178 replies to this topic

[Jay Leon Hart]

BMKA, on 12 December 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

you and some mechwarrior must understand that clanners are slightly better than I.S because lore

Until they weren't any more.

[Steve Pryde]

Balance patches are nice but u need to change things alot faster. For example Thanatos (sidetorso) armor quirks, really everybody wants them, even guys that haven't bought a Thanatos mech pack. Or get rid off structure quirks and change them all to armor quirks. Or buff the mobility of several mechs (mostly 95t or bigger assaults, light mechs in general or mechs with oversized engines which are locked --> Timber Wolf).

And pls buff close range weapons, they need the love.

[Charles Sennet]

Another buff to IS and nerf to Clans. While this may be fine (and even warranted) in solo play, it swings even further the balance in FP where IS already has 300 tons more than Clans. Where are the needed nerfs to the Assassin and the Annihilator?

Here are some fun facts on the current state of FP balance:

• IS has the fastest mech in the game (matters for Conquest and Domination)
  
• IS has the lightest mech in the game (matters for drop deck flexibility at least until the Piranha is released for CB months from now)
  
• IS has the tankiest mech (ANH) in the game (matters for forced-close range objective modes like domination and Siege)
  
• IS has the best medium mech in the game (ASN), perhaps the most OP mech right now (even PGI admitted it is 'over-performing' at MechCon). Where is that nerf?
  
• IS got better CW tech that Clans have no answer to (where is Clans 25 pinpoint damage weapon, 50 when there are 2X?)
  
• IS has more durability quirks overall AND
  
• IS has 300 extra tons in a match

Just one of these facts is a hugh problem for Clans. For example. On domination, River City, the IS can (and has) drop 10+ ANH's and march themselves to the circle and kill all Clans mechs with ease. What are Clans supposed to answer with? Don't tell me some light strat because you are missing the point. Clans simply cannot field a 100-tonner that can stand toe-to-toe with the ANH. Even if we could it would cost us a higher % of our available drop deck to do so.

It is hard not to feel PGI might be a bit fearful of implementing any IS nerfs due to the likely backlash by the IS fanboys but enough is enough in FP.

I get the overall 'Clans can take more weapon's argument but there are real advantages on the IS side that need to be addressed as well.

Edited by Charles Sennet, 12 December 2017 - 05:01 AM.

[suffocater]

I really like the patch.
Any chance Betty gets a meeting with the AA to stop mixing up left and right and forgetting about bonus armor for the next patch?

[Dee Eight]

I'd like to know why the nova cat's are a third more agile than the night gyr's, even though they only have 2 less tons of pod space, and because they don't have locked in jump jets and FF armor, they also have a lot more crit spaces available to build them out with. They certainly also have better hardpoints available for their various pods.

[Dee Eight]

Charles Sennet, on 12 December 2017 - 05:00 AM, said:

• IS has the tankiest mech (ANH) in the game (matters for forced-close range objective modes like domination and Siege)

I get the overall 'Clans can take more weapon's argument but there are real advantages on the IS side that need to be addressed as well.

They addressed that last month and scaled back the Anni's armor quirks a bit, such that the atlas is again the tankiest (those that have armor bonuses). However there's no doubting the fact that between the quirks it still has, and some of the weapon quirks, and the available hardpoints... if for example you want to run 6 LB2s... much as you can with a dire wolf...you can do that with a LOT more armor, and the same speed, as the dire, higher hard points, and also carrying about 900 rounds of ammo for them.

[MovinTarget]

Charles Sennet, on 12 December 2017 - 05:00 AM, said:

Another buff to IS and nerf to Clans. While this may be fine (and even warranted) in solo play, it swings even further the balance in FP where IS already has 300 tons more than Clans. Where are the needed nerfs to the Assassin and the Annihilator?

Here are some fun facts on the current state of FP balance:

• IS has the fastest mech in the game (matters for Conquest and Domination)
  
• IS has the lightest mech in the game (matters for drop deck flexibility at least until the Piranha is released for CB months from now)
  
• IS has the tankiest mech (ANH) in the game (matters for forced-close range objective modes like domination and Siege)
  
• IS has the best medium mech in the game (ASN), perhaps the most OP mech right now (even PGI admitted it is 'over-performing' at MechCon). Where is that nerf?
  
