84 replies to this topic

[Unnatural Growth]

So does this also mean that it will be "stand alone", or do I have to connect to a server somewhere as a requirement to play?

[Jay Leon Hart]

OldOrgandonor, on 02 December 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

So does this also mean that it will be "stand alone", or do I have to connect to a server somewhere as a requirement to play?

Appogee, on 02 December 2017 - 02:05 AM, said:

MW5 will be available on Steam and elsewhere, including a PGI portal. It will require Steam as PGI want to use the Steam API 100% for features like friend lists.

So it may be available to play offline, but will likely at least require an online activation.

[Appogee]

s0da72, on 02 December 2017 - 08:12 AM, said:

So what could they possibly annouce at this years mech con that will improve my enjoyment of the game?

Don't think it will improve your enjoyment of the game, but I expect:

• 8v8 in QP.
  
• Maps chopped into 4 separate map pieces for QP because you don't need as big a map when you're only 8v8.
  
• Spawn points redone for the smaller map pieces.

Voila! Are you not entertained?!

[Jay Leon Hart]

Appogee, on 02 December 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

Don't think it will improve your enjoyment of the game, but I expect:

• 8v8 in QP.
  
• Maps chopped into 4 separate map pieces for QP because you don't need as big a map when you're only 8v8.
  
• Spawn points redone for the smaller map pieces.

Voila! Are you not entertained?!

I CAN H4Z OLDE FR0Z3N CIT3H?!

[Odanan]

Appogee, on 02 December 2017 - 02:05 AM, said:

As a thank you to all the guys who have provided written transcripts of previous Town Halls and Podcasts, today I've stepped up and done the hard yards of documenting the latest NG:NG podcast myself.

I've contained my personal commentary and reactions to a bare minimum, indicated by italics.

---

Questioned about PGI's energy/exhaustion level, Russ says lots of hard work has been put in by the team but his personal energy level is just today picking up. "There are things we didn't do, but..." (ominous)

<30 tickets available at this point, almost sold out. There will be major attendance by "VIPs" (rattles of a list of streamers plus George Ledoux). 50% growth in size year on year. It's a bigger venue/hotel.

(10 minute mark)

MechCon will be 12 hours - noon to midnight. HBS, Catalyst Games and PGI will there.

Daeron wants to talk about MWO. Russ would prefer to talk about other participants first. Russ wants to know from Daeron what Catalyst are planning to show because Daeron has been to more MechCon meetings than Russ (!) Daeron replies they will be showing off their tabletop gaming (surprise!) in a bigger booth than last year.

nVidia is supplying the PCs to be used in demos and WC.

HBS are going to have multi- and singleplayer versions of their game available on 10 machines. Russ speculates that it will be a fairly-close-to-final version of BattleTech. HBS will also give a presentation from the stage.

More about how MechCon has grown. "Everything's just bigger and better, Daeron!" says Russ.

An MWO city map is coming up, by the same designers who gave us Rubellite Oasis. Map with some gameplay footage will be shown at Mech Con. Artistically it "might surprise people". Russ has "some nervousness" about it. (ominous?) Russ isn't sure when it will be patched in. He was originally targeting Feb, but now thinks it will be March.

"A lot of map work" besides the city map is going on. Paul is uncomfortable about this being discussed. Russ defers further questions to Paul. Paul doesn't want to discuss it.

(23 minute mark)

Phil wants to know more about Solaris and Mech personalisation. Paul just wants to avoid answering questions, and after a (tedious) minute asks Phil and Daeron to lay out what they think they know about it (FFS). More minutes of trying to get Paul to say something about anything. Eventually, even Russ gets mildly irritated by the level of non disclosure and asks Paul to say more.

Eventually it is disclosed that four other arenas (ie besides the already seen Steiner Arena) are planned. Each has a different theme. Paul helpfully discloses that one will have "a lot of dirt and rocks in it".

The bolt-on cosmetics that are being introduced along with Solaris wont affect hitboxes. They will fall off if hit. The bolt-ons are more than just new arms and legs. Many are ready already. Amazing Mech designs will be possible.

