147 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

PSR? KDR? W/L?



I use a joystick.

[Liquid Leopard]

Maybe I'm in Tier 1 because PGI misunderstood when Koniving said I count as two players...

[ANOM O MECH]

MrMadguy, on 04 January 2018 - 12:21 AM, said:

What is wrong with current system - is that your matches have to be extremely bad in order for your rating to stay stable and when you have relatively good matches (at least not bad) - your rating rises, that will eventually bring you to bad matches. This is wrong, because MM's logic should be simple: bad matches - you drop, good (not bad) - you're stable, excellent matches - you rise. Your rating should be stable, when you play at your level of skill, not when you're stomped in every single match. As simple, as that.

Again. There shouldn't be "bad" players in game, that has matchmaker. There is nothing bad in being "bad player", cuz skill - is purely relative thing. One just can't jump over his natural skill. Simple thing - bad players just should play against bad players. We have Tier 5, full of noobs, i.e. place, where one can drop to, if he is bad player. But I can only climb... It's proven fact, that it's almost impossible to drop.

It's ok for other players to be "elitists" and not to understand this, but if PGI just don't understand this simple thing - then they're incompetent game developers. As simple, as that.

The biggest weakness I see in this system is the emphasis on winning.

The worst you get in a win is an =.

It kind of makes sense why the designers thought this way. They were clearly trying to place emphasis on winning and helping. Damage and assists being rewarded higher than kills to try and promote cohesion and teamwork.

It actually is admirable and the premise is at least virtuous.

Unfortunately the vast majority of the population at any level or tier is wholly uninterested in teamwork.

The first step that would at least keep some of the truely terrible out of tier one (which is not the case now), is for the system to be based on performance in that team environment. You should absolutely go down in rating if you win but do not contribute or perform poorly.

Even the worst players will get carried and are basically given a free pass if not outright rewarded on wins. This doesn't make sense if you are not actually helping the team to win.

Edited by tker 669, 04 January 2018 - 01:29 PM.

[Curccu]

The Basilisk, on 04 January 2018 - 07:43 AM, said:

Comp game .... defines itself by people that search for people that would pose some competition for them.
And also Comp play has long stoped to find place inside of MWO queues, regardless of FP, group or QP queue.

Comp players play in leagues in lobbys where they can fight decent adversaries.

That was direct question to Ted really

[blood4blood]

It's an XP bar based on team performance more than individual performance. If the image below works, you'll see me, me and me on my 3 accounts according to Jarl's List. My main account is where I mess around, try new builds, level mechs, play all weight classes, etc. and it's gone to Tier 2 despite the bad stats, whereas my alt accounts have much better stats but I play them less and they're both still Tier 3.

[sycocys]

If you ever -gamed- the system because say you got screwed over by a terrible event where 9/12 players insta quit searching for a particular map and lost upwards of 75 straight matches as a result....

Well then you'd understand that the tier system is basically an xp bar based on how much damage you can output in a match.

Winning doesn't matter because even if you lose every match and put out 800+ damage, you are going forward. If you are running mechs with 80-100+ alphas, you can see how little effort you have to put into developing any skills to crank through the tiers.

Give it a try, you'll see why so many people hit T1 so fast. It's an xp grind, and not a very well thought out one.

[Brain Cancer]

MrMadguy, on 03 January 2018 - 11:35 PM, said:

I guess, that you forget, that PSR - is TWO FACTOR system. In order to have stable rating you have to have both W/L = 1 and MS = 250. Everything, higher than that - is increase of PSR. Lower - decrease. But both affect each other. We don't know exact numbers, but one can assume, that MS = 200 would require W/L around 1.3.

Actually, no. As long as you're MS 250+, you never lose PSR, even with an abomination of a W/L ratio. You keep being better that the tater field, you gain tier bar and eventually tier up.

[General Solo]

Agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 250 Match score on a loss means no change

MrMadguy, on 03 January 2018 - 10:47 PM, said:

So if tiers mean alot to you, focus doing well on a loss, at least 250 matchscore

WINS, who cares, can't can go down anyway. I mean of course you care....you know what I mean.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 05 January 2018 - 05:18 PM.

[InfinityBall]

justcallme A S H, on 02 January 2018 - 09:37 PM, said:

Essentially to climb to T1 you don't even need to win 50% of the time. Just post 400dmg or more a match, one kill and a KMDD consistently. Realistically that should not be hard even for a average player. That's literally about all there is to it.

Given that it's theoretically impossible for the average player to do that well (as there are 24 players a match and fewer than 24 kills to go around), that seems wrong.

[ANOM O MECH]

InfinityBall, on 06 January 2018 - 06:30 PM, said:

Given that it's theoretically impossible for the average player to do that well (as there are 24 players a match and fewer than 24 kills to go around), that seems wrong.

The queue is full of heavies and assaults.

It's easy to 400 damage a game and I forget the exact way the score is calculated but think those with a match score average of 250 or so are in this ballpark.

If you sort the leaderboard by match score you will see that there are an awful lot of players doing 400 or more damage a game.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Mystere, on 04 January 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

PSR? KDR? W/L?



I use a joystick.

If torso pitch and yaw could be configured for actual analogue movement I'd even use two joysticks
But HoSaM works well enough as well to entertain.