• IS got better CW tech that Clans have no answer to (where is Clans 25 pinpoint damage weapon, 50 when there are 2X?)
  
• IS has more durability quirks overall AND
  
• IS has 300 extra tons in a match

Just one of these facts is a hugh problem for Clans. For example. On domination, River City, the IS can (and has) drop 10+ ANH's and march themselves to the circle and kill all Clans mechs with ease. What are Clans supposed to answer with? Don't tell me some light strat because you are missing the point. Clans simply cannot field a 100-tonner that can stand toe-to-toe with the ANH. Even if we could it would cost us a higher % of our available drop deck to do so.



It is hard not to feel PGI might be a bit fearful of implementing any IS nerfs due to the likely backlash by the IS fanboys but enough is enough in FP.

I get the overall 'Clans can take more weapon's argument but there are real advantages on the IS side that need to be addressed as well.

C'mon Chuck, you know its not that cut/dry...

Sure perhaps IS really does have the top performer in those niches, however its probably just that #1 mech and then the 2-5 are mostly clan mechs that are equally effective in some other niche.

Generally clan mechs are more flexible and *typically* they have better range save for the few IS variants with the quirks to come close (but not surpass). By having better range means you can mostly match IS at closer ranges and then outrange them.

It will be impossible to have true factually evidence of one sides superiority over the other because there are so many factors to account for, not the least of which is who is piloting...

Edited by MovinTarget, 12 December 2017 - 05:48 AM.

[Lorginir]

So Hellspawn quirks are actually correct? Kinda odd set of durability distribution.

Ed Steele, on 11 December 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

The demon girl is a bit modest for a demon

she undress when you get a kill.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Dee Eight, on 12 December 2017 - 05:26 AM, said:

I'd like to know why the nova cat's are a third more agile than the night gyr's, even though they only have 2 less tons of pod space, and because they don't have locked in jump jets and FF armor, they also have a lot more crit spaces available to build them out with. They certainly also have better hardpoints available for their various pods.

If I had to guess...

The NTGs all come with 4 JJS, whereas the NCTs can take 0, 2 or 4, in exchange for not taking ST weaponry or AMS.
NTGs can put 1E or 1 AMS in the Head, NCTs get nothing.
NTGs have 1 option for a CT hardpoint of 1E, NCTs get nothing.
RT options for NTGs are 1B, 1E, 1M, 2M or nothing. RT options for NCTs are 1E, 1 AMS, 2 JJs or nothing.
LT options for NTGs are 2B, 1B, 1E or 1M. LT options for NCTs are 1E, 2 JJs or nothing.

So if you want JJs or want to boat ballistics, stick to NTGs. If you don't want JJs or want to boat energy, stick to NCTs.

[lazorbeamz]

I like c er ll nerf thanks. Please nerf all laser weapons which arent close ranged. The problem is not one single laser but laser vs ballistics imbalance.

[Genesis23]

Charles Sennet, on 12 December 2017 - 05:00 AM, said:

• IS has the fastest mech in the game (matters for Conquest and Domination)
  
• IS has the lightest mech in the game (matters for drop deck flexibility at least until the Piranha is released for CB months from now)
  
• IS has the tankiest mech (ANH) in the game (matters for forced-close range objective modes like domination and Siege)
  
• IS has the best medium mech in the game (ASN), perhaps the most OP mech right now (even PGI admitted it is 'over-performing' at MechCon). Where is that nerf?
  
• IS got better CW tech that Clans have no answer to (where is Clans 25 pinpoint damage weapon, 50 when there are 2X?)
  
• IS has more durability quirks overall AND
  
• IS has 300 extra tons in a match

wanna hear some more facts?

- IS has also the slowest mechs in the game
- Clan has clan XL (in case that was not obvious enough)
- Clan weaponry, armor and other equipment is much smaller and lighter, allowing even medium mechs to rival the Firepower of IS heavies and assaults

and the most important of them all: pretty much all competing teams in the 2017 championship used 4-8 clan mechs in their 8 Man teams, so they cant be as bad as you are trying to show. sure, IS has some good mechs in some niches, but IS has also the worst mechs in every weightclass and the only thing saving IS mechs from total redundancy are the quirks which are evidently still not sufficent.

