64 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Hazeclaw, on 17 December 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:

*facepalm*

never mind, I don't know what I was thinking posting here

Ok then, find 12 other people that can hit legs or follow your orders and group/drop with them.

When you find those 12 others, one extra for backup, you form a Unit so all of you are in the same place. Easier is join a Unit that has people that can shoot legs and follow orders.

Do that, and your problems with Incursion/CW are vastly diminished.

[Leggin Ho]

Hobbles v, on 09 December 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

Triple the base HP.

Or require at least one (or however many) kills to all the base cap.

[Appogee]

Last night I came to the point of view that it needs to be removed.

Both teams are scared the enemy will do it... So both teams base rush.

But spending 20 minutes waiting for a 3 minute match where there's no battle is just not good for anyone.

[TWIAFU]

Appogee, on 17 December 2017 - 12:30 PM, said:

Last night I came to the point of view that it needs to be removed.

Both teams are scared the enemy will do it... So both teams base rush.

But spending 20 minutes waiting for a 3 minute match where there's no battle is just not good for anyone.

If we are going to be honest, when does base rushing happen? More often then not, near end of phase either to take or prevent a planet to be taken.

Your final point, I do agree with, it's not good. Thing is, it is not exclusive to Incursion. A lot of modes can be wrapped up within 5-7 minutes.

[K O Z A K]

TWIAFU, on 17 December 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

Ok then, find 12 other people that can hit legs or follow your orders and group/drop with them.

When you find those 12 others, one extra for backup, you form a Unit so all of you are in the same place. Easier is join a Unit that has people that can shoot legs and follow orders.

Do that, and your problems with Incursion/CW are vastly diminished.

Oh stop it already. We get it, lesser skilled units/pilots need a game mode they can actually win and if shooting some buildings with an assassin/cheetalynx wave is it, I guess PGI will keep it to retain those players

[UnKnownPlayer]

Hazeclaw, on 17 December 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

Oh stop it already. We get it, lesser skilled units/pilots need a game mode they can actually win and if shooting some buildings with an assassin/cheetalynx wave is it, I guess PGI will keep it to retain those players

lol

or some people just prefer more depth in their game play with more tactics than "pop tart and poke"

It's like the different between "The Lord of the Rings" and "Noddy visits the elves"

[TWIAFU]

Hazeclaw, on 17 December 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

Oh stop it already. We get it, lesser skilled units/pilots need a game mode they can actually win and if shooting some buildings with an assassin/cheetalynx wave is it, I guess PGI will keep it to retain those players

They do have that mode, QP.

In case you missed or skipped the warning, CW is for a more 'skilled and experienced pilot'.

Gave you the best advice I could to improve your personal experiences with CW based on the info you put forth.

Best way to play and YES, enjoy CW, is to take part in it primary design goal, Group/Unit play.

I cannot help it if you choose not to improve your own experiences. Only you can find better pilots to play with. Only you can find a group or Unit that suits your playstyle.

Only you can choose to take the steps to make the game better for yourself, or not. Your choice.

Good luck.

[November Juliet]

Ditch incursion mode. Its garbage in FW.

[K O Z A K]

TWIAFU, on 18 December 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

In case you missed or skipped the warning, CW is for a more 'skilled and experienced pilot'.

boy did that turn out to be false advertising

thank you for trying to help, but I didn't ask for it, I was merely pointing out that this particular game mode (Incursion in CW) requires no skill/tactics and is not interesting for upper tier players because all you have to do is just run past enemy in fast mechs and shoot buildings, and there's little to be done to stop that in most matches. Eventually enough ppl will get sick of this that everyone will start doing it and you'll just have 2 groups of lights run past each other to see who can kill the others base first, or alternatively ppl will quit out of frustration

The pool of good pilots in CW is minuscule, and is mostly concentrated in about half a dozen units that mostly seem to have trouble fielding more than a 4-6man. Most upper division players avoid CW like the plague, because the avg level of teammates and enemies is so low it actually makes you a worse pilot by picking up bad habits, and "teams" that choose not to fight but rather just shoot buildings doesn't help. And it's not really 100% your fault, it's a flaw in this particular gamemode design that allows for what is essentially an exploit

[TWIAFU]

Hazeclaw, on 18 December 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

boy did that turn out to be false advertising

thank you for trying to help, but I didn't ask for it, I was merely pointing out that this particular game mode (Incursion in CW) requires no skill/tactics and is not interesting for upper tier players because all you have to do is just run past enemy in fast mechs and shoot buildings, and there's little to be done to stop that in most matches. Eventually enough ppl will get sick of this that everyone will start doing it and you'll just have 2 groups of lights run past each other to see who can kill the others base first, or alternatively ppl will quit out of frustration

The pool of good pilots in CW is minuscule, and is mostly concentrated in about half a dozen units that mostly seem to have trouble fielding more than a 4-6man. Most upper division players avoid CW like the plague, because the avg level of teammates and enemies is so low it actually makes you a worse pilot by picking up bad habits, and "teams" that choose not to fight but rather just shoot buildings doesn't help. And it's not really 100% your fault, it's a flaw in this particular gamemode design that allows for what is essentially an exploit

Not false advertising in the least.

