466 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

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Thats also the reason for the lrm hate. Its not the lrms, its that they get used with assaults. Just dont do it and noone ever will complain about you.

Catch-22: The weaker LRMs get, the more tubes (and tonnage) needed to effectively damage a target. At this point, even assaults have trouble, but we're at a point where anything less than ISLRM 30/CLRM 45 or so tends to be terrible damage. And that means more and more slow, fat lurmbombers out there trying to compensate. I mean, I've seen freaking LRM 80 Ebon Jaguars.

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There's a video that juju took of himself playing lurms while aiming using hia foot. 700 damage, 2 kills on mining iirc.

Yes. I'm serious.

Your lurm "highlight reel" shows you performing worse than a guy playing with his foot for **** and giggles.

Given, Juju is probably better than most players and demonstrated what it takes to get that score with LRMs these days.

Really easy targets. Also notable is that was 700 damage on two assaults, and he didn't get two kills, he got -one-.

And that was securing it after his team had savaged the front of it and actually did most of the meaningful damage. The minute he was actually targeted by someone, he promptly ate 48 ATMs and exploded.

And yes, that's still better than the OP.

[PocketYoda]

I really don't get the Lurmer fad.. They are pointless and rot your brains..

[JRcam4643]

Wil McCullough, on 13 March 2018 - 03:07 AM, said:

There's a video that juju took of himself playing lurms while aiming using hia foot. 700 damage, 2 kills on mining iirc.

Yes. I'm serious.

Your lurm "highlight reel" shows you performing worse than a guy playing with his foot for **** and giggles.

Which is a problem and part of the reason why lurms are a terrible weapon. They have such a low skill floor that juju could pull that off, but also have such a low skill ceiling that they're near useless against average or better players. That's why its a feast or famine weapon. Its performance relies on how bad your opponents are, not how good you are. Meet a bunch of potatoes? You'll mash em even using your foot to play. Meet the average t2 and above pilots and you'll end up with 200 damage at the end of the match, out of which only 50 went to where you needed it to be.

There's a reason why most lurm fans have a negative wlr. It's because even with mm gravitating players to a 50-50 wlr, they are a net detriment to their team. Because their fanboying of lurms is what is holding their team back when they insist on dropping in lurmboats. This is coming from a guy whose unit took out juju's team in group queue with a 90% lurmboat team. I just have no illusions about how bad the weapon is.

If you're serious about playing lurms effectively, you have to use it like a rac. Midrange, stay with the team, direct-fire facetime. That's the only way to get your shots to land.

If you think 700 damage is bad you have no idea what happens in quick play. And the comment about using it like rac makes me think you've never used LRMs enough to learn how to use them so you just repeat the memes you hear about them.

[Brain Cancer]

What makes it bad is where that damage came from. Maximum spread Clan LRMs on assault targets that soaked up about a zillion missiles each. In terms of damage padding? Supergood. In terms of effective damage? No. That's why in the end the enemy ATM boat doesn't flinch, calmly TAG-locks and executes him in one salvo while Juju is chainfiring his missiles.

[Wil McCullough]

JRcam4643, on 13 March 2018 - 07:42 AM, said:

If you think 700 damage is bad you have no idea what happens in quick play. And the comment about using it like rac makes me think you've never used LRMs enough to learn how to use them so you just repeat the memes you hear about them.

700 damage is good. very good, in fact. which is exactly my point about lurms being a potato masher. come up against bad pilots and you do better than you should. come up against better pilots and you get your **** pushed in.

i've used lurms. i've seen lurms being used, and i've seen good pilots use them and bad pilots use them. bad pilots do what you recommend doing, which is to hide at the back in cover and wait for allied locks. good pilots take their lurmboats to the front to get their own locks and share armor.

that's how you get a positive wlr, a positive kdr and be a better pilot.

if you're in a lurmboat playing it the way you play and recommend, the only thing you'll do is let your team win harder when they're already winning, and make them lose harder when they're already losing.

in other words, you're useless. you're useless in that your team doesn't need you. it's like when you and your mates as kids got into a fight with a bunch of other clowns and the only thing one of your friends does is kick already-downed guys on the other side. useless. ain't contributing ****.

that's your lurmboat and your playstyle.

and that's in a best case scenario.

more realistically, because you're a human and humans make mistakes, you're a detriment to the team. you can get gnawed on by lights at the back and your team has to come help you. this means pulling mechs off the front and making those that stay easier targets to get focus fired, while being able to dish out less damage.

stats don't lie, man.

with 16000 games and a sub 1.0 wlr and kdr, you gotta realize whatever you're doing and recommending isn't working. no shame in taking in some advice from players who perform better than yourself and are trying to tell you why.