Edited by Genesis23, 12 December 2017 - 06:19 AM.

[RolandDT]

InnerSphereNews, on 11 December 2017 - 08:44 PM, said:

• MRMs: Fixed an issue where MRM launchers of different types could desync after multiple shots.


Uziel
• All variants have received a +10% Weapon Range Quirk.
• All variants have received a light increase to Mobility.





• Osiris [all variants]: Fixed an issue where the Arms would not appear to move vertically in 1PV.


• Stalker [STK-3FB/(L)]: Fixed incorrect default thumbnail images.


• Scouting: Fixed an issue where returning to an already retrieved Intel point would still trigger the capture sound.

Thank you for all the hard work everyone has put into this (and every) patch, but especially for these changes. Even small, quality of life changes can have a larger than expected impact on player morale.

[Gasoline]

Dee Eight, on 12 December 2017 - 03:08 AM, said:

Well it is the best choice if you're going to boat ER larges among clan assaults.. the hardpoints are higher than a warhawk or whale, several variants have structure quirks, and the -1 even has a minor laser duration quirk.

Yeah, I was just pulling that up, because it's the goto ERLL boat. I don't mind the nerf too much, it's just one of those moments where I'm like: Yeah... why? The problem with clan energy weapons isn't solved by a single heat and cooldown nerf, neither to just one weapon... It's the combination and boating potential of clan energy weapons as a whole and excessive heat thresholds.

Dee Eight, on 12 December 2017 - 05:26 AM, said:

I'd like to know why the nova cat's are a third more agile than the night gyr's, even though they only have 2 less tons of pod space, and because they don't have locked in jump jets and FF armor, they also have a lot more crit spaces available to build them out with. They certainly also have better hardpoints available for their various pods.

The Night Owl got a hefty nerf to mobility back in the days before the gauss/ppc ghost heat sync, because people were afraid of the dual gauss/ppc pin point damage. Now it has the exact same mobility as the Mad Cat Mk.II at 90t. The Nova Cat has the standard 70t heavy mobility.

[Gazbeard]

IS Heavy Machine Gun
• Spread reduced to 1 (from 1.1) = 9% Buff
• Range Increased to 100 (from 80) = 25% Buff
• Max Range Increased to 200 (from 180) = 12% Buff
• Crit Multiplier increased to 7 (from 6) = 16% Buff

Clan Light Machine Gun
• Spread Increased to 0.7 (from 0.5) = 40% Nerf
• Crit Multiplier reduced to 8 (from 9) = 11% Nerf

Clan Machine Gun
• Spread Increased to 0.84 (from 0.6) = 40% Nerf
• Crit Multiplier reduced to 8 (from 9) = 11% Nerf

Clan Heavy Machine Gun
• Spread increased to 1.3 (from 1.1) = 18% Nerf
• Range Increased to 100 (from 80) = 25% Buff
• Max Range increased to 200 (from 160) = 25% Buff



NERFED BEFORE DELIVERY = NO LONGER AS DESCRIBED

[NocturnalBeast]

Lorginir, on 12 December 2017 - 05:50 AM, said:

So Hellspawn quirks are actually correct? Kinda odd set of durability distribution.


she undress when you get a kill.

Interesting, does she have a pointed tail too?

[Y E O N N E]

The Piranha is still exactly as described.

[Charles Sennet]

MovinTarget, on 12 December 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

C'mon Chuck, you know its not that cut/dry...

Sure perhaps IS really does have the top performer in those niches, however its probably just that #1 mech and then the 2-5 are mostly clan mechs that are equally effective in some other niche.

Generally clan mechs are more flexible and *typically* they have better range save for the few IS variants with the quirks to come close (but not surpass). By having better range means you can mostly match IS at closer ranges and then outrange them.

It will be impossible to have true factually evidence of one sides superiority over the other because there are so many factors to account for, not the least of which is who is piloting...

