466 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

Why are we necroing a three month old thread, anyway?

And no, those are not "good with LRMs". They might be "OK, I can use these with other weapons somewhat" but those games were not what we call stellar examples of deadly gameplay.

[Wil McCullough]

Brain Cancer, on 12 March 2018 - 06:37 PM, said:

Why are we necroing a three month old thread, anyway?

And no, those are not "good with LRMs". They might be "OK, I can use these with other weapons somewhat" but those games were not what we call stellar examples of deadly gameplay.

op necro-ed his own thread lol.

[Sug]

Edited by Sug, 12 March 2018 - 06:59 PM.

[Dragonporn]

Occasional lurmer here. I don't claim they are as bad as people think they are, but rather extremely situational weapon system, shining real bright if, as said before, stars align.

What is pretty confusing for me, is that LRM general role supposed to be suppression weapon, to force enemies in cover, that's how some folks put it, in any case. But in my own practice, LRM general purpose is heavy DPS, because mostly with lurms, on particular maps me, and other pilots manage to break 1k+ damage records. Best thing about it is how damage generally spreads. Assaults and Heavies getting their CT and STs damaged the most, while Light and fast Mediums mainly get most hits in legs. Again, as practice shows, for heavier mechs, main component that gets shot at the most is CT, and most reliable components to go for are STs, while fast movers' most vulnerable points are legs. So lurms soften up these points really quick and well or deliver killing blows to already beaten ones.

There are lots of complaints about lurmers, pointing out that they tend to stay away from combat and don't share armor, which is understandable. But from another perspective, if team's main source of heavy DPS, shares armor, it risks losing weapons, and getting denied to deliver this very DPS because mech is forced to twist and maneuver, which makes holding locks and consistent output of missiles stream - impossible. On top of that, if somebody manages to jam it up close, LRM boat is toast.

I have hard time imagining how this particular weapon system can be balanced to be good in most scenarios, while not being overpowered as hell...

[JRcam4643]

Wil McCullough, on 12 March 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

What's with lurm enthusiasts and mental gymnastics?! We claim they are no good because we're afraid of them?!

Do you know what the average gamer does when he's scared of a weapon? He calls for nerfs. Do you know what we lum haters do?

We call for buffs to lurms.

That's because we think they're a **** weapon. That's why we claim they're a **** weapon. IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. Pun intended.

Jesus christ. It's the entire opposite conclusion.

This is frigging mind boggling. And you're not the first "lurms are good" person to do it. It's actually quite common. So much so that there's definitely some kind of co-relation between a pilot's ability to process information (or not) and their usage of lurms.

This is not normal.

This was never about showing stellar moments it's about showing I can use LRMs as primary and still be above average in damage numbers most of the time.

[Brain Cancer]

JRcam4643, on 12 March 2018 - 07:22 PM, said:

This was never about showing stellar moments it's about showing I can use LRMs as primary and still be above average in damage numbers most of the time.

LRMs generally get plenty of damage.

The problem has always been where said damage gets placed. Nothing pads damage scores like LRM boating, because for every point in a critical spot, you probably put three somewhere else.

[Yosharian]

ATMs are almost decent if the enemy has no AMS

which is very unlikely at the moment

everything else that's guided is complete trash

Brain Cancer, on 12 March 2018 - 08:32 PM, said:

LRMs generally get plenty of damage.

The problem has always been where said damage gets placed. Nothing pads damage scores like LRM boating, because for every point in a critical spot, you probably put three somewhere else.

No matter how many times people make the point that LRMs are mass spread damage and when you spread damage your damage score doesn't mean ****, people like that will always insist that they are being effective if they do 500 dmg.

[HauptmanT]

But... there are old fogeys like me who dont have the twitch any more. ACs give me like a 30% hit rate... I like really stink with them. Lasers are ok, because burn time gives me more time to align the shot. But Lurms actually make me useful.

Would you rather use your Laservomit on a fresh mech, or one that's all orange because you had me stripping some armor before the majority of the team could even see the target?

