101 replies to this topic

[LT. HARDCASE]

Found an old Youtube video in which Spiral speaks in length. Same person, with absolute certainty.

[Y E O N N E]

LT. HARDCASE, on 30 December 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

Found an old Youtube video in which Spiral speaks in length. Same person, with absolute certainty.

Welp, there we go.

[Jackal Noble]

Where is this thread going?
WTF?
The Assassin very definitely needs to be altered as it is in game. It chews up on spits out nearly every mech 20 tons on either side of it. Wolfhound maybe, but otherwise Assassin is the most powerful light/medium in the game. Best light - Wolfhound.
Best Heavy - Marauder. Best Assault - Annihilator/Deathstrike. That's odd. My heart goes out to IS pilots everywhere.
But hey, let's go ahead and change the subject rather than face the inevitable.
Another great case to give IS XLs better survivability so that IS mechs no longer can crutch on absurd front loaded survivability

[Y E O N N E]

Russ said the Assassin is going to essentially be the same as now, so we'll see.

Personally, I find the lack of brawling 'Mechs that can brave the ranged fire to close to be a problem. The ASN is one of maybe three 'Mechs that can do it, the others being the Linebacker and Bushwacker. I'd much rather see the Arctic Wolf gain some durability than see the Assassin planted six feet under by becoming overly squishy. It had only token structure when it launched and it was bad.

[Jackal Noble]

I'm with Tarogato on this one, lay off the witch hunt. It's not that far fetched to assume that someone that has a part in game balance also happens to be a player of the game.
Salt?
Nothing compared to the level of some of the most vocal forumites on here.

Edited by JackalBeast, 30 December 2017 - 04:01 PM.

[The Lighthouse]

Tarogato, on 30 December 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

Who cares who he is. His work speaks for itself. Judge him by that, not his roots. We don't need to know who he is and where's his been to collaborate with him on balance or criticize the changes he's informed.

Yes, and really no offense to him.... his works have been utter travesty, with at some point people wish Paul to be back as the balancer of this game.

That said, it is incredibly tricky to determine a person from account for this game, which really easily allows smurfs and the performance is heavily based on mech setups. Not to mention, which is proven again and again, that best players are not necessarily the best balancer for the game itself. His that particular account may be not satisfactory for some people, but his other account may tell different story.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 30 December 2017 - 04:02 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Ummm... Paul is still involved in balance

[Jackal Noble]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 December 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

Russ said the Assassin is going to essentially be the same as now, so we'll see.

Personally, I find the lack of brawling 'Mechs that can brave the ranged fire to close to be a problem. The ASN is one of maybe three 'Mechs that can do it, the others being the Linebacker and Bushwacker. I'd much rather see the Arctic Wolf gain some durability than see the Assassin planted six feet under by becoming overly squishy. It had only token structure when it launched and it was bad.

Well , maybe a tad. If Clan had a 40 tonner that could stand up against the Assassin, that would likely go a ways to ease the general outcry against it. Assassin gets minorly shunted, while ACW gets some durability. The only real issue is potentially creating another monster, as despite the sub par performance of Csrms, the ACW can boat some serious firepower. The 1 in particular.

[The Lighthouse]

JackalBeast, on 30 December 2017 - 04:02 PM, said:

Ummm... Paul is still involved in balance

Yes, as far as I understand Chris has to get stuffs approved by Paul, and it was obvious that these whole medium laser nerfs are most likely Paul's idea.

Look folks, I don't mind if a person of "0.00 KDR" meme from Reddit does balance work, as long as his/her work is good. Right now, regardless of the game skill of Chris and Paul, their game balance work is basically disaster for a long time. THAT IS the issue, not the person's skills.

[Airu]

While my sdr-5V gently weeps...

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 30 December 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

I'm with Tarogato on this one, lay off the witch hunt. It's not that far fetched to assume that someone that has a part in game balance also happens to be a player of the game.
Salt?
Nothing compared to the level of some of the most vocal forumites on here.

His performance not the point. The point is that the person charged with balancing the game is known to have displayed a lack of understanding on how the mechanics of the game play with each other during previous conversations both prior to and after gaining his position. It is probable that lack of understanding has something to do with his performance, but his performance is not itself the issue. It is merely another red flag.

JackalBeast, on 30 December 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

Well , maybe a tad. If Clan had a 40 tonner that could stand up against the Assassin, that would likely go a ways to ease the general outcry against it. Assassin gets minorly shunted, while ACW gets some durability. The only real issue is potentially creating another monster, as despite the sub par performance of Csrms, the ACW can boat some serious firepower. The 1 in particular.

The ACW is also really hot when boating that firepower. Even with massed cSRM2, to actually fire them on-cycle is pretty toasty.

