250 replies to this topic

[N0MAD]

Tarogato, on 30 December 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:

What are you trying to implicate, and what is the point your trying to make by it?

Are you trying to say that there are probably fewer FP players than we think, because more players on the FP leaderboard are alts? If so...

A: what does it matter - they are accounts playing the game regularly, that is the unit of measure here. At what point is an alt account completely indistinguishable from a unique human being playing the game? If more people roll alts in FP, that's makes FP look better. But maybe it's suppose to make FP look better, because FP brings enough enjoyment for those players to justify rolling alts.


B: how many people do you honestly think roll alts? We have absolutely no idea, and no way of knowing - even a poll wouldn't get us close to the right answer. But if I were to guess, I would say probably 1% on a whim, or at least a negligibly small amount.

1%, LOL, just LOL.
Go on Mischief tell him about your Alts, geezus we know entire FP teams have alts or multiples many teams...
Just LOL.

Edited by N0MAD, 30 December 2017 - 08:46 PM.

[N0MAD]

Mystere, on 30 December 2017 - 08:33 PM, said:

FTFY.

FYI, I only drop solo.

How is a pug going into a pug Q a safe place? he is dropping into a Q with other pugs all equal more or less.
Isnt a safe place a place where someone with and advantage goes to play where others dont have that advantage? say a place where a coordinated team goes to play the un organised pugs, seems to me thats the safe place not where a pug meets another pug and play on equal terms.
WTF has common sense become that hard?

Sorry about the multiple post after each other, lots people around making it hard to concentrate.
Will leave this here as to distracted got a new years eve party starting up..
BTW, Happy new years to all, hope you and your families have a great new year.

Edited by N0MAD, 30 December 2017 - 09:08 PM.

[Mystere]

N0MAD, on 30 December 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

How is a pug going into a pug Q a safe place?

How can solo-only drops winning a planet owned by a unit without ever facing them not be a safe space?

Or are you suggesting that solos have their own separate Inner Sphere?

Edited by Mystere, 30 December 2017 - 09:18 PM.

[Shadowomega1]

Mystere, on 30 December 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

How can solo-only drops winning a planet owned by a unit without ever facing them not be a safe space?

Or are you suggesting that solos have their own separate Inner Sphere?

Winning a planet goes to the unit that put in the most effort/score on taking said planet right? So those in quick play will have little to no effect on the unit who ever name pops up on the planet. Unless somehow some random pugs unit ends up outscoring those large units dropping.

[MischiefSC]

N0MAD, on 30 December 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

1%, LOL, just LOL.
Go on Mischief tell him about your Alts, geezus we know entire FP teams have alts or multiples many teams...
Just LOL.

I have 2 alts. 1 never gets played, the other hasn't had 10 matches in FW in 10 of the last 12 months.

So, less than 1% of my playtime. I have a couple of teammates who also have alts but, again, there just isn't time to play them very often. Nobody does.

It used to be much more common in the pre- 1 Bukkit days. Even then it was only a tiny percentage. It was just for events and giggles.

Also it's tough to point out your dishonest statements when you edit them out of your posts but so long as it's gone I'm happy.

Edited by MischiefSC, 31 December 2017 - 07:32 AM.

[Tordin]

I have a feeling Solaris VII will put a final curbstomp onto CW to save it from suffereing. Its competive as all whack with alot lower wait times ( I hope) and sweet features.
MAYBE if Solaris will be a big hit and the population will increase steadily afterwards, then they might redo the whole CW mode with repair and rearm, planets that matter, more lore input and maybe start from scratch with stock mechs only that you can get from said planets or brought elsewhere for a higher price ( quirks included though, especially for IS ) I MIGHT kid myself but hey, PGI are pretty surprisive sometimes, a few times in a good way.

Edited by Tordin, 31 December 2017 - 07:52 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Tordin, on 31 December 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

I have a feeling Solaris VII will put a final curbstomp onto CW to save it from suffereing. Its competive as all whack with alot lower wait times ( I hope) and sweet features.
MAYBE if Solaris will be a big hit and the population will increase steadily afterwards, then they might redo the whole CW mode with repair and rearm, planets that matter, more lore input and maybe start from scratch with stock mechs only that you can get from said planets or brought elsewhere for a higher price ( quirks included though, especially for IS ) I MIGHT kid myself but hey, PGI are pretty surprisive sometimes, a few times in a good way.

Solaris will be an utter mess. Incredibly meta driven, very easy for a bad player or a "I dont do meta" to lose 100 matches in a row, incredibly shallow.

