179 replies to this topic

[JigglyMoobs]

Since the rescale the size of the commando has become very small. This leads to a problem where if a commando is hugging an assault mech, several types of assault mech, eg annihilators, Cyclops, are actually unable to see the commando from the cockpit or shoot it from torso mounted weapons.

Recently, this has lead some people to adopt extremely cheesy leg humping tactics where a commando simply glues itself to the leg of an assault and shoots the assault with srms. This has been made easier with the introduction of stealth armor. A commando can simply arm just enough missile ammo to leg one or two assaults (while devoting all other weight to srms, engines and stealth armor) and suicide attack the slowest mechs on the team.

Even when the slowest assault practices good tactics to move with the team, teammates on the solo queue usually are not aware enough or can aim sufficiently well to help the assault in time.

While each mech has its advantages and disadvantages, and there are blind spots for many mechs, usually those blind spots are highly terrain dependent. There should not be a common situation where a mech can have a large and highly exploitable frontal blind spot versus another mech on level ground, which leads to overly cheesy tactics.

While one could carry more arm weapons, it's often impractical to carry enough firepower, and it still does not solve the visibility problem.

Suggestion: do one of the following:

A: Scale up the commando to be 20% larger, or until whatever size it becomes visible and shootable by all assault mechs at point blank range.

B: increase torso pitch on affected assaults so that they can see and shoot down at commandos effectively at point blank range.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 26 November 2017 - 01:44 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Just allow mechs to kick.


Punt them into your firing arc.

[JigglyMoobs]

Revis Volek, on 26 November 2017 - 01:42 PM, said:

Just allow mechs to kick.


Punt them into your firing arc.

Dude, that would be AWESOME!

[Wolfways]

Don't expect anything from pgi on this. In their "MW" lights are supposed to destroy assaults.
The only thing you'll get from players is L2P or some semi-helpful advice. With that said...

Pop a UAV, shout for help from your team, and hope for the best.

[Davegt27]

I call it the PGI ninja mentality

people complain that lights are weak and are unbalanced

but what they really mean is they want there light mechs to have the ability to take out any mech

how many times have we seen over the years some light go right after an assault

someone posted last week a link to patch notes from 2014 and to my shock your actually rewarded for shooting
mechs in the back

that is clear ninja mentality

I don't know what the solution is but I have to say
the most fun I have had in this game was light on light combat

not sneaking around killing AFKs or shooting other mechs in the back

[JigglyMoobs]

Wolfways, on 26 November 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Don't expect anything from pgi on this. In their "MW" lights are supposed to destroy assaults.
The only thing you'll get from players is L2P or some semi-helpful advice. With that said...

Pop a UAV, shout for help from your team, and hope for the best.

I have done penty of assault hunting in lights but always at some risk to my own mech. In solo queue team really isn't aware enough to help. I actually find myself having to remind the assaults that I can help them if they give grid square.

In general, I think the light vs assault combat balance in mwo is fair except for this one specific case.

There should not be a situation where on level ground, one mech can stand almost stationary directly in front of another mech and not get shot.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 26 November 2017 - 02:04 PM.

[Nightbird]

Congratulations, you've died to the worst weight class in MWO

[Wintersdark]

In all my years of MWO, I have never died this way. Never.

Mind you... I always bring arm weapons, and rail at the idiocy of arm lock, for specifically these reasons.

With that said, I've been away a bit, and haven't piloted some of the newest assaults (cyclops+), so it's possible things are worse than I'm aware of.

[JigglyMoobs]

Wintersdark, on 26 November 2017 - 02:29 PM, said:

In all my years of MWO, I have never died this way. Never.

Mind you... I always bring arm weapons, and rail at the idiocy of arm lock, for specifically these reasons.

With that said, I've been away a bit, and haven't piloted some of the newest assaults (cyclops+), so it's possible things are worse than I'm aware of.

It's a new thing.

The problem only occurs in some assault mechs with the rescaled commando. The problem is that you have the combination of an upright mech, high cockpit and restricted pitch angle with the smaller scaled mech that is only leg height.

It's also easier now because you can get stealth armor that teammates. on solo queue ignore.

So these factors have added up to an exploitable situation.

There's nothing wrong with a light mech being able to backstabbing an assault. The problem is a blind zone that makes it impossible for the assault to shoot back even when directly facing the light.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 26 November 2017 - 02:37 PM.

[VitiateDiabolus]

The B33f killing Kodiaks in a stealth Commando on Polar Highlands.

First Kodiak at around 1 min. I guess this isn't technically leg humping, but anyone who hasn't been murdered as a low agility assault by a light has either not run into any good light pilots or only plays with a team. In something heavy and sluggish like a Kodiak the light pilot HAS to make a mistake to even get hit. That, or your team comes to your rescue.