Some bolt-ons will look melee-like. However, Russ cautions us not to expect melee combat in Solaris. Makes a vague statement about Maybe One Day™. (pause while I repair the monitor that I just put my head through)

MWO will have some significant time on the stage: video on Solaris, video on new map, release month announcement for Solaris ("closer than most anticipate", further away than some might want)... "This is a BIG FEATURE. This is a MAJOR feature update." They are adding aspects to MWO that aren't directly related to Solaris... functionality to Mechs that is far-reaching.

"MWO is not the forgotten product. MWO is significant to us, still very important. MWO is still getting significant development time, resources and features development."

(34 minute mark)

Conversation moves to MW5... Alexander Garden was the pilot seen in the recent promo video. The purpose of the video was to give a sense of the scale, see map aesthetics and destructability, procedural map. Bombadil says there's "another year of development" ahead for MW5. Don't pick the video apart on gameplay matters. Criticism is premature.

Russ says the build featured in the video was a month ago. The demo he is playing today is 10x better than the one shown in the video. Demo will be playable at MechCon. The need to be ready for PC Gamer, then PolyGon then MechCon has really helped them push the game's development.

Russ "feels like he is one of us" in making the game we all want. He is trying to give players what we have always wanted. Says he is completely sincere in this. Discusses how MW games became more linear as they went on. Wants MW5 to be more open and free. MWO was the fulfillment of what Russ always wanted in a multiplayer environment. MW5 will be what Russ always wanted as a single player - replayability, run a business as an entrepreneur in the IS.

MW5 will have no loading screens.

(45 minute mark)

Engine choice is very important. PGI have enough expertise and staff to change the engine, BUT that takes up time and resources. For MW5 they want to use the engine "as is" so they can focus their dev time on the game and content.

Discussion about persistent immersion while playing MW5. Russ has always wanted to walk around the hangar, see his Mech being repaired, etc. Every time a Mech gets damaged, you'll feel it in not just in your Mech, but in your hip pocket as you manage your business.

4 map biomes will be playable at MechCon. Canyon, Mars, Moon, Earth-like Forest. The latter is the best looking one so far.

Replayability is critical. We are pushing hard for it and its turning out well. 40,50,60 hours of gameplay probably (this seems to relate to the length of your career in a single end to end game). You're running your Merc business. Your location in the IS will affect the chassis available, and the contracts/enemies you get.

Mentions "reaching Elite Status by end of your career time" might not be possible if you try to traverse the entire IS. But you can start in different places. Says the game "could be infinitely replayable".

Regarding what "procedural map" means for MW5... (Gist is that it's only half procedural in the way that many of us would understand.) They are using "rule based generation". Designers make the most interesting levels, but they don't have 20 years to build the game. So PGI are taking a mixed approach. Designers are creating the tilesets and rules for assembling them into maps. Biomes will be applicable to all tilesets.

Sentry posts, base locations, Mech opponents will vary by mission. (yay!)

(55 minute mark)

Russ is open to questions from chat. But cautions that he is holding news for MechCon and so may choose not to answer many questions.

MW5 is "you buy it and you own it". It is not F2P. It is a single purchase. Doesn't mean there won't be DLC. But DLC will be extra content (not loot crates). He doesn't know yet, but more traditional model, such as expansion packs.

Russ wants to take a break and confer privately. (Maybe Russ is counselling Paul over his almost complete non-contribution. Or maybe Paul is complaining to Russ about saying things :-)

(1hr 7 minute mark - podcast resumes)

There will be a MechLab in MW5. Your Mechs will be constantly getting damaged. Unlike MWO, you have to repair. MWO has an "insane" level of customisation as it adds unending depth. But MW5 has a different reliance to achieve its variety... lore and marketplace.

Marketplace will be a critical aspect of MW5. Purchasable goods will constantly update based on period of time, location in space, etc. It will be a big deal when you eventually see a Mech with a tech upgrade like Ferro. In the marketplace, different manufacturers will offer different versions of the weapons. Technicians (that you apparently will need to hire) will have different expertises with different weapons and manufacturers. The marketplace can't be overwhelmed by too much customisability, so it has to be different to MWO.

Russ says there are still some major announcements to be made at MechCon.

Phil and Daeron wax lyrical about how happy they are with what they've heard, and how important it is, that MW5 will have depth in terms of equipment, economy, logistics, replayability etc... things missing from MWO.