I do a ton of 1 v 1s. Solaris will be a mess.

[El Bandito]

Tordin, on 31 December 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

I have a feeling Solaris VII will put a final curbstomp onto CW to save it from suffereing. Its competive as all whack with alot lower wait times ( I hope) and sweet features.
MAYBE if Solaris will be a big hit and the population will increase steadily afterwards, then they might redo the whole CW mode with repair and rearm, planets that matter, more lore input and maybe start from scratch with stock mechs only that you can get from said planets or brought elsewhere for a higher price ( quirks included though, especially for IS ) I MIGHT kid myself but hey, PGI are pretty surprisive sometimes, a few times in a good way.

Solaris would become completely inaccessible for the average player soon after its launch, as he will be utterly crushed, and turned off by its meta and skill gaps. I foresee far less people playing Solaris than FP.

[Mystere]

Shadowomega1, on 30 December 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

Winning a planet goes to the unit that put in the most effort/score on taking said planet right? So those in quick play will have little to no effect on the unit who ever name pops up on the planet. Unless somehow some random pugs unit ends up outscoring those large units dropping.

But what happens if the side that owns a planet being invaded has a few groups and no solos queuing and the other side has legions upon legions of solos and no groups in the queue? Will the fate of the planet be decided purely by ghost drops?

[Mystere]

Tordin, on 31 December 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

I have a feeling Solaris VII will put a final curbstomp onto CW to save it from suffereing. Its competive as all whack with alot lower wait times ( I hope) and sweet features.
MAYBE if Solaris will be a big hit and the population will increase steadily afterwards, then they might redo the whole CW mode with repair and rearm, planets that matter, more lore input and maybe start from scratch with stock mechs only that you can get from said planets or brought elsewhere for a higher price ( quirks included though, especially for IS ) I MIGHT kid myself but hey, PGI are pretty surprisive sometimes, a few times in a good way.

I expect sharks to swim in the Solaris waters and completely slaughter the same exact solos crying about QP matchmaking and how unfair CW is. It will be a bloodbath followed by a mass exodus.

Why do I think so? I base it on experience playing MMOs in PvP servers. Initially, there would be a large number of players going "I can take it!". But after a few months if not weeks, there would be huge population migrations to the PvE servers big enough that the PvP servers were eventually closed one by one.

Edited by Mystere, 01 January 2018 - 01:25 PM.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

There are about the same amount of people playing Star Wars Battlegrounds 2 (2005) on steam as there are people playing Mechwarrior Online (just one example).

2005 game versus 2013 game.

The population does not exist for separate buckets.

Solaris is only going to make queue times for FP worse.

Edited by Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-, 31 December 2017 - 09:53 AM.

[TWIAFU]

El Bandito, on 31 December 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

Solaris would become completely inaccessible for the average player soon after its launch, as he will be utterly crushed, and turned off by its meta and skill gaps. I foresee far less people playing Solaris than FP.

So PGI has to make a new safer Solaris for the new install/casual/average player.

Separate queues on Solaris! We cannot allow for the average, casual, new install fight against anyone that is not average, casual or likewise a fresh install. It is not fair! If you do not support separating queues to stop seal clubbing in Solaris you are a Solaris Seal Clubber!

How can you people even play against some casual in a trial mech with your uber meta alpha builds?!?!?

/sarcasm



And groups cannot be allowed in 2v2 Solaris! Not fair to PUGs! We need a solo only 2v2 and group only 2v2 Solaris Queues!

End Solaris Seal Clubbing now! Save the Seals!

[dario03]

I still think it would be best if you could just jump around factions whenever you wanted as a merc. Just check IS and/or Clan and then launch into a FP match and if both are selected have a match maker pick where you would best fit. Lets you be able to play with any group without having to worry about contracts or all stacking on one side for weeks at a time. Having the groups more evenly spread across the 2 sides should help with balance without making more queues to separate the player base.

[Shadowomega1]

Mystere, on 31 December 2017 - 09:06 AM, said:

But what happens if the side that owns a planet being invaded has a few groups and no solos queuing and the other side has legions upon legions of solos and no groups in the queue? Will the fate of the planet be decided purely by ghost drops?

Then the unit with the pugs that end up scoring the most for that time period.

[TWIAFU]

Mystere, on 30 December 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

How can solo-only drops winning a planet owned by a unit without ever facing them not be a safe space?

Or are you suggesting that solos have their own separate Inner Sphere?

Solo droppers will never be able to take a Planet.

