them in your deck.

Mercenaries: Welcome to home of the hard core, underhanded, back stabbing player base. You can't tag planets, decide the fate of the universe or even what faction you fight for (contact conditions dependent) but you can earn a lot of rewards for helping it burn. You get a whole mini contract game where you compete against other Merc units for gold, glory and prises. No contract is the same. Different risks, rewards and terms on all of them. Forfill or break them as you will. Friendly unit damage isn't an issue so if there is less of your unit mates alive at the end then you'll get their rewards too. The only sure thing about Mercs is that the contract game won't let them all stack sides together and it will penalise the snot out of them for seal clubbing.

Edited by SeventhSL, 05 December 2017 - 04:31 PM.