On this Russ says MW5 isn't just about taking missions, fight Mechs, come back. Managing how little damage you take also matters a lot due to the economy. Fighting is a consequence of the mission, not the only goal of the mission. Eg. some missions might be to destroy farms and you can choose whether to engage with defenders or not.

Will there be moral choices? Will you have a relationship with your unit's mercs? Russ is vague and his reply suggests "no". It will be more basic ... "reputation level with different Houses".

Russ invites design/mission suggestions via his Twitter.

(1 hour 24 minute mark)

MW5 will be available on Steam and elsewhere, including a PGI portal. It will require Steam as PGI want to use the Steam API 100% for features like friend lists.

There will be a Solaris 1v1 Arena at MechCon. Preview of what you can do in the new MWO Mech Bay (part of the Solaris patch) will be shown at MechCon.

Russ enjoys an existentially philosophical moment... "When I die of a heart attack who will take the MechCon torch forward?" (Clarifies that he is not alluding to a genuine health issue.) "Sometimes it's cool to reflect on the last 6 years of being immersed in BattleTech. We've accomplished a lot. That's really cool I think."

Hosts and guests express love for the WC finalist teams, most of whom they will see again at MechCon.

(1 hour 33 minute mark)

More MechCon hype. Logistics of the event. List of VIPs. Decision not to announce Mech Pack today.

Thank you sponsors, don't forget to subscribe, etc.

Thanks for the transcript.

Hey, there is a lot of cool stuff coming. Different manufacturers! Am I the only person here hyped for MW5?

[Khobai]

Quote

Am I the only person here hyped for MW5?

yes.

[Kaldar Tatrient]

Namaste Nameste Forumwarriors

[Valdarion Silarius]

Bud Crue, on 02 December 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

You may be right but if Solaris is going to focus on 1v1 and 2v2 play, then I don't see the nerfs and other changes being a big impactor on such matches. There has to be more to it than that, otherwise it is just simple misunderstanding of their own game mechanics.

I mean none of the nerfs, not one, do anything to cut down on clan alpha potential for example. If these +70 point alphas are maintained then maximizing the battle space is a nonissue. 2-4 shots and done for most matches in the 1v1 and 2v2 setting. There is no way PGI can or will nerf those weapons and mechs to such an extent that they will some how be a less significant factor in the Solaris mode as currently proposed. If Solaris is the prime mover of the recent nerfs then the VAST majority of mechs in the game will be out classed -even within their as yet unknown tiers- relative to their betters.

So much would need to change, and frankly in the direction of buffs not nerfs to make a lot of mechs viable in that setting; and PGI has given no indication of a plan to provide massive buffs to crap mechs, and crap weapons but instead keep nerfing the under performers and mediocre of both. That can't be good for expanding the proposed "battle space" of Solaris, when the top is just so much better than everything else and PGI keeps changing things to make that difference even more pronounced.

Frankly I don't care as to the why. I want it fixed. Now. Not after Solaris. Not after MW5 drops. I want to have a reason to play more than a handful of mechs and builds. I want PGI to give me a reason to believe that they have some inkling of a plan and that plan actually involves a whiff of effort at making things balanced. If they want me to send time and no small amount of continued spending on this game they need to do this and do it pretty damn quick.

At least I got an explanation of why so many weapon systems were nerfed now. They were doing it because of Solaris Arena(™) after all this time. Ironic, since I don't think too many people are going to enjoy Solaria Arena if their mechs are going to periodically shut down due to ghost heat on top of all the nerfs. Going to predict that Solaris Arena is going to be FP 2.0 syndrome all over again.

[Khobai]

solaris is going to be terrible

matches will last about 30 seconds

unless they nerf weapons in an extreme way and ban consumables

I dont understand why the game needs 1v1 or 2v2 when it should be focusing on making 8v8 and 12v12 better.

We need some serious quality of life improvements for quickplay/factionplay that arnt getting done now (like fixing incursion/escort). Fixing IS vs Clan balance. The skill tree and quirks still need a lot of work as well. Solaris really should not be on the forefront of development when the game has defunct gamemodes and glaring balance issues still.

Edited by Khobai, 02 December 2017 - 09:06 AM.