[Tincan Nightmare]

I don't understand how people can say FP would die if they separated pugs from groups, when what they should be saying is that the group queue would die but the pug one would be just fine. This already happened in QP, back when groups were allowed to drop there. Same issue, massive seal clubbing that is just common sense that a group organized and working together is going to outperform a collection of strangers thrown together randomly. Eventually (after the majority of players got pissed at getting farmed and complained, since pugs are the majority), they removed groups from QP. Well which mode in the game right now has the most life and player count?

Honestly I don't think PGI killed CW (though things like the Long Tom were very bad ideas), it was a mode that was dying for years thanks to players joining matches, looking at their opponents and seeing a premade, and knowing that they were about to be stomped. CW 1.0, 2.0 whatever, I honestly like the mode, but do not like knowing a match is going to be hopeless when I see the enemy team is a premade that is gonna stomp all over us. I only drop in FW for events, again pretty much like the majority of pugs, but I would drop far more often if I knew some matches aren't predetermined simply by the matchmaker. Yes, sometimes the impossible can happen, and a pug group can win against organized teams (actually happened once for me during this event), but it is the exception and very long odds.

And please stop using the tired old line that CW is a 'TEAM' mode. The entirety of MWO is team based, I have never played a single match in MWO since beta, that I played solo without a team. When Solaris hits, with it's 1v1 option, yes people will finally be able to play 'solo' in MWO. But every other mode in MWO is a TEAM based mode. The problem is that some players think that random assortments of players thrown up against a prepared and coordinated team is somehow 'fair' or 'fun' in CW.

Worse is the argument that there aren't enough groups for their own queue, that they need the pugs to fill in vacancies because they can't fill a full team. If groups are so low populated, why have an entire mode based on them? Does any game grow its population by catering to an extremely small niche of it's potential players?

PGI could make a separate group queue, and just let people drop in groups of 2, 4, 6, or 12. Then match up teams of different size as needed to make a full team. No pugs necessary. Maybe put a cap on the size of a group so that full 12 man premades don't dominate over the smaller teams if that starts to occur.

Honestly, this whole thread is just people venting (on both sides), PGI is evidently unconcerned with this mode anymore and just seems to have switched all their efforts over to Solaris. Nothing will change, just more random events to draw players in (for a short term), then back to low population CW and everyone playing QP.

Edited by Tincan Nightmare, 31 December 2017 - 02:52 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Tincan Nightmare, on 31 December 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

I don't understand how people can say FP would die if they separated pugs from groups, when what they should be saying is that the group queue would die but the pug one would be just fine. This already happened in QP, back when groups were allowed to drop there. Same issue, massive seal clubbing that is just common sense that a group organized and working together is going to outperform a collection of strangers thrown together randomly. Eventually (after the majority of players got pissed at getting farmed and complained, since pugs are the majority), they removed groups from QP. Well which mode in the game right now has the most life and player count?

Um, not sure what you are talking about here. Group Queue QP is alive and well. In re FP, absent events wait times for groups and solos alike can be in the 10s of minutes or longer depending on time zone. Splitting that que even further will make those times eve worse. This isn't some pie in the sky theory, it is simple math. The population just isn't there.

Tincan Nightmare, on 31 December 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

Honestly I don't think PGI killed CW (though things like the Long Tom were very bad ideas), it was a mode that was dying for years thanks to players joining matches, looking at their opponents and seeing a premade, and knowing that they were about to be stomped. CW 1.0, 2.0 whatever, I honestly like the mode, but do not like knowing a match is going to be hopeless when I see the enemy team is a premade that is gonna stomp all over us. I only drop in FW for events, again pretty much like the majority of pugs, but I would drop far more often if I knew some matches aren't predetermined simply by the matchmaker. Yes, sometimes the impossible can happen, and a pug group can win against organized teams (actually happened once for me during this event), but it is the exception and very long odds.

CW was only around for just under 2 years before Phase 3 and the stupidity that was the Long Tom, unit taxes and all the rest of that folly. PGI most certainly did "kill" CW with their insistence that the mode and underlying mechanics were "fine" while asking the community how to fix this "fine" mode in two round tables, which they then roundly misinterpreted ignored or listened to far too late.

Tincan Nightmare, on 31 December 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

And please stop using the tired old line that CW is a 'TEAM' mode. The entirety of MWO is team based, I have never played a single match in MWO since beta, that I played solo without a team. When Solaris hits, with it's 1v1 option, yes people will finally be able to play 'solo' in MWO. But every other mode in MWO is a TEAM based mode. The problem is that some players think that random assortments of players thrown up against a prepared and coordinated team is somehow 'fair' or 'fun' in CW.

