64 replies to this topic

[Catalina Steiner]

Grus, on 12 December 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

sigh*

Ok atms/lrm have a place and can be a very good support weapon... but as you can see they can and will give you high damage number... but it's not effective damage.. if that was 1600 damage of PPFLD your kills would be higher and your assists would be as well. With that a Mich bigger payout and likely a win.

/rant

*sigh*

You can't see what I can do by suppressing the opponents, you don't know about my other matches (5, 6 or even 7 kills).
I know that people don't like LRM's and as for me, I stopped to drive LRM mechs for now because it's not really effective right now... but talking about ATM's in the same way as LRM's... wow. Words fail me.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

ATMs are not meant to only be used at 120m-270m. As long as it does 3 damage at that range, theres no reason to use it at any other range. So if you want ATMs to get used at other ranges you have to lower the max damage from 3->2.5 and increase the damage it does at other ranges. That decentivizes using it at 120-270 and incentivizes using it at other ranges.

1) Use range nodes. You're dealing 3 damage out to 300m, and more than 2 out to 350m, and you're perfectly OK hitting for 2 damage with them as well so your actual effective envelope is 600m. Which I use them at. With gusto.
2) If they don't pack a significant enough punch, there's no reason to use them at all. The second they deal less than 2 damage, they're inferior to LRMs. If they deal less than 3, SRMs pack more punch up close.
3) I'd take no more missile health just to lose the deadzone for damage reduction as noted, because at that point I can safely close and crush the AMSer without suddenly having most of my guns useless.

[Exard3k]

I like them, got a couple of mechs I've having fun with and am effective to.

[Finring]

I find them fun and effective on a poptarting medium mech. I try and stay within their max damage range and use them more or less like SSRMs.

[Alkabides]

Been using x2 ATM 6 and X1 ATM 3 with 3 medium heavy lasers and 1 gauss rifle on an Orion IIc. It's fun and has been crushing.

Edited by Alkabides, 13 December 2017 - 02:03 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

1) Use range nodes. You're dealing 3 damage out to 300m, and more than 2 out to 350m, and you're perfectly OK hitting for 2 damage with them as well so your actual effective envelope is 600m. Which I use them at. With gusto.

range nodes dont make ATMs do damage under 120m though.

Quote

2) If they don't pack a significant enough punch, there's no reason to use them at all. The second they deal less than 2 damage, they're inferior to LRMs. If they deal less than 3, SRMs pack more punch up close.

youve missed the point completely.

the point is that ATMs should be like having both SSRMs and LRMs on a mech, for less weight and hardpoints than if you actually took both SSRMs and LRMs.

again, the purpose of ATMs is to be versatile at all ranges. not highly specialized for 120m-270m.

Quote

3) I'd take no more missile health just to lose the deadzone for damage reduction as noted, because at that point I can safely close and crush the AMSer without suddenly having most of my guns useless.

they wont lose the deadzone if they stay at 3 damage, that would be overpowered as hell.

the deadzone combined with the AMS weakness is the only thing keeping the 3 damage from being even more broken than it already is.

the only way you can feasibly get rid of the deadzone is if you lower the 3 damage.

Edited by Khobai, 13 December 2017 - 02:17 PM.

[Grus]

Catalina Steiner, on 13 December 2017 - 01:33 PM, said:

*sigh*

You can't see what I can do by suppressing the opponents, you don't know about my other matches (5, 6 or even 7 kills).
I know that people don't like LRM's and as for me, I stopped to drive LRM mechs for now because it's not really effective right now... but talking about ATM's in the same way as LRM's... wow. Words fail me.

frankly they are in the same boat... PPFLD.. you won't need to "suppress" a mech if it's dead...

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

range nodes dont make ATMs do damage under 120m though.

No,but they do expand the range between killdozering your target and zero damage. Or dealing significant damage and just pinging bits of armor off.

Quote

they wont lose the deadzone if they stay at 3 damage, that would be overpowered as hell.

the deadzone combined with the AMS weakness is the only thing keeping the 3 damage from being even more broken than it already is.

the only way you can feasibly get rid of the deadzone is if you lower the 3 damage.

If 3-damage ATMs were "broken", we'd be seeing ATM builds cover the landscape faster than you can say "laservomit meta". Then again, I'm against ALL deadzoning for weapons. IS LRMs. ATMs. PPCs. It's not even remotely in the spirit of TT, where minrange just means less likely to damage, not "no damage".

[Yosharian]

My thought on ATM is that when there is a clan Heavy that can equip 8+ energy hardpoints, with a head laser, one missile in each torso, jumpjets if possible, and a decent amount of podspace (endo + ferro), and preferably carry ECM....

...then ATMs will be absolutely brutal on it.

Bring 2xATM12, TAG head laser, ECM, and as many small/micro lasers as you can fit. Anything comes close, destroy it with your lasers. Anything further out, ATMs.

Right now there isn't any such mech, though.

[Grus]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hellfire

Might fit that build if pgi does a pass on it with other models.

[Yosharian]

Grus, on 13 December 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hellfire

Might fit that build if pgi does a pass on it with other models.

Doesn't look like it has enough podspace, and you need at least 8 energy, more is better

no ECM

no jumpjets

too slow

[Jackal Noble]

why use atms when you can have 120 MRM?!!

[Grus]

Yosharian, on 13 December 2017 - 04:12 PM, said:

Doesn't look like it has enough podspace, and you need at least 8 energy, more is better

no ECM

no jumpjets

too slow

ahh but it's a battlemech so you can change the eng size. It's got the space to put a fair amount of firepower in it.

[Brain Cancer]

JackalBeast, on 13 December 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

why use atms when you can have 120 MRM?!!

Because Clanners don't have MRMs, and they're not guided missiles, and the spread is far worse.

[Seranov]

This thread made me decide to stick two ATM-12s in a KDK-1, pair them with a Light Tag and an LB20X. It's... not good, but it's fun.

[Brain Cancer]

Seranov, on 13 December 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

This thread made me decide to stick two ATM-12s in a KDK-1, pair them with a Light Tag and an LB20X. It's... not good, but it's fun.

Stick an ERPPC in for ECM busting instead and drop down to ATM 21. It'll feel much more satisfying.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...87a426e7bb12403

[AzureRathalos]

A trick that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet:
AMS currently has a priority to aim at LRMs.

If you fire a LRM5 a moment before firing ATMs, the LRMs will make enemy AMS point the wrong way for a moment and allow the much deadlier ATMs to get in.

Have fun.

[lazorbeamz]

orion1- IIC-C

2xcuac10
atm (9+9+3)

never regret doing this mech i ve just done a thousand dmg. my record was something like 1300.

[sceii]

2atm12 and 4ersl MDD-prime.
Very good mounts and sweet cd quirks, also still good for bending with locked view.

[Tiewolf]

sceii, on 13 December 2017 - 11:53 PM, said:

2atm12 and 4ersl MDD-prime.
Very good mounts and sweet cd quirks, also still good for bending with locked view.

Mad Dogs are actually not a perfect mech for atms because they lack jump jets.

Range nodes + jump jets + min 2xatm12 = death for everything that has no ams or cover. Lights pilots will hate you because with jump jets you get em when they try to disengage.

For me the huntsman atm12 works best because you have the speed to flank safely, hold the sweet distance and use the jump jets to ignore the low trajectory. Only ams stays an issue but over all atms are just a brutal weapon system if you figured out how to use em.