81 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

sycocys, on 06 December 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

you don't need to track anything manually, just write a macro that makes the mouse move to your tap

basically the same thing an aimbot does, but you choose the aimpoint to snap to - and should easily fall under the macro rules because you are inputting the action

in mwo you need to track. Both to keep the damage duration on target and because your mech dont aim super fast like in other fps. You cant just click a mech, you need to keep it on the target when he and you move.

[DAYLEET]

Yeonne Greene, on 06 December 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

Nope. You don't need to feel the mouse at all, all you need to do is be able to correlate the motion of your hand with the motion of the cursor. Having more or less mass is irrelevant to that process, having more does make the momentum in your hand an impediment to precision when you are making fast motions back and forth.

I entirely disagree. I know what i need. Ive been using mouse and playing fps since the 90s and every time i got a new mouse it got a little heavier. And it never made me worse or better at aiming BUT i do prefer a little weight and tracking on the pad over none. My Lachesis used to move to the bass because of a super expensive pad that i used a whole week. The only thing that ever made a difference for me was the cord. stiffer and heavier cord were always bad and actually influenced the mouse movement. OCZ Triple Threat was the best as far as the cord was involved and going to cordless was a blessing. I waited long to go cordless because of bad rap but really the g700s is the best mouse ive ever used.

[Satan n stuff]

Yeonne Greene, on 06 December 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

Using your lower arm to move the mouse is exactly what you are supposed to do to avoid such injury. Using your wrist is how you get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

Actually no, people tend to keep their arm raised if they continuously need to move the mouse ( like for example in a video game ) and they can't do it with relatively minor movements. This is what causes most mouse related RSI. Personally I have a very good mouse, I aim using only my fingers.

[JC Daxion]

Jun Watarase, on 06 December 2017 - 06:53 AM, said:

Wouldnt reducing mouse sensitivity have the same effect as changing DPI?

I guess it would depend on the mouse.. BUT two issues. going into windows every time you play the game, because have you ever tried playing other games that didn't need it, like say a turn based strat game, or web browsing when your mouse is a snail?

the second part, i could never find the right speed, and i messed with it a ton. but that leads me back to point 1, changing it every time i played in windows just sucked. The in game was already at the lowest, so the mouse IMO was the better option.

Yeonne Greene, on 06 December 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

Nope. You don't need to feel the mouse at all, all you need to do is be able to correlate the motion of your hand with the motion of the cursor. Having more or less mass is irrelevant to that process, having more does make the momentum in your hand an impediment to precision when you are making fast motions back and forth.

Well seeing i've used the tiny mouse that was barely a half inch longer than my fingers weighing 2.5 ounces and 3 1/4 inches long. The new mouse is 4.1 ounces, and 5 inches at the base, and about 6, when you go over the top accounting for the curve. Ergonomics is actually a thing.

The lighter mouse in just testing is so light it is very hard to make a smooth move with zero stutter, and the simple fact that my palm was always hitting the desk top, which also effected its movement. So yes, having a Feel to the mouse is a huge difference. I just never realized how much it effected it, because for the most part, i didn't even know there were different size mice in the first place.


Its just like typing on a keyboard. I picked up an extra one for my comp when i bought this mouse for 10 bucks, and it is so different it makes it difficult to type.. I had to go on E-bay, and spend 40 bucks on a keyboard that's over 15 years old because i like it so much. (yes it is a brand new Labtec, which was bought out by logictec a very long time ago) I've looked many times for the exact keyboard and not found one. I got lucky, so hopefully i'll having the same working keyboard for the next 20-30 years.

[Lightfoot]

No, get a good Joystick. I use the Thrustmaster T-16000m which is cheap but uses a very precise magnetic tracker so nearly absolute positioning. Add the TARGET Profiler that comes with it and you have refined axis control with Curves and Deadzones. Just remember to flip the X-Axis to the Analog Turn function and give Torso-Twist to the RZ axis.

Mouse may be a few nano seconds faster at aiming, but the Joystick gives you much steadier aiming. Plus when your mech starts up the pilot does not grab a mouse, she/he grabs a Joystick. With good reason, Joystick gives you the Mech-Sim experience.

Only caveat is the 16000m has a strong return spring until it breaks in.

[Nemesis Duck]

I liked mice with symetric button layouts, meaning same buttons on either side to accomidate left and right handed players. I thought it worked well amongst the various configs for corners and peeking.

[mogs01gt]

I used a ball mouse that has 4 buttons on it.

[Mystere]

Asym, on 06 December 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

Mice ! I want a fully programmable flight stick so people with hand handicaps can actually play one handed..... I couldn't get my flight stick to work so I use the Logitec 300 series gaming mouse. cheap and it works.

That's what Thrustmaster sticks the TARGET software are for.

Lightfoot, on 07 December 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

No, get a good Joystick. I use the Thrustmaster T-16000m which is cheap but uses a very precise magnetic tracker so nearly absolute positioning. Add the TARGET Profiler that comes with it and you have refined axis control with Curves and Deadzones. Just remember to flip the X-Axis to the Analog Turn function and give Torso-Twist to the RZ axis.