Read the sign when you first play. CW is most certainly more of a team mode than the rest of the game. Maybe you don't want to listen to PGI here, fine. Tell me though, why is it that none of the team minded folks are the ones asking for a split in the queue?

Tincan Nightmare, on 31 December 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

Worse is the argument that there aren't enough groups for their own queue, that they need the pugs to fill in vacancies because they can't fill a full team. If groups are so low populated, why have an entire mode based on them? Does any game grow its population by catering to an extremely small niche of it's potential players?

What? You just described exactly how the mode works right now in your assertion that it is a bad argument. We are forced into 12 v 12, the smaller groups and solos must fit into the puzzle of those groups that are running less than 12 v 12. That is the mode right now and wait times are abysmal outside of events.

Tincan Nightmare, on 31 December 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

PGI could make a separate group queue, and just let people drop in groups of 2, 4, 6, or 12. Then match up teams of different size as needed to make a full team. No pugs necessary. Maybe put a cap on the size of a group so that full 12 man premades don't dominate over the smaller teams if that starts to occur.

See above. Game does that now. if I am running a 6 man, we might get grouped with a solo, a 2 man and a 3 man.

Tincan Nightmare, on 31 December 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

Honestly, this whole thread is just people venting (on both sides), PGI is evidently unconcerned with this mode anymore and just seems to have switched all their efforts over to Solaris. Nothing will change, just more random events to draw players in (for a short term), then back to low population CW and everyone playing QP.

Yes, and that's the problem. Nothing will change unless PGI shows a desire to make their "end game content" be something other than garbage and then act on that desire. You are right on the money here, as that is unlikely...after all the mode is "fine" according to PGI.

[riverslq]

Mystere, on 30 December 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

How can solo-only drops winning a planet owned by a unit without ever facing them not be a safe space?

Or are you suggesting that solos have their own separate Inner Sphere?

You want to the game to live? or die?

FP as it is means death.

[Fleeb the Mad]

Quote

MischiefSC, on 30 December 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

Since Group Queue got nerfed for, you know, groups (so that we'd get all those 'casual players with a buddy or two' who were just waiting to play but it was nofair against groups.... who never showed up because bads still lose to less bads, they lost 100% as much and never showed just leaving group queue a crappy place to play as a group) FW is it for a teamwork environment save for the huge commitment of 8v8 comp play which most people don't have time or energy for.

One point of order here. The group queue always belonged to the 2-3 man groups and by PGI's own admission only a small minority of groups were large enough to make up even half of a given team. Small teams still are the foundation of the group queue.

The 'nerfs' you speak of were nothing but compromises made to solve matchmaking problems with the failure of 3/3/3/3 and equal class/tonnage balancing. Class and tonnage matchmaking created problems because generally larger groups would be formed of heavies or assaults and the MM would have to find lighter filler mechs somewhere, or make mismatched teams. This was generally always in favor of the large team. The only way to balance matches is, logically, to give larger groups some sort of disadvantage by limiting their options.

People who play in large groups complaining about 'bads' ruining all their gameplay seem to have an entitlement complex concerning much of the game's content. The vast majority of the players in the group queue play in small teams. There is no other place for those casual puggers to goof off with a few friends since they were all punted out of the QP queues. As such people are going to have to accept that the group queue has to serve those people before catering to the ~20% of players who play in teams larger than five. People who take the game seriously have the self-advertised hard mode of CW, or a new competitive queue.

The game already panders far too much to such a small segment of the player base. The game can't survive without the puggers that are so routinely looked down on. It can continue to survive without unit or group play of any sort. Keep that in mind.

[Lykaon]

TWIAFU, on 31 December 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

So PGI has to make a new safer Solaris for the new install/casual/average player.

Separate queues on Solaris! We cannot allow for the average, casual, new install fight against anyone that is not average, casual or likewise a fresh install. It is not fair! If you do not support separating queues to stop seal clubbing in Solaris you are a Solaris Seal Clubber!

How can you people even play against some casual in a trial mech with your uber meta alpha builds?!?!?

/sarcasm



And groups cannot be allowed in 2v2 Solaris! Not fair to PUGs! We need a solo only 2v2 and group only 2v2 Solaris Queues!

End Solaris Seal Clubbing now! Save the Seals!

Except that even if granted all they desire they will still be the victims of grouper alt accounts synchro dropping...so maybe we should enforce I.P. bans on all players who have ever joined a unit or dropped in a group....

/fixed, #puggie safespace!