Will have to back up that claim with fact.

How do you know it is not interesting to upper tier players? By your post I have replied to you are not part of that tier, no offence. Any idea what end of phase can do to making games end faster and for what purpose? Tell me.

How do you know the pool of good pilots in CW is miniscule? Basing that off what you see as a solo pilot playing with other solo pilots? Cause evidence supports that, based off what you experience.

What half dozen units that mostly have trouble fielding more the 6? How do you gain that info? Share it.

Let's see the facts you have to back all that up.

CW is what you make of it, Incursion or not. You've made it into a bad experience by not playing with people that cannot shoot legs or follow orders.

Just imagine how much fun it would be if you played with 11 others that could shoot legs, follow orders, and played as a team instead of PUGS. A whole team that played well together imagine how fun that can be.

Like the sound of that?

If so, up to you to go find it because nobody will do it for you. If not, I am very happy solo QP is available for you to enjoy.

[Kubernetes]

TWIAFU, on 18 December 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

How do you know it is not interesting to upper tier players?

A few of us have made our opinions known in this thread. I don’t know any good FP players who enjoy incursion.

Quote

How do you know the pool of good pilots in CW is miniscule?

It’s true regardless.

Its a crap mode that forces you into a crap choice: base rush or lose.

Appoggee noted this above, as have I: the symmetry of the mode makes it stupid.

A team has three choices at the start: all attack, all defend, or split. If you choose to defend you’re not advancing your own win conditions—You’ve surrendered the initiative to the enemy and are completely at his mercy. If you split you’re just going to die piecemeal unless the enemy has, by some coincidence, adopted the same split strat. That only leaves a full 12- man attack, which inevitably turns into an objective rush because of the fear the enemy will do it first. That’s it, that’s the whole damn mode in a nutshell. There’s no strategy involved because any strat other than base rush risks the enemy doing it first.

[TWIAFU]

Kubernetes, on 18 December 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

A few of us have made our opinions known in this thread. I don’t know any good FP players who enjoy incursion.



It’s true regardless.

Its a crap mode that forces you into a crap choice: base rush or lose.

Appoggee noted this above, as have I: the symmetry of the mode makes it stupid.

A team has three choices at the start: all attack, all defend, or split. If you choose to defend you’re not advancing your own win conditions—You’ve surrendered the initiative to the enemy and are completely at his mercy. If you split you’re just going to die piecemeal unless the enemy has, by some coincidence, adopted the same split strat. That only leaves a full 12- man attack, which inevitably turns into an objective rush because of the fear the enemy will do it first. That’s it, that’s the whole damn mode in a nutshell. There’s no strategy involved because any strat other than base rush risks the enemy doing it first.

Wow, if you can only find a choice of rush or loose, can see why you hate to mode.

You only play CW Incursion at end of phase or something? Only time I ever see it or have preformed it - to take or prevent a planet from being taken.

I have been base rushed by two Clan Unit teams of 10-12 and preformed a rush twice in the last phase.

First rush they did was well done and coordinated - be line for the base. They did good. They did it to try to get a win to slow down planet taking. So we had to do the same thing and it came right down the the wire! Only a few shots separated win and loss.

Second was pretty much the same, rush to end and get a win at end of phase.

Only times I ever see such a rush on Incursion, near end of phase and depending on how close to planet capture it is.

You playing solo? What about fast mover scouts? Use them to locate positions? Anyone in your drops call out where the enemy is in TS/VOIP?

Not getting power for Radar? You sitting behind your base or in it whole match? Not using harassers to force movement?


Maybe if you stopped thinking in binary you could possible see more then 1 or 0.

I am in favor of making a team kill X mechs as a victory condition in Incursion.

Make ACT cover defense on your base as well as attack enemies.

My fav strat has nothing to do with a full on rush; it is damage base and secure victory then play with my food. That way I get a win and you get your fight.

Win/win.

[Kubernetes]

TWIAFU, on 19 December 2017 - 06:17 AM, said:

Wow, if you can only find a choice of rush or loose, can see why you hate to mode.

Did you even read my post? Any other path risks automatic loss if the other side rushes.