[Seranov]

The solution to this is "Assaults need to be protected from Lights by their team." As this is a team-based game, you will find the vast majority of problems can be solved by working as a team. In solo queue, you just have to hope your team has any intention of doing that. If they don't, then the game won't last terribly long anyway.

[Khobai]

its not commandos that are scaled too small

its assault mechs that are scaled too big

an atlas should only be 4 times bigger than a commando by volume

[JigglyMoobs]

VitiateDiabolus, on 26 November 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

The B33f killing Kodiaks in a stealth Commando on Polar Highlands.

First Kodiak at around 1 min. I guess this isn't technically leg humping, but anyone who hasn't been murdered as a low agility assault by a light has either not run into any good light pilots or only plays with a team. In something heavy and sluggish like a Kodiak the light pilot HAS to make a mistake to even get hit. That, or your team comes to your rescue.

Well, in this case, once you are close enough, it's actually not possible for a tall assault to hit you. That's where I think it has gone overboard.

Seranov, on 26 November 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

The solution to this is "Assaults need to be protected from Lights by their team." As this is a team-based game, you will find the vast majority of problems can be solved by working as a team. In solo queue, you just have to hope your team has any intention of doing that. If they don't, then the game won't last terribly long anyway.

That's nice in theory but doesn't work in practice with a variety of skill levels playing on random teams. There needs to be a balance, and this is now out of balance.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 26 November 2017 - 03:15 PM.

[Seranov]

No, this is the balance. If you are on a team that pays attention and cares to help you, a Light will get wrecked quickly and without doing terribly much. If you are on a team that doesn't, you lose a leg or die.

If your argument is that Lights should never be able to defeat Assaults (which, for the record, is one of the things they are supposed to be good at) then good luck with that. PGI already desynced engines so that heavier mechs didn't have as much mobility and agility as they did previously, it's highly unlikely they will go back to the way it was just to soothe your frustrations.

Furthermore, shoot the ******* before he gets to your legs. I've one-shot a bunch of Commandos in my Assault mechs, because they may as well be made of paper mache. If he manages to get to your legs with his payload intact, he deserves to be able to bite your ankles.

[Chados]

Locust PBs have got me this way but only when they have help and I don’t.

I had an extra 900 MC laying about from the last event and invested in a Troll-mando TDK for myself, even. These tinies don’t need nerfed. If you can hit them they’re one shot kills even with a 35 point alpha.

[Trenchbird]

Nightbird, on 26 November 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

Congratulations, you've died *in* the worst weight class in MWO

Fixed it for you. Most assaults are PoS, but the lights at least have more 'viable' choices.

[Tarogato]

Combining this chart with this chart...






At least it's consistent...

Edited by Tarogato, 26 November 2017 - 03:32 PM.

[Nightbird]

Catten Hart, on 26 November 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

Fixed it for you. Most assaults are PoS, but the lights at least have more 'viable' choices.

Nope, assault best class in MWO which means they have more viable choices.

[Trenchbird]

Nightbird, on 26 November 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

*Yep*, assault *worst* class in MWO which means they have *less* viable choices.

Funny, I didn't know I was in Bizarro world. Had to fix that for you again.

Especially because heavies and mediums both have more active players, and most mechs that are considered to be 'the best' are in those two weight classes, while people constantly bemoan the lacking survability and mobility of assaults.

(For the sake of fairness, people also complain about light survivability. And there are crappy light chassis. But there are a lot more viable lights, again.)

And before you say 'But assaults always have more players!', this is because there's a placebo effect in place for assaults. They look like they have a ton of armor and weapons on paper, but the inherent mechanics of MWO make it so that the mobility of assaults tend to make them crappier in general. This in turn makes lesser skilled players in lower tiers-the majority of the playerbase-gravitate towards the 'Assaults will make me live longer!' mindset.

Edited by Catten Hart, 26 November 2017 - 03:48 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Seranov, on 26 November 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

No, this is the balance. If you are on a team that pays attention and cares to help you, a Light will get wrecked quickly and without doing terribly much. If you are on a team that doesn't, you lose a leg or die.

If your argument is that Lights should never be able to defeat Assaults (which, for the record, is one of the things they are supposed to be good at) then good luck with that. PGI already desynced engines so that heavier mechs didn't have as much mobility and agility as they did previously, it's highly unlikely they will go back to the way it was just to soothe your frustrations.

Furthermore, shoot the ******* before he gets to your legs. I've one-shot a bunch of Commandos in my Assault mechs, because they may as well be made of paper mache. If he manages to get to your legs with his payload intact, he deserves to be able to bite your ankles.

First of all, look up my stats. I'm very good at killing mechs of all sorts in both assaults and lights, mediums and heavies., and I'm good at hunting down assaults in lights or defending against lights in assaults. Even against the best light/assault pilots around.

I have done this since open beta.

In either case I have to work at it, which is not a problem.

In this case the problem is there's a specific situation where one mech cannot fight back against another, which is not right.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 26 November 2017 - 03:51 PM.