See what I mean?

Lightfoot, on 07 December 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

Only caveat is the 16000m has a strong return spring until it breaks in.

Gift yourself a Warthog joystick and a stick extension.

Edited by Mystere, 07 December 2017 - 01:34 PM.

[Mystere]

arcana75, on 06 December 2017 - 06:33 PM, said:

I've tried playing the same game using a touchscreen vs a mouse, and the mouse is superior.

How about giving this a try?:

DAYLEET, on 06 December 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

in mwo you need to track. Both to keep the damage duration on target and because your mech dont aim super fast like in other fps. You cant just click a mech, you need to keep it on the target when he and you move.

See above.

Edited by Mystere, 07 December 2017 - 01:27 PM.

[Its my first day]

Jun Watarase, on 06 December 2017 - 06:53 AM, said:

Wouldnt reducing mouse sensitivity have the same effect as changing DPI?

No, DPI is the amt a mouse polls, or checks it location, or whatever you call it. Not an expert (obviously), but as I understand it, you want low sensitivity with high DPI as your mouse is very accurately locating itself during the smaller, lower sensitivity moves you make, which allows you to move precisely.

And if anyone is interested in upgrading, keep an eye on logitech mice during the holidays, they often go on sale and they're very good. The G502s were like $30 on black Friday at best buy, I was tempted to get another at that price.

[Satan n stuff]

Lightfoot, on 07 December 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

No, get a good Joystick. I use the Thrustmaster T-16000m which is cheap but uses a very precise magnetic tracker so nearly absolute positioning. Add the TARGET Profiler that comes with it and you have refined axis control with Curves and Deadzones. Just remember to flip the X-Axis to the Analog Turn function and give Torso-Twist to the RZ axis.

Mouse may be a few nano seconds faster at aiming, but the Joystick gives you much steadier aiming. Plus when your mech starts up the pilot does not grab a mouse, she/he grabs a Joystick. With good reason, Joystick gives you the Mech-Sim experience.

Only caveat is the 16000m has a strong return spring until it breaks in.

TARGET is absolutely worthless. Tried using it with my HOTAS set for Star Citizen and it disabled half the axes on my throttle. Also joystick aiming is actually pretty terrible compared to mouse aiming.

[Bill Lumbar]

I have had several gaming mice in the last few years of MWO. Yes, having a good gaming mouse does make a huge difference, but the tips given here also makes a huge difference. I am now using a Logitech G502 wired mouse and I love it. If you find yourself wanting more buttons, make the next jump and use a flight stick. I have over 15 button options, I use the hud switch for target toggling, night and thermal vision, and arm lock..... works like a charm. Every option i need to play the game is on my right hand mouse, or on my left hand with my flight stick. I can't even imagine playing with keyboard and mouse on this game.

I also made custom foot peddles that let me use voice chat, and I have it programmed for jump jets. I tore apart a Logitech racing wheel, and a dell keyboard, and soldered the right wire combos for the A, S, D, W keystrokes and got buttons from radioshack and put them in the foot peddles. I can program them just like a keyboard stroke, works perfect! Got all this from goodwill, less than $10 bucks. I started out using a throttle stick, and X52 and used the peddles to turn left and right with my legs.... it got to be a serious work out. I put that idea on the back burners and just went with using them for extra "buttons".

I have also modded several flight sticks over the years, cutting the shafts, rewiring them, and making them in an horizontal position vs. Vertical.... the one I have stuck with is a Logitech Extreme.... and it works the best. I have the X52, and a Thrustmaster 1600 I picked up at goodwill for $10 bucks, and several others. The Logitech Extreme seems to give the best button options, placement, and over all comfort and response for left hand/leg movement, IMO. It has 16 buttons that can be programmed a lone and my G502 mouse has 8 buttons that can be programmed. With the extra 2 with the foot peddles, that's 26 buttons total that I can program that allow me to keep both hands on the flight stick and mouse.... I think that covers almost any option MWO gives that really matter.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 07 December 2017 - 03:21 PM.

[ocular tb]

Bill Lumbar, on 07 December 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

I have had several gaming mice in the last few years of MWO. Yes, having a good gaming mouse does make a huge difference, but the tips given here also makes a huge difference. I am now using a Logitech G502 wired mouse and I love it. If you find yourself wanting more buttons, make the next jump and use a flight stick. I have over 15 button options, I use the hud switch for target toggling, night and thermal vision, and arm lock..... works like a charm. Every option i need to play the game is on my right hand mouse, or on my left hand with my flight stick. I can't even imagine playing with keyboard and mouse on this game.

I also made custom foot peddles that let me use voice chat, and I have it programmed for jump jets. I tore apart a Logitech racing wheel, and a dell keyboard, and soldered the right wire combos for the A, S, D, W keystrokes and got buttons from radioshack and put them in the foot peddles. I can program them just like a keyboard stroke, works perfect! Got all this from goodwill, less than $10 bucks. I started out using a throttle stick, and X52 and used the peddles to turn left and right with my legs.... it got to be a serious work out. I put that idea on the back burners and just went with using them for extra "buttons".