[Nomad One]

So we can expect 2018 to have a map or two for quick play, a game mode that will be a ghost town a few weeks to a couple months after its release, and cosmetic hats you can duct tape on the coat hanger looking robots which end up falling off when shot anyway?

Yikes. Not a lot to look forward to.

[Koniving]

Appogee, on 02 December 2017 - 05:59 AM, said:

Picture me biting my tongue.


If I understood them correctly, what they're doing can barely be described as 'procedural' in the way most of us would understand that term.

They are creating tilesets, and designers are going to assemble those tilesets into a library of tile layouts which form the base map. Once the basic tileset is assembled into a map, the game will then 'decorate' the tiles with one of four sets of biome textures.

This "is" proceedural, but not so much as what we first saw when we saw Star Citizen 2.whatever with entering the atmosphere and it's being made as you travel in the sense of 2016. As you can see, it is somewhat barren but it looks cool with natural settings.


Instead, what we're seeing is more akin to this.. Digging for the devs doing it is too much of a pain, but you can see samples in this short vid, wait for the buildings to start appearing from empty space. Notice how it is done in tiles? If anyone played Time Splitters (any of them), then you may be familiar with the tile-based map maker, where you have corners sections, etc. with everything based on metrics of one square, four squares, or a LOT of squares, each with connecting opening sides and if an open side has nothing hooked to it then it just cuts off with a wall or other dead end. Star Citizen's cities uses a similar minecraft system of defining each square which gives the rules, click craft, and bam. Then as you approach some buildings, an interior of a certain sort is randomly chosen and placed when you go to open the door. In another video it was shown that the same basic blocked out layout could then have (they showed 6 different tilesets) which make them look like completely different places...despite having the exact same layout.

The way the tiles spawn at 7:50+ is very likely the way MW5: Mercs will 'load' outside of your ship as you walk about it while waiting to land. That displays the city building tool they use, just imagine having the tiles for specific areas defined with some set guaranteed paths, and then the rest of it just kinda 'spawns' a random procedural landscape to go alongside it which may vary.

So you have the procedurally generated with rules in a tileset form. Here's the basic tileset. These points are raised. These go into the ground. This area is a base with fortifications. These are the areas that objectives might pop up depending on the mission type. These areas MUST have clear paths to ensure the player can reach them. Make a few dozen to a few hundred of these simple tile layouts. Then in game... You set for a mission. Map tileset (Biome) is Canyon. Day time. Raining. Kurita base (all base related and city related elements spawn "Kurita" themed stuff).

The exact same basic layout could be reused and yet look different when done as a Forest in Marik space. You'd never even know you're in basically the same place because the proceedural elements of tilesets changed things around, some streets aren't there anymore, all the buildings look different, there are trees instead of rocks, etc.

If we look at it in a Strict Tile form... Imagine if you took Caustic Valley and then said "Forest." and replaced the facilities there with "Farming village." You'd still have that big crater in the middle, though now it might be an inactive volcano, or a mountain, or maybe under the Forest tileset that same area is actually redefined as "Really ******* Deep Lake."

Here's a strict Tile based map maker in action.

The big *** area, you could consider to be the Caldera that turns into a big *** lake when you change the Biome.

Since it is a tile based ruleset with procedural generation rather than a straight tile system, they place the parts they really want to define... and anything not defined (including specifically designated to have connecting paths in the case of enclosed areas and road definitions) is then filled with procedural generation.

Russ's frequently mentioned Mechwarrior 1 is a great example. The maps actually look like a flat plane on the ground. Like your minimap. But it is what you walk on. You can see shapes for buildings and such but they aren't there due to the limits of a 1989 game on PC that is already pushing 3D mechs and 3D projectiles on MUCH less than 16 megabytes of RAM.

Basically you have a tile based hand-drawn map of only where important things should be. For example. Hospital needs to be here. These can be any buildings of set types. Roads should look like this. Maybe a set mountain range before you get there to make sure you have to get to it fro

m a certain angle.It is then perhaps told where barriers are, where possible landing points (and escape points) are. And any specific path information. Beyond that, hit generate and it fills in the rest with semi-interesting crap.

Edited by Koniving, 02 December 2017 - 09:29 AM.