Yes lurms spread damage. Yes my k/d ratio sucks. Yes they are feast or famine. But last month, I played nothing but lurms, and my win/loss ratio skyrocketed for the month. So there is that.

https://leaderboard....rch?u=hauptmanT

edit; yes it's a small sample size, I havent been feeling it lately. But had I kept going with it, I have no doubt the trend would have continued. Get me into a heavy or assault lurm boat, and I'll win you some matches if I dont fxxk it up.

Edited by HauptmanT, 12 March 2018 - 09:50 PM.

[Yosharian]

HauptmanT, on 12 March 2018 - 09:31 PM, said:

But... there are old fogeys like me who dont have the twitch any more. ACs give me like a 30% hit rate... I like really stink with them. Lasers are ok, because burn time gives me more time to align the shot. But Lurms actually make me useful.

Would you rather use your Laservomit on a fresh mech, or one that's all orange because you had me stripping some armor before the majority of the team could even see the target?

Yes lurms spread damage. Yes my k/d ratio sucks. Yes they are feast or famine. But last month, I played nothing but lurms, and my win/loss ratio skyrocketed for the month. So there is that.

https://leaderboard....rch?u=hauptmanT

Use nothing but laser vomit for a month and see if your win/loss drops

[HauptmanT]

Yosharian, on 12 March 2018 - 09:36 PM, said:

Use nothing but laser vomit for a month and see if your win/loss drops

That would be the previous 3 months... I tried getting away from lurms.

[HauptmanT]

I own over 100 mechs, about 8-10 of them qualify as Lurm boats... LRM 30 mediums, or LRM 60 heavies/assaults.

After a thread about Jarls list, I was curious what lurming would do for my stats... I was quite shocked to see that w/l ratio TBH. But my best games have always been in the Scorch or Ebon Jag.

I can literally only recal 2 games that were "epic" with something other than lurms... once with a PPC Timberwolf, and once with a Large pulse Warhawk.

Edit; I was top 10 in the scorch during the release event with this build. Might have been able to steal the gold had I not been so concerned with getting a couple others on the list too.

Edited by HauptmanT, 12 March 2018 - 10:35 PM.

[Vellron2005]

HauptmanT, on 12 March 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

I own over 100 mechs, about 8-10 of them qualify as Lurm boats... LRM 30 mediums, or LRM 60 heavies/assaults.

After a thread about Jarls list, I was curious what lurming would do for my stats... I was quite shocked to see that w/l ratio TBH. But my best games have always been in the Scorch or Ebon Jag.

I can literally only recal 2 games that were "epic" with something other than lurms... once with a PPC Timberwolf, and once with a Large pulse Warhawk.

Edit; I was top 10 in the scorch during the release event with this build. Might have been able to steal the gold had I not been so concerned with getting a couple others on the list too.

Nice build. I'm sorry I don't own a scorch, I would play the hell out of that one using LRMs..

I have a suggestion for your build though.. remove the machine guns, and invest the tonnage into extra LRM ammo.. For an extra kick, switch to LAMS if the heat is not too bad..

You'd be amazed what an extra ton or a ton and a half can do..

Edited by Vellron2005, 13 March 2018 - 12:35 AM.

[HauptmanT]

The arms have heavy meds and LMGs now.

I wouldnt drop those MGs ever! They the only pinpoint damage I gots. Scored me plenty of kills, so worth the weight. LRMs just are really bad at dropping crit mechs.

[Vanguard319]

I've noticed if you're attacking in escort, a few missile boats are extremely effective, especially if you have a dedicated spotter. The VIP simply isn't smart enough to take cover as LRMs/ATMs rain down on it's head, and missiles can wreck armor pretty quickly.

[Darth Hotz]

I dont really mind if people use lurms. Just dont use an assault for it!!!

Lurms can be played well in heavies and mediums, there you also have the mobility to stay near your main group and support, while quicklyfinding better angles to bring the rain.

If you waste an assault as a lurmboat, you wasted 85-100 tons of armour that is needed to push the enemy. Because if there is one thing that tend to win games, its aggression. Hard to be aggressive if only heavies and meds are at the frontline, while the assaults stay in the back to fire lurms, without sharing armour.