Quote

Maybe if you stopped thinking in binary you could possible see more then 1 or 0.

Yes, I'm a silly noob who can only see in binary.

Oh wait, no I'm not.

Read my post. Your notion of "fast mover scouts" or radar doing anything to stop a dedicated rush just makes me face-palm.

I'm talking about simple game theory. You want to control the map? Lose to a rush. Defend the base? Lose to a rush (even if you beat off the first wave, you've lost the initiative and are stuck defending). Send out scouts and harassers? Lose to a rush.

The mode is trash because any team is capable of winning via base rush. The only logical move is to base rush before the enemy. Any other strategy puts you at their mercy. The only way to get a good shooting match is if both teams agree to ignore the objectives--which reinforces that the mode is trash.

Edited by Kubernetes, 19 December 2017 - 11:32 AM.

[K O Z A K]

Kubernetes, on 19 December 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

Did you even read my post? Any other path risks automatic loss if the other side rushes.


Yes, I'm a silly noob who can only see in binary.

Oh wait, no I'm not.

Read my post. Your notion of "fast mover scouts" or radar doing anything to stop a dedicated rush just makes me face-palm.

I'm talking about simple game theory. You want to control the map? Lose to a rush. Defend the base? Lose to a rush (even if you beat off the first wave, you've lost the initiative and are stuck defending). Send out scouts and harassers? Lose to a rush.

The mode is trash because any team is capable of winning via base rush. The only logical move is to base rush before the enemy. Any other strategy puts you at their mercy. The only way to get a good shooting match is if both teams agree to ignore the objectives--which reinforces that the mode is trash.

Dude, they dont care about logic. Dont waste your time. These sub 1 kdr champions of tactics will continue to tell everyone to just learn to play because its the only game mode that allows these weaker teams to win at least something consistently. In fights they lose to even pugs with 2-4mans of proper pilots. Some people just dont want to learn better builds, aim, movement, team synergy and actual tactics. You can explain to them till you're blue in the face that this mode is broken and they will continue to deny and divert the conversation because they love abusing it and are scared of fighting when they can remove the risk by "dunking it"

[TWIAFU]

Kubernetes, on 19 December 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

Yes, I'm a silly noob who can only see in binary.


I'm talking about simple game theory. You want to control the map? Lose to a rush. Defend the base? Lose to a rush (even if you beat off the first wave, you've lost the initiative and are stuck defending). Send out scouts and harassers? Lose to a rush.

Rush or loose.

1 or 0

Funny that.

Just did another Incursion where there was no rush and we won.

What are you doing that is so different? By chance are you playing solo?

[Kubernetes]

TWIAFU, on 19 December 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

Rush or loose.

1 or 0

Funny that.

Just did another Incursion where there was no rush and we won.

What are you doing that is so different? By chance are you playing solo?

I haven’t played much at all recently, but look me up on the leaderboards. I’m no theory-warrior.

But why is this so difficult to understand? The fact that you fight through incursion matches doesn’t change the fact that either team can end the match at will by rushing. A team can be down 12-36 and decide “Eff it, let’s just dunk their base.” The only way this doesn’t happen is if both teams implicitly or explicitly agree not to rush the objectives. Understand? You got through games because the teams decided not to do it. But if both teams decide not to attack the objective, why even have this trash mode?

[ApexSun]

Meh. I have not even been playing that long and I have seen plenty of instances where my unit does NOT lose to a rush on incursion. It occasionally happens, but more often then not we are able to farm the other team's rush with our own fast movers and then set up a no fly zone around their dropship areas. I am sure that most if not all of the other organized teams fare just as well.

[Davegt27]

I just had one of my most fun FP drops doing incursion

what exactly is the problem?

[UnKnownPlayer]

The mode is not trash, it is open to tactical use if you only look for it, if you are interested in a fight then try other things e.g.

Send 2 or 3 guys to shoot the base a bit and turn the enemy around in order to defend it, then hit the rear with your heavies, and crush them.

Draw 8 guys way from your base and leave it looking open, wait for their rush then harass and move the heavies back in.

Draw 4 guys away, defend close and use the 4 to perma dead people coming in from drops.

Looking at the game as "straight up fight" or "base rush" is only scratching the surface, the game mode is poorly received because people are not thinking deeply about the use of the game assets e.g. base warnings or the friendly base as being a carrot to dangle in front of rushers.

Also Haze, my stats are better than yours, you champion of tactics.

[K O Z A K]

UnKnownPlayer, on 20 December 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

Also Haze, my stats are better than yours, you champion of tactics.

Someone never learned to use leaderboard tools

W/e guys it's fine, we can all enjoy this tactical building destruction simulator