[Asym]

You are correct ! A 1x1 or any other combination wouldn't last very long at all where we are today... i.e. a full up Night Gyr double Gauss/PPC turns at the buzzer and head shoots a comeptitor immediately...........10 seconds later another finishes that match at a distance the competition can't even fight at. Just a hokey example OK..... What PGI needs are "stompy robots" that can last for 10 minutes or more (and, run out of ballastic ammo - best case) so they can "sell stuff" to make your experience easier or more efficient...

Again, to make Solaris a real player experience, PGI is going to have to reduce the effective ranges, shot placement precision and effectiveness of the weapons and mobility currently 'in-play".

HOW? Gosh, I am only guessing.

[Khobai]

Quote

Again, to make Solaris a real player experience, PGI is going to have to reduce the effective ranges, shot placement precision and effectiveness of the weapons and mobility currently 'in-play".

even if they did all that and slowed it down, it would still be boring because 1v1 just isnt engaging at all.

what made solaris fun in MW4 is that it was 8 mech free-for-all

it was chaotic and hectic. you had to have good situational awareness of all the mechs in the arena. you had to employ every trick you knew to stay alive and outsurvive all the other mechs.

adding solaris but not free-for-all is just mindboggling... if youre going to add solaris at least do it right so people will want to play it and it wont just turn into a ghost bucket.


the way solaris should work is like this:

starts out as an 8 mech free for all. the top 4 players from that round get qualified for the next round which is a 4 mech free for all. then the top two players advance to a third round which is a 1v1. so each solaris match would consist of three rounds.

your rank increase would be based on your placement in each round. with subsequent rounds giving bigger rank increases.

I mean you could still do the 1v1 and 2v2 ladders as their own thing too... but those shouldnt be the main content of the expansion. FFA coliseum should be the main content of solaris.

Edited by Khobai, 02 December 2017 - 09:25 AM.

[s0da72]

Appogee, on 02 December 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

Don't think it will improve your enjoyment of the game, but I expect:

• 8v8 in QP.

Voila! Are you not entertained?!

I think I'd find more enjoyment having my hand getting slammed in a car door, then seeing QP go 8v8..

[Koniving]

Asym, on 02 December 2017 - 09:07 AM, said:

You are correct ! A 1x1 or any other combination wouldn't last very long at all where we are today... i.e. a full up Night Gyr double Gauss/PPC turns at the buzzer and head shoots a comeptitor immediately...........10 seconds later another finishes that match at a distance the competition can't even fight at. Just a hokey example OK..... What PGI needs are "stompy robots" that can last for 10 minutes or more (and, run out of ballastic ammo - best case) so they can "sell stuff" to make your experience easier or more efficient...

Again, to make Solaris a real player experience, PGI is going to have to reduce the effective ranges, shot placement precision and effectiveness of the weapons and mobility currently 'in-play".

HOW? Gosh, I am only guessing.

One on one combat in MWO is actually very protracted and intense, provided... that we aren't using cheese.

being cheese...

as not cheese.

Admittedly things like turning the HUD off really increase time to kill, though good fights are possible without arbitrary fire control and turning off huds.

Stock mode in Solaris should be really fun, though.

[Broganos]

Thanks for the transcript, very much appreciated.

[Khobai]

Quote

One on one combat in MWO is actually very protracted and intense, provided... that we aren't using cheese.

but people will use cheese.

solaris would probably be fine if you could get everyone to agree to use suboptimal loadouts with gems such as the LB20X

but thats not going to happen.

people will use whatever combination of weapons kills other mechs the quickest. and matches will be neither prolonged nor intense. assuming both players are of equal skill level, it will just be whoever can get their alpha off first. that is boring.


again if youre going to do solaris, do it right, have 8 mech free for alls. Having only 1v1 and 2v2 is way too banal.

Solaris matches should go three rounds with the top half advancing to the next round. So 8 mech FFA then 4 mech FFA then 1v1. And your ranking increases based on placement in each round with later rounds being worth more.

thats a better way of testing a player's skill as well. because youre testing their skill on multiple levels not just their ability to 1v1. skills like heat management become more relevant too when theres multiple mechs you have to kill. you cant just design a mech that delivers maximum alphas and overheats.