Brain Cancer, on 13 March 2018 - 08:02 AM, said:

What makes it bad is where that damage came from. Maximum spread Clan LRMs on assault targets that soaked up about a zillion missiles each. In terms of damage padding? Supergood. In terms of effective damage? No. That's why in the end the enemy ATM boat doesn't flinch, calmly TAG-locks and executes him in one salvo while Juju is chainfiring his missiles.

yet still, most qp lurmers and forum lurm advocates do worse. way worse.

[Water Bear]

This thread isn't proof a darn thing - it's proof that OP has an occasional good game (I assume anyways, I didn't bother to watch the video).

This is what we call "anecdotal evidence." It is right next door to "not evidence," and is certainly not sufficient to justify the claim made in the title of this thread. Even remotely.

FWIW I can post score screens of me taking 6 kills and 1k+ damage in all sorts of garbage 'mechs, and then posting about how great those garbage 'mechs are. I don't do that because I'm not stupid.

[Brain Cancer]

Zero kills, 693 damage. Zero kills, 398 damage. Zero kills, 252 damage. One kill, 638 damage. One kill, 752 damage.

There you go. I saved you thirty minutes of watching a bad missile boat.

[Damnedtroll]

Well with the arrival of mrm...

1) my lrm backup weapon for a couple of assault brawlers just became mrm,
2) my srm of my brawler became mrm...

They all look the same now...

Edited by Damnedtroll, 13 March 2018 - 09:39 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Kiiyor, on 03 December 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

AND IN THE BLUE CORNER

I assume you have something like this Vulture LRM boat

That's the problem though. That an exploit LRM boat can fire LRMs better than a lore LRM configuration. That your 6xLRM15 suffers no aiming or accuracy problems from firing so many missiles. That it is just as good as a mech with 2xLRM15 times 3. And of course that PGI has balanced LRMs for mechs like your 6xLRM15 and not the Mad Dog Prime. Shameful.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

That's the problem though. That an exploit LRM boat can fire LRMs better than a lore LRM configuration. That your 6xLRM15 suffers no aiming or accuracy problems from firing so many missiles. That it is just as good as a mech with 2xLRM15 times 3. And of course that PGI has balanced LRMs for mechs like your 6xLRM15 and not the Mad Dog Prime. Shameful.

I'm sorry,what was that about lore and LRMs? I mean, it's not like MWO has stock builds straight from TT with six LRM 15s or someth-

http://www.sarna.net...a_Cat_(OmniMech) Alt. Config. B Alternate Configuration B deviates from the formula of the Primary and Alternate Configurations greatly, as it is a missile boat rather than a sniper, being equipped with six LRM-15s. A pair of ER Medium Lasers provide short-range backup.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 13 March 2018 - 01:18 PM.

[Grus]

Waiting for the "Buff/nerf LRM" post due to this thread...

[Kubernetes]

C'mon guys, be honest: You all *love* LRMs


...on the red team.

[Brain Cancer]

There's two LRM threads already on page 1.

Almost might be as if something's fundamentally wrong with em.

[Trenchbird]

Brain Cancer, on 13 March 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

Nova Cat LRMboat

It's sad how the Nova Cat 6x15 is actually my second favorite lorebuild of the Nova Cat, but it's my least favorite variant in MWO.

[Grus]

Good lord, where is Carl Vickers?! i miss his bashing's on threads like this...

[PocketYoda]

If they removed Lrms completely i wouldn't even notice, other than the enemies would get tougher.