Faction Play is a niche mode sir and about 50% of matches (Siege, Domination) force close combat which heavily favors IS atm. Then other modes are long range which is debatable at best who has the advantage (esp now with cERLL nerf). I'm not saying Clans don't have some advantages but those are at mostly medium ranges which FP-objective-based-games forces teams out of. I'm just saying that, at this point, 300 extra tons on the IS side is far too great an advantage than what is truly needed. I'd advocate for a 240/250 advantage for IS. That way, taking that ANH will at least cost you a higher % of the drop deck than it currently does. FP should be balanced for teams not PUGs but that is not what we have right now. Not even close.

Gazbeard, on 12 December 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

IS Heavy Machine Gun
• Spread reduced to 1 (from 1.1) = 9% Buff
• Range Increased to 100 (from 80) = 25% Buff
• Max Range Increased to 200 (from 180) = 12% Buff
• Crit Multiplier increased to 7 (from 6) = 16% Buff

Clan Light Machine Gun
• Spread Increased to 0.7 (from 0.5) = 40% Nerf
• Crit Multiplier reduced to 8 (from 9) = 11% Nerf

Clan Machine Gun
• Spread Increased to 0.84 (from 0.6) = 40% Nerf
• Crit Multiplier reduced to 8 (from 9) = 11% Nerf

Clan Heavy Machine Gun
• Spread increased to 1.3 (from 1.1) = 18% Nerf
• Range Increased to 100 (from 80) = 25% Buff
• Max Range increased to 200 (from 160) = 25% Buff



NERFED BEFORE DELIVERY = NO LONGER AS DESCRIBED

Hard to argue with this.

Dee Eight, on 12 December 2017 - 05:32 AM, said:

They addressed that last month and scaled back the Anni's armor quirks a bit, such that the atlas is again the tankiest (those that have armor bonuses). However there's no doubting the fact that between the quirks it still has, and some of the weapon quirks, and the available hardpoints... if for example you want to run 6 LB2s... much as you can with a dire wolf...you can do that with a LOT more armor, and the same speed, as the dire, higher hard points, and also carrying about 900 rounds of ammo for them.

Right, so what is the Clan answer to this mech on the field? There is none which is a major balance problem. Even if there was it would take a much higher % of our drop decks to field it creating problems for later waves.

Edited by Charles Sennet, 12 December 2017 - 08:37 AM.

[Stridercal]

valrond, on 11 December 2017 - 11:22 PM, said:

Another stupid nerf to the clans. Now the ERLL is basically 1 damage per 1 heat. Freaking stupid. It's not like the clans have a regular LL to fall back if you want a brawl build like IS has this the very heat efficient LL (9 damage per 7 hit with 450m range is pretty good). And many builds don't have many options with limited pod space and crit space, you have to use the cERLL, the cHLL takes up too much room and the cLPL is too heavy.

Quit complaining! It should be 12 heat for 10 damage. Be thankful!

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Charles Sennet, on 12 December 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

Right, so what is the Clan answer to this mech on the field? There is none which is a major balance problem. Even if there was it would take a much higher % of our drop decks to field it creating problems for later waves.

So how about we balance things out so that clan side is not inherently better from the get go (tech), so the FP tonnage may be equal again? All that horrible current 'IS advantage' could be mitigated with just giving clans a few tons back.

EDIT:
Balance changes are a bit 'too late too little' even though they go in the rigth direction. See what happens when PGI are actually forced to see how competent players play the game? PGI actually starts noticing things.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 12 December 2017 - 09:05 AM.

[latinisator]

Genesis23, on 12 December 2017 - 06:17 AM, said:

and the most important of them all: pretty much all competing teams in the 2017 championship used 4-8 clan mechs in their 8 Man teams, so they cant be as bad as you are trying to show.

Yeah, because the bubble they're living in is the reality in MW:O.

Prof RJ Gumby, on 12 December 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

So how about we balance things out so that clan side is not inherently better from the get go (tech), so the FP tonnage may be equal again? All that horrible current 'IS advantage' could be mitigated with just giving clans a few tons back.

I'm not gonna say that CW is lopsided atm but Charles did spoke out some truths that are accumulating to an unfair amount of advantages (if players choose to play it that way, that is).
Also, I vote against an increase for the Clans tonnage but advocate a decrease for the IS.
In addition: put a drop weight limit (800t?) for the first drop so that assault barrages on both sides can be avoided.