1v1 and 2v2 sucks. we need free for all. its the only way solaris should be done.

Edited by Khobai, 02 December 2017 - 10:29 AM.

[TLBFestus]

Thanks for sitting through that for those of us who couldn't or wouldn't.

Two things caught my eye in your transcript;

Quote

"MWO is not the forgotten product. MWO is significant to us, still very important. MWO is still getting significant development time, resources and features development."

Any time someone feels the need to address something in this fashion, I get the feeling that they are trying to buttress up something that needs help. Instead of convincing me that all is right, I start to wonder just what's wrong.

Quote

Bombadil says there's "another year of development" ahead for MW5. Don't pick the video apart on gameplay matters. Criticism is premature.

That may be true, but the opposite is equally accurate in that it's too early to be praising it either. As well, if you have been around long enough to experience PGIs questionable track record of implementation of virtually every thing they've ever done, I'd say that you are better off staying in the "cautious/doubtful" camp than the cheer-leaders section. As to all the big significant things coming I can only refer back to the total clusterchunk that is now called Faction Play, it too was going to be a big, big deal and look what we got.

Talk is cheap, I measure promises made by people based on their past, and the only thing I can speak with is my wallet, and it will remain firmly shut until ("I'm one of you!") Russ and (Chatty Kathy) Paul release their game and I can judge it for myself. I've been burnt by what they say and what they deliver far too many times to do anything else.

Edited by TLBFestus, 02 December 2017 - 10:59 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Bud Crue, on 02 December 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

You may be right but if Solaris is going to focus on 1v1 and 2v2 play, then I don't see the nerfs and other changes being a big impactor on such matches. There has to be more to it than that, otherwise it is just simple misunderstanding of their own game mechanics. I mean none of the nerfs, not one, do anything to cut down on clan alpha potential for example. If these +70 point alphas are maintained then maximizing the battle space is a nonissue. 2-4 shots and done for most matches in the 1v1 and 2v2 setting. There is no way PGI can or will nerf those weapons and mechs to such an extent that they will some how be a less significant factor in the Solaris mode as currently proposed. If Solaris is the prime mover of the recent nerfs then the VAST majority of mechs in the game will be out classed -even within their as yet unknown tiers- relative to their betters. So much would need to change, and frankly in the direction of buffs not nerfs to make a lot of mechs viable in that setting; and PGI has given no indication of a plan to provide massive buffs to crap mechs, and crap weapons but instead keep nerfing the under performers and mediocre of both. That can't be good for expanding the proposed "battle space" of Solaris, when the top is just so much better than everything else and PGI keeps changing things to make that difference even more pronounced. Frankly I don't care as to the why. I want it fixed. Now. Not after Solaris. Not after MW5 drops. I want to have a reason to play more than a handful of mechs and builds. I want PGI to give me a reason to believe that they have some inkling of a plan and that plan actually involves a whiff of effort at making things balanced. If they want me to send time and no small amount of continued spending on this game they need to do this and do it pretty damn quick.

Well the podcast was clearly meant to promote Mechcon and the newer things to be revealed there. They should get Chris on a separate podcast and really let us know what's going on. Personally I like balance changes. Keeps things fresh. But it would be nice to know what direction balance is heading. Is this the status quo or will they flip the table on us again? What about tech balance?

Xetelian, on 02 December 2017 - 05:04 AM, said:

I am also quite worried about the Repair and Rearm and economy in MW5. A good question would be "can you end up stuck and unable to proceed with a play through? How easy will it be to lose like this? How dependent are good results and progression based on how good a pilot you are? Will lower skill players ever be able to reach elite? This really makes me long for the days with story missions and linear game play. Less replay value, maybe, but you don't have to start from scratch because you stretched your resources too thin, if that is the case.

What in the...if you can't get elite status, then you're not elite. That's the point. Its something to strive for. If you fail, you start again with the lessons you learned from your first play through.

But they'll probably have easy, medium, hard settings like in the old days. So everyone can be 'elite'.

[MischiefSC]

Juodas Varnas, on 02 December 2017 - 03:36 AM, said:

Nothing about quads?

That's a lame podcast.

Every podcast has a bit about quads, it's just assumed -

Which is "lol no. Never."