I have also modded several flight sticks over the years, cutting the shafts, rewiring them, and making them in an horizontal position vs. Vertical.... the one I have stuck with is a Logitech Extreme.... and it works the best. I have the X52, and a Thrustmaster 1600 I picked up at goodwill for $10 bucks, and several others. The Logitech Extreme seems to give the best button options, placement, and over all comfort and response for left hand/leg movement, IMO.

I didn't go as far as you did but I use a Saitek S290 with 6 buttons and 4 hat switch positions which seems to be adequate for my most commonly used mech functions. As it is now I use it for throttle, turning, jump jets, targeting, push-to-talk, torso centering, night vision, heat vision, command wheel, UAV, air strike, and the last one is kind of a spare that I currently use for cool shot but will change it to something else as needed depending on the mech and situation. I like that I can do all of those things (except jump jets) with just my thumb and don't end up hitting the wrong keys on the keyboard.

[Bill Lumbar]

The only thing left for me to do is build a sim pit..... I have wanted to do this, but I just do not really play this game much anymore. Not like I used to 2 years ago. I might get on and drop maybe 3 games a week vs. hours played per night 2 years ago. I just got a new AOC 35" Ultra wide with G-sync at 100hz at 1440P, and dropped 3 games last night. I was using a BenQ 1440p 32" at 60hz and the difference is night and day... I might start playing more just to test the new monitor, but TBH, really not seeing much reason to play like I used to anymore. This game is fun, but its not what it should of been.

Very first game I dropped in a few weeks after getting the new monitor last night.... I dropped with TheB33F.... we was on the same team, and I ran a cheesy Kitfox build with ecm, and LRM's just for $hits and giggles, I never play Lrm builds.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 07 December 2017 - 03:49 PM.

[So You Say]

Bill Lumbar, on 07 December 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

snip

Every option i need to play the game is on my right hand mouse, or on my left hand with my flight stick. I can't even imagine playing with keyboard and mouse on this game.

snip

So you use a mouse in your right hand and a flight stick for you left? How are you separating the functions between the flight stick and mouse? Is the mouse for aiming and the flight stick for movement? Very interesting indeed.

[Bill Lumbar]

ocular tb, on 07 December 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

I didn't go as far as you did but I use a Saitek S290 with 6 buttons and 4 hat switch positions which seems to be adequate for my most commonly used mech functions. As it is now I use it for throttle, turning, jump jets, targeting, push-to-talk, torso centering, night vision, heat vision, command wheel, UAV, air strike, and the last one is kind of a spare that I currently use for cool shot but will change it to something else as needed depending on the mech and situation. I like that I can do all of those things (except jump jets) with just my thumb and don't end up hitting the wrong keys on the keyboard.

I used a Saitek for a while when I first started playing, I modded it with the horizontal shaft, I liked it, honestly it is my second choice only due to lack of buttons vs the Logitech Extreme. Very good flight stick, I think its the X290?

[Bill Lumbar]

So You Say, on 07 December 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

So you use a mouse in your right hand and a flight stick for you left? How are you separating the functions between the flight stick and mouse? Is the mouse for aiming and the flight stick for movement? Very interesting indeed.

Yep, That is how I run it, and it works way better IMO. I just can't play this game, or any game that even remotely resembles a sim with a keyboard. Keyboard and mouse just isn't the way to go. Joystick for aiming isn't either, unless something has changed with support, or people figuring out ways to make it work like should. Some have gone to extremes with Warthogs and modded them, and claim they work very well. IDK.... I have not dropped $400+ on a warthog flight stick. I believe the ones who have modded them, in fact are just as good as using a mouse for aim, but it takes a lot of custom work, and modding the software to get it right. If I was gonna take the time to build a sim for this game, I would go that option.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 07 December 2017 - 03:57 PM.

[ocular tb]

Bill Lumbar, on 07 December 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

I used a Saitek for a while when I first started playing, I modded it with the horizontal shaft, I liked it, honestly it is my second choice only due to lack of buttons vs the Logitech Extreme. Very good flight stick, I think its the X290?

ST290 PRO. Removed the hand rest so it would work for left hand and I cut the spring down a little bit so it wasn't so stiff/heavy.

So You Say, on 07 December 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

So you use a mouse in your right hand and a flight stick for you left? How are you separating the functions between the flight stick and mouse? Is the mouse for aiming and the flight stick for movement? Very interesting indeed.

As Bill responded, that's how I do it too. Right hand is mouse with 4 fire buttons and scroll wheel button is for zoom. Left hand stick is for all the other functions I mentioned above.

[Bill Lumbar]

It just works so well I find modding the stick so it is in a horizontal position vs. a vertical just feels so much better with this game. My wrist do not get as sore, if at all..... and I used to drop for like 5-8 hours a night back in 2015. lol Like I said....only thing left to do is build a sim pit, I want to do it... I have always wanted to, but PGI needs to step up their game man! There should be a lot more to this game than, "do you want to buy another mech pack?" I promise this time it will be different.....

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 07 December 2017 - 04:05 PM.

[ocular tb]

Nice setup. I should do more with my setup but space is kind of at a premium at the moment. Some day though!