I think there exists a good balance in there somewhere. Main point is that the ASN needs enough to offset isXL; the way a properly-balanced isXL build should work is that it gets full use of weapons longer, but can die on one ST where the Clan 'Mech can survive that one ST, but at the cost of losing what was initially greater firepower in the exchange. TTK should end up roughly the same for both.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 30 December 2017 - 04:48 PM.

[El Bandito]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 December 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

I think there exists a good balance in there somewhere. Main point is that the ASN needs enough to offset isXL; the way a properly-balanced isXL build should work is that it gets full use of weapons longer, but can die on one ST where the Clan 'Mech can survive that one ST, but at the cost of losing what was initially greater firepower in the exchange. TTK should end up roughly the same for both.

TTK shouldn't be equal on both. Arctic Wolf has bulkier hitboxes, CXL, and far more firepower potential. I don't think it deserves to be buffed with equal TTK as the Assassin.

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 30 December 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

TTK shouldn't be equal on both. Arctic Wolf has bulkier hitboxes, CXL, and far more firepower potential. I don't think it deserves to be buffed with equal TTK as the Assassin.

Mmmm, the concept of operations is the ACW goes in with more firepower, uses it for a bit, then gets that firepower reduced by 50-60%% by virtue of being squishier, then it dies. The ASN will have full firepower from beginning to its demise. Theoretically, it both should be expected to live for the same amount of time and their output should average out to about the same over that time.

[El Bandito]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 December 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Mmmm, the concept of operations is the ACW goes in with more firepower, uses it for a bit, then gets that firepower reduced by 50-60%% by virtue of being squishier, then it dies. The ASN will have full firepower from beginning to its demise. Theoretically, it both should be expected to live for the same amount of time and their output should average out to about the same over that time.

Or, one lives shorter but deals more damage up front, while the other lives longer but deals equal damage over time. TTK doesn't have to be the same.

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 30 December 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

Or, one lives shorter but deals more damage up front, while the other lives longer but deals equal damage over time. TTK doesn't have to be the same.

No, that's actually the same thing as what I just said. You have to account for the necessary playstyle for each to work.

[The Lighthouse]

El Bandito, on 30 December 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

Or, one lives shorter but deals more damage up front, while the other lives longer but deals equal damage over time. TTK doesn't have to be the same.

ACW just does not live LONG enough. Only thing that can do better than Assassin is first alpha strike on first encounter, then it dies pretty fast.

I am not sure whether people are realizing, but Assassin really does not have much weapon. If you think about it for a bit, Basically Mist Lynx can carry almost same firepower of Assassin (i.e Lynx hero can take 4x SRM4). Assassin is not as super crazy imba as you'd think. It's really an lightweight mech.

[Beaching Betty]

Fix the hitbox plox

[El Bandito]

JackalBeast, on 30 December 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

I'm with Tarogato on this one, lay off the witch hunt. It's not that far fetched to assume that someone that has a part in game balance also happens to be a player of the game.

Having a player of the game do balancing is completely fine decision and all, but the player in question ideally should be a very active and good pilot. The balance underling does not strike me as that sort.

The Lighthouse, on 30 December 2017 - 07:05 PM, said:

ACW just does not live LONG enough. Only thing that can do better than Assassin is first alpha strike on first encounter, then it dies pretty fast.

I am not sure whether people are realizing, but Assassin really does not have much weapon. If you think about it for a bit, Basically Mist Lynx can carry almost same firepower of Assassin (i.e Lynx hero can take 4x SRM4). Assassin is not as super crazy imba as you'd think. It's really an lightweight mech.

One is squishy and the other has low firepower. Why they are already balanced against each other then. I am gonna make my own judgement of the ACW, once I own it. It should be available for C-Bills come February.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 December 2017 - 05:14 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

El Bandito, on 31 December 2017 - 05:13 AM, said:

Having a player of the game do balancing is completely fine decision and all, but the player in question ideally should be a very active and good pilot. The balance underling does not strike me as that sort.




One is squishy and the other has low firepower. Why they are already balanced against each other then. I am gonna make my own judgement of the ACW, once I own it. It should be available for C-Bills come February.

Man you haven't even tried it. "Squishy" is the ACW's middle name lol.

[Rusharn]

I am not so sure that there is a hit box issue so much as there is a hit reg issue. Several times I have fired srms or ac's at an ASN and visually I see a hit but the paper doll indicates no damage, but I don't have the same issue with lasers. I think there is an issue with the server properly tracking the ASN's true orientation and location causing non-tracking, non-hit scan weapons to not register hits. This could explain why several people have no issue with ASN as they use lasers, ATM's, or LRMs, but people that use SRM's and AC's have trouble with them.

I notice in addition to the unusual bobbing run it has, the ASN also turns extremely fast, this could be messing with the hit prediction model, especially from clients with high pings.