[Lightfoot]

Brain Cancer, on 13 March 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

I'm sorry,what was that about lore and LRMs? I mean, it's not like MWO has stock builds straight from TT with six LRM 15s or someth-

http://www.sarna.net...a_Cat_(OmniMech) Alt. Config. B Alternate Configuration B deviates from the formula of the Primary and Alternate Configurations greatly, as it is a missile boat rather than a sniper, being equipped with six LRM-15s. A pair of ER Medium Lasers provide short-range backup.

It's mostly that in MWO you now need 5-6 LRM15 or you are wasting your time. That MWO bowed to the LRM-whiners rather than deliver a MechWarrior game that is on par with previous versions where 2xLRM15 were functional instead of useless. That's the Lore I am talking about. MWO players whined and whined that they shouldn't have to hide from LRMs when the purpose of LRMs is to control open spaces on the map. Well you can still do that, but now you can only do so with 5-6 Clan LRM15 (less with Inner Sphere versions). Anything else has no effect, the brawlers just run across any open space with near total impunity. MWO's LRMs are no more than place holders.

[Trenchbird]

Lightfoot, on 13 March 2018 - 08:01 PM, said:

Anything else has no effect, the brawlers just run across any open space with near total impunity. MWO's LRMs are no more than place holders.

And I love it this way.

TO KNOW THE LRMTURRET IS TO HATE THE LRMTURRET.

Edited by Catten Hart, 13 March 2018 - 08:04 PM.

[Erronius]

This game largely represents how I feel about lurms. I...like them a lot. I really do. They're a guilty pleasure of sorts. Some days I just log on and I'm like "Sorry folks in QP, you're gonna be stuck with me lurming today, I hope you're used to losing". As if I'm admitting to myself that I'm feeling somewhat lazy and just want to lock on and FIRE ZE MISSILES. But I know that they're far less effective than their damage would lead someone to believe. And while on one hand I was thrilled that I managed to pull 1.2K damage in a Hunchback on HPG of all maps, a lot of that depended on having someone doing an awesome job Narcing ( o7 DarwinianReject, he did an awesome job, best player on my team that match, I'd wager) and I still managed to get zero kills. And while the two of us were tag-teaming stragglers as they Nascared, they just marched through the other 10 people on our team one by one until I was the last man standing, fighting an Atlas and Spider with just small lasers left (and even if I had somehow managed to kill both of them...which wasn't gonna happen...there was still a Supanova and Giant Enemy Crab left).

I dunno if I could have turned the match around in a different 50 tonner, with pinpoint weaponry. I'm not gonna lie...I'm T1...but I'm not a T1 level player, if you know what I'm saying. I am not a TTB or Baradul or TheB33f or ColonelOneill or Jujushinobi or any of hundreds of players that could/would wipe the floor with me, easily. Lurms just help me bridge that gap to some extent. But even with all the damage I did, I honestly don't think it made a difference. I probably could have just stayed in the spawn and ran in circles, for all of the difference I made. I feel like the biggest variable in QP is MM, and good luck with that.

I've had so many, many games in lurm mechs where I've gone 300-400 damage and no kills that I wouldn't dream of posting this game as 'proof' that LRMs are effective, even if I had filmed the match. IMHO, a large part of "LRM Effectiveness" is predicated on the enemy either getting caught in the open, or freaking out and hiding in cover...and that's probably only in T5-T4, and maybe some T3. I don't think most T1 players/teams gives a toss about lurms and all your rainbow does is give them a vector to push towards. Anymore I feel like my lurms are more effective used to blind people in the path of my teammates push (if they actually push!), and that I might do better either running a splat build (no-skill YOLO gameplay, but more effective than LURMS I guess?), laservom or ballistics...


P.S. Pls PM me Ilya builds, I'm still not sure if my current 2xUAC10 build is the best use of that chassis.

[Lightfoot]

Catten Hart, on 13 March 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

And I love it this way.

TO KNOW THE LRMTURRET IS TO HATE THE LRMTURRET.

I know. But LRMs need to be good enough to upset the missile-haters. When you have the missile-haters liking LRMs you know you have created a place-holder rather than LRMs.