Thats also the reason for the lrm hate. Its not the lrms, its that they get used with assaults. Just dont do it and noone ever will complain about you.

[Horseman]

Darth Hotz, on 13 March 2018 - 02:02 AM, said:

Thats also the reason for the lrm hate. Its not the lrms, its that they get used with assaults. Just dont do it and noone ever will complain about you.

It's not even that they get used with assaults... it's that many of the players who do it use it as an excuse to play passively and lob missiles blind (what I call "roleplaying a REMF" )

Darth Hotz, on 13 March 2018 - 02:02 AM, said:

If you waste an assault as a lurmboat, you wasted 85-100 tons of armour that is needed to push the enemy. Because if there is one thing that tend to win games, its aggression. Hard to be aggressive if only heavies and meds are at the frontline, while the assaults stay in the back to fire lurms, without sharing armour.

Aggression tends to win games even with lurmboats. I have one - and exactly one - LRM assault: the Awesome 8R. Used aggressively as something along the lines of a longer-range streakboat, it can be pretty devastating (bring your own TAG, get yer own damn locks).

Edited by Horseman, 13 March 2018 - 05:55 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

JRcam4643, on 12 March 2018 - 07:22 PM, said:

This was never about showing stellar moments it's about showing I can use LRMs as primary and still be above average in damage numbers most of the time.

There's a video that juju took of himself playing lurms while aiming using hia foot. 700 damage, 2 kills on mining iirc.

Yes. I'm serious.

Your lurm "highlight reel" shows you performing worse than a guy playing with his foot for **** and giggles.

Which is a problem and part of the reason why lurms are a terrible weapon. They have such a low skill floor that juju could pull that off, but also have such a low skill ceiling that they're near useless against average or better players. That's why its a feast or famine weapon. Its performance relies on how bad your opponents are, not how good you are. Meet a bunch of potatoes? You'll mash em even using your foot to play. Meet the average t2 and above pilots and you'll end up with 200 damage at the end of the match, out of which only 50 went to where you needed it to be.

There's a reason why most lurm fans have a negative wlr. It's because even with mm gravitating players to a 50-50 wlr, they are a net detriment to their team. Because their fanboying of lurms is what is holding their team back when they insist on dropping in lurmboats. This is coming from a guy whose unit took out juju's team in group queue with a 90% lurmboat team. I just have no illusions about how bad the weapon is.

If you're serious about playing lurms effectively, you have to use it like a rac. Midrange, stay with the team, direct-fire facetime. That's the only way to get your shots to land.

[Sjorpha]

They're just a bit underpowered, i have no other problems with lrms but they are currently way too weak to be a relevant weapon.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

JRcam4643, on 12 March 2018 - 07:22 PM, said:

This was never about showing stellar moments it's about showing I can use LRMs as primary and still be above average in damage numbers most of the time.

yes, and you're doing it -wrong-
sorry to be blunt, but those vids are a great example of "how to NOT lurm". it's because of people playing it like you that the rest of us don't like to have lurmers on the team;
-equip the basics, that is a TAG - plus a BAP if you bring your streaks/atms.
-do the basics, which is stay in/near the front and share armor.

as long as you keep playing it like that however, prepare for salty teammates and the occasional teamdamage; accidental, I'm sure

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 13 March 2018 - 03:53 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

But... there are old fogeys like me who dont have the twitch any more. ACs give me like a 30% hit rate... I like really stink with them. Lasers are ok, because burn time gives me more time to align the shot. But Lurms actually make me useful.

Swap them for ATMs. 24-48 of those have all the guided-missile love of LRMs, but better grouping and you actually get rewarded for closing into effective range with better damage. Higher velocity, too.

You won't one-shot a light with 80 LRMs. You'll obliterate it with 48 ATMs.

Spoiler

Keep your Artemis upgrade equipped, because PGI cannot into missile coding and you'll get the lock speed bonus even though ATMs supposedly have integrated Artemis anyway.