247 replies to this topic

[Athom83]

Khobai, on 30 November 2017 - 09:07 PM, said:

I dont believe you can ever really make microlasers a viable weapon in MWO. It was just ridiculous to add them to the game.

They are viable for lighter mechs with a lot of energy hardpoints (Viper, Nova, Stormcrow).

[Snazzy Dragon]

Athom83, on 01 December 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

They are viable for lighter mechs with a lot of energy hardpoints (Viper, Nova, Stormcrow).

Bruh

On all of those mechs, I'd rather use traditional builds or heavy lasers

[Khobai]

yeah microlasers were just a stupid idea for mechs

if we had protomechs or elementals theyd be okay

but we dont

[Kalimaster]

Lets see, another NERF thread. No lets leave them alone. Ever notice how someone fires a couple of these babies off and then they can't do anything for a few moments as you cream them. No.... Pay attention grasshopper and you will see that these bad boys are mice in disguise.

[ShooterMcGavin80]

Yeah, I initially thought HLL's were pretty great and have them on a couple of my mechs. They are good but I don't think OP at all. The burn time and long cooldown is the issue.

Mediums and lights with a good pilot you will NEVER get your full burn time on target, you're lucky if you get a fraction of it. And then you have a close to six second wait while the little ankle biter keeps chewing on your back.

Heavies and assaults are the proper target of HLL's, but again, if the enemy is poking quickly and effectively, or twisting and protecting well, landing a full burn on one or even two components is nearly impossible.

I think the HLL's are right about where they need to be. Brawlers can easily overrun and destroy you. The HLL only works if for some reason there is a slow tempo poking from cover game going on at a 400 meter range.

Only weapons right now that I think are underused and could probably use a very slight buff are light PPC's and light gauss. Streaks too are pretty underused.

[Y E O N N E]

With IS, it's not buffing for under-utilization, it's buffing for under-performance. It's not the same thing, and I wish PGI would learn that.

[Rusharn]

The heavy lasers need their own color so you can have an easier time identifying when an enemy mech is using them.

[Gristle Missile]

The only IS lasers that are better than clan were the standard medium laser due to heat efficiency and cooldown - but they nerfed that real fast....

Poking laser vomit is a very boring and unbalanced meta. Mechs with high laser mounts = low risk, high reward

How about if pressing R to target a mech has a fast "lock-on" time for convergence? Lasers and other weapons will be spread based on hardpoints till the convergence loads.

Edited by Gristle Missile, 11 December 2017 - 10:15 AM.

[thievingmagpi]

Tried 4xCerll on my HBR over the standard heavy large/er medium and I don't like it as much. Range is nice but I prefer mid range fights and I'm not skilled enough to yolo snipe and not get overwhelmed by lights

[Khobai]

Quote

The only IS lasers that are better than clan were the standard medium laser due to heat efficiency and cooldown - but they nerfed that real fast....

well im not sure why the standard lasers now have the same beam duration as the ER versions

it seems like the non-ER lasers should have shorter beam duration to incentivize their use over the ER versions

the std small/medium/large lasers should have their beam durations reduced by at least 10%-15% compared to the ER versions (so around 0.6-0.7 for the sml laser, 0.75-0.8 for the med laser, and 0.95-1.0 for the large laser)

Quote

How about if pressing R to target a mech has a fast "lock-on" time for convergence? Lasers and other weapons will be spread based on hardpoints till the convergence loads.

I still think the solution PGI will go with is to link medium and large lasers for ghost heat and increase the ghost heat limit of non-heavy large lasers by 1.

I also think they should reduce the damage on CERML from 7 to 6 (and reduce the heat from 6.3 to 5.4)

7 damage for 1 ton has always been way too good

Edited by Khobai, 11 December 2017 - 10:17 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Reducing heat on the cERML is a mistake even if the damage goes down. They would still run colder on the net without changing the heat at all.

[Khobai]

Quote

Reducing heat on the cERML is a mistake even if the damage goes down. They would still run colder on the net without changing the heat at all.

nobody would use it for 6 damage at 6.3 heat, that would be incredibly inefficient on heat. At 6 damage, the heat should certainly not be higher than 5.5

the ISERML is 5 damage for 4.5 heat. yes it gets 10% less range. but it also gets shorter beam duration and shorter cooldown which is a fair tradeoff. So 5.4-5.5 heat for a 6 damage CERML would be fine.

the problem with CERML doesnt involve heat anyway... the problem is the fact you can fire 6 CERML and 2 large lasers together.

linking medium and large lasers for ghost heat and reducing CERML to 6 damage would significantly reduce the amount of damage clan laser vomit alphas can do.

that takes care of clan lasers, all thats left is to balance clan gauss... because at 12 tons it should not be doing 15 damage. clan gauss should do 12 damage instead of 15 damage, but it should also have the range of a light gauss.