[arcana75]

InfinityBall, on 06 January 2018 - 06:30 PM, said:

Given that it's theoretically impossible for the average player to do that well (as there are 24 players a match and fewer than 24 kills to go around), that seems wrong.

tker 669, on 07 January 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

The queue is full of heavies and assaults.

It's easy to 400 damage a game and I forget the exact way the score is calculated but think those with a match score average of 250 or so are in this ballpark.

If you sort the leaderboard by match score you will see that there are an awful lot of players doing 400 or more damage a game.

He's saying it's impossible to consistently get 1 kill, 1 KMDD and 400 damage for every match, emphasis on the kill, cuz there's 24 players and on paper only 23 kills, so statistically speaking someone is missing out on a kill.

I'm not saying I agree, but that's what I think he was trying to convey.

[Dago Red]

arcana75, on 09 January 2018 - 06:43 AM, said:

He's saying it's impossible to consistently get 1 kill, 1 KMDD and 400 damage for every match, emphasis on the kill, cuz there's 24 players and on paper only 23 kills, so statistically speaking someone is missing out on a kill.

I'm not saying I agree, but that's what I think he was trying to convey.

Especially once you count in the self kills do to overheat and friendly fire mishaps. Plus if you end up with a real rockstar on your team getting 4-5 kills there just aren't enough left to go around.

[Sjorpha]

arcana75, on 09 January 2018 - 06:43 AM, said:

He's saying it's impossible to consistently get 1 kill, 1 KMDD and 400 damage for every match, emphasis on the kill, cuz there's 24 players and on paper only 23 kills, so statistically speaking someone is missing out on a kill.

I'm not saying I agree, but that's what I think he was trying to convey.

And he's right, it is impossible. In practice there are a lot fewer than 1 kill per player and a lot less than 400 damage average as well. People have way unrealistic ideas on what the averages in this game is.

Some people also seem to think that if everyone was better, the averages would go up which is also false. If everyone played like Proton the average kills would still be below 1 and the average damage still below 400, because those are just the mathematical realities of the game.

[HekiDanjo]

...yea, it's an xp bar.
See that tier number...my number of posts...anyone here know much of me?
It's because I'm a filthy casual of average ability and of an age of declining reflexes. At tier 3, I generally did okay but sometimes didn't. In tier 2, I'm cannon fodder trying to get better within the confines of limited play time.
The game was much more fun before my tier rank outstripped my ability.

[James Argent]

Sjorpha, on 09 January 2018 - 07:14 AM, said:

Some people also seem to think that if everyone was better, the averages would go up which is also false. If everyone played like Proton the average kills would still be below 1 and the average damage still below 400, because those are just the mathematical realities of the game.

I know...they try to quote some stat they want to have as the baseline for being queued with 'group X' (W/L, K/D) and somehow don't expect that stat to change after a hard cut off of everyone else from 'group X.' But every match, no matter who is in it, is going to have 12 winners and 12 losers...some who get kills and some who don't. Those who lose and don't get kills may get replaced by the top stat earners from 'group Y' below them, but on average those players haven't really gotten any better, they just had an easier time with their stats after being cut off from the big dogs in 'group X' who were previously farming them.

[MrMadguy]

Brain Cancer, on 05 January 2018 - 11:59 AM, said:

Actually, no. As long as you're MS 250+, you never lose PSR, even with an abomination of a W/L ratio. You keep being better that the tater field, you gain tier bar and eventually tier up.

I talk about average match score, not absolute. When your average match score is 250, it doesn't mean, that you earn exactly 250 in every single match. Sometimes it's 100, sometimes it's 400.



See? I'm in 37% and it should be Tier 4, as I've said.

My average stats within all seasons are - W/L < 1 and MS < 200. What does it mean? It means, that on average I should have gone down. But I haven't. I'm in Tier 2 instead. Why? Because PSR is XP bar.

Edited by MrMadguy, 10 January 2018 - 02:35 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Avg of 190 with a .9 WLR will keep you from dropping - just.

As long as the games BELOW ~200m/s don't exceed the games ABOVE it...

or

The ones ABOVE it are WELL above and the ones BELOW are just below...

Both those scenarios will mean you actually go up.

[MrMadguy]

justcallme A S H, on 10 January 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

Avg of 190 with a .9 WLR will keep you from dropping - just.

As long as the games BELOW ~200m/s don't exceed the games ABOVE it...

or

The ones ABOVE it are WELL above and the ones BELOW are just below...

Both those scenarios will mean you actually go up.

W/L = 0.89 means more losses, than wins.
AvgMS = 174 means more games below 250, than above.
Both should cause drop of rating even with current biased PSR system... But it doesn't happen. I guess, "Small drop" is way too small in comparison to "Moderate rise". Not even 1/2. 1/10 may be?

[El Bandito]

sycocys, on 05 January 2018 - 03:16 AM, said:

If you ever -gamed- the system because say you got screwed over by a terrible event where 9/12 players insta quit searching for a particular map and lost upwards of 75 straight matches as a result....

Well then you'd understand that the tier system is basically an xp bar based on how much damage you can output in a match.

Winning doesn't matter because even if you lose every match and put out 800+ damage, you are going forward. If you are running mechs with 80-100+ alphas, you can see how little effort you have to put into developing any skills to crank through the tiers.

Give it a try, you'll see why so many people hit T1 so fast. It's an xp grind, and not a very well thought out one.

Hah, I WISH my pugmates in SQ can put out 800+ damage every game. They don't.