Edited by Khobai, 11 December 2017 - 11:11 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 11 December 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:

nobody would use it for 6 damage at 6.3 heat, that would be incredibly inefficient on heat. At 6 damage, the heat should certainly not be higher than 5.5

Incorrect. Everybody would still use it becase six of them and a Gauss rufle or two is still 51-66 damage with massive amounts of room left over for bug engine and copious heatsinks because it is one ton and one slot.

Quote

the ISERML is 5 damage for 4.5 heat. yes it gets 10% less range. but it also gets shorter beam duration and shorter cooldown. So 5.4-5.5 heat for the CERML would be fine.

Shorter beam duration hasn't made IS vomit competitive with Clan vomit because it runs hotter and the damage isn't there. Big 'Mechs must eat the larger volley.

Quote

the problem with CERML doesnt involve heat anyway... the problem is the fact you can fire 6 CERML and 2 large lasers together.

Incorrect again . Heat has been a major issue since Day 1. Go look at the sustained output of typical Clan vomit boats and then compare to the sustained output on typical IS boats in the same range bracket. One of them is much easier to push on and it isn't the Clan boat. Even the max output rate is better. Allowing enough cooling to make those overgunned builds viable is at the center of the problem.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 11 December 2017 - 11:12 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Incorrect. Everybody would still use it becase six of them and a Gauss rufle or two is still 51-66 damage with massive amounts of room left over for bug engine and copious heatsinks because it is one ton and one slot.

clan gauss should be 12 damage though not 15

but also with the faster rate of fire and longer range of a light gauss

Quote

Shorter beam duration hasn't made IS vomit competitive with Clan vomit because it runs hotter and the damage isn't there. Big 'Mechs must eat the larger volley.

Quote

Incorrect again . Heat has been a major issue since Day 1. Go look at the sustained output of typical Clan vomit boats and then compare to the sustained output on typical IS boats in the same range bracket. One of them is much easier to push on and it isn't the Clan boat. Even the max output rate is better. Allowing enough cooling to make those overgunned builds viable is at the center of the problem.

But the problem isnt that clan weapons arnt hot enough

the problem is that IS heatsinks arnt good enough

my solution for that would be to simply make IS heatsinks better

they take up 3 crit slots instead of 2 crit slots, so why shouldnt they be better?

It would balance things out if all IS DHS were true double heatsinks.

Edited by Khobai, 11 December 2017 - 11:24 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 11 December 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

clan gauss should be 12 damage though not 15

But it isn't and even then it's still 48-60 running damn frosty at 70+ kph. IS are toasty as hell for any given build running 60 damage alphas and none of them are breaking 60 kph without tweak. And if you link IS larges and mediums, it becomes that much harder to get there.

Hell, we'd just swap to cMPL to get the 7 back anyway and we'd still outgun isERML.

[Khobai]

like i said, IS DHS should be better

all IS DHS should be true double heatsinks

so an IS mech with 20 double heatsinks would equal a clan mech with 23-24 double heatsinks.

I dont think overpenalizing clan weapons because IS DHS are bad is fair. Just make IS DHS better. Since IS DHS cost more crits than Clan DHS, they should logically be better anyway.

Edited by Khobai, 11 December 2017 - 11:23 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 11 December 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

like i said, IS DHS should be better

Yes it would, but that wasn't in when I replied.

[Lightfoot]

Well so far Heavy Lasers have only stuck on my Shadow Cat because it can hit and fade, and should. I took them off the rest of my mechs for some mix of the older lasers which are much better usually. I really can't see a reason to nerf them

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 11 December 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

like i said, IS DHS should be better
so an IS mech with 20 double heatsinks would equal a clan mech with 23-24 double heatsinks.

And what about those Clan 'Mechs sporting 26-30 DHS? Because that's the norm for full laser vomit, not 22-24.

Quote

I dont think overpenalizing clan weapons because IS DHS are bad is fair. Just make IS DHS better. Since IS DHS cost more crits than Clan DHS, they should logically be better anyway.

Not debating that. Only debating your chosen values. IS sinks would need a dissipation rate of 0.25 h/s to actually equal Clans. That would give a 22 DHS Battlemaster the same dissipation as a 30 DHS Marauder IIC, which is basically the upper limit.

[Khobai]

Quote

And what about those Clan 'Mechs sporting 26-30 DHS? Because that's the norm for full laser vomit, not 22-24.

what clan laser vomit mech has 26-30 DHS?

most have like 24-25. my ebon jag has 25. my hellbringer has 24. my timberwolf has 25. my linebacker has 24. my novacat is 25. and theyre all standard midrange laser vomit builds (4-6 medium lasers and 2 large lasers).

Most of your clan omnis have endo and/or ferro which prevents them from taking 26-30 DHS even if they had the tonnage.

I dont doubt you that some clan mechs might have 26-30 DHS, but thats certainly not the "norm". normal is 24-25 DHS.

I think IS DHS at 2.0 (instead of 1.5) would be largely sufficient for balancing the heat between IS and Clan mechs.

Edited by Khobai, 11 December 2017 - 03:41 PM.