57 replies to this topic

[Relishcakes]

In some places i see people whining that this or that mech is OP. In other places i see people whining that this or that weapon is OP. Which one is right? Cause if i am going to call ******** on any of it i'd like to do so with at least some accuracy! Even if the whole argument is asinine.

For example, i pilot a cougar "C" with 4HML, 2 HLL, and ECM. Everyone trask talks the cougar but i love it to death! Many people also hate the HLL for one reason or another....the only thing i can think of is that its hot as ****.

Thanks.

[K O Z A K]

Most of it is very subjective, and a lot of people do the OP whining because they specifically want something nerfed into unusability so they have an easier time playing against it

cougar is ok, it packs quite a punch but is really slow for a light

[Relishcakes]

sycocys, on 09 January 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

Teamwork is OP, and that's why you are still in tier 4.

i am T4 because only within the most recent did i start giving a **** about not sucking. Check my stats. Remarkable uptick in the last few months in kd/wl/not suck.

[kuma8877]

sycocys, on 09 January 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

Teamwork is OP, and that's why you are still in tier 4.

While I agree that Teamwork is OP, I'm not so sure your jab worked as well as you seem to think.... considering the age of accounts that is.

[Relishcakes]

kuma8877, on 09 January 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

While I agree that Teamwork is OP, I'm not so sure your jab worked as well as you seem to think.... considering the age of accounts that is.

Team work is OP however my question still stands, are mechs generally what needs balancing or is it the tech? My opinion is tech but i have seen both complained about. Was just looking for some opinions.

[Mcgral18]

Relishcakes, on 09 January 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

Team work is OP however my question still stands, are mechs generally what needs balancing or is it the tech? My opinion is tech but i have seen both complained about. Was just looking for some opinions.

It's both
There are some very bad Clam mechs, but none worse than the worst Sphere robot

One way to put it:
There's a sub 15% Sphere pick rate for a reason, but Mr Gargles isn't that reason

[N0ni]

Knowing when to shoot, when to twist at what angle, where to move, firing angles with least exposure, where to lead for ballistics, where to shoot mechs for the quickest kill, being able to adapt/wing it on the fly to constant changing situations, knowing spawn locations and where they are most likely to move at to set up an easy counter, etc.

tl;dr: Expertise in game knowledge is OP. And there's not a damn thing you can do to nerf the player him/herself. (Unless PGI starts banning people for being too good LOL)

[Yosharian]

sycocys, on 09 January 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

Teamwork is OP, and that's why you are still in tier 4.

What a douchey comment. His statement had literally nothing to do with tiers. Grow up.

Edited by Yosharian, 09 January 2018 - 04:34 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Why do people keep serving these threads up to me.
Sigh.

The answer to your question OP is a subjective one of course, with only PGI -and their data and perfect understanding of same- being capable of giving you the real answer. Only the keepers of balance can tell you what is OP...at least according to their data.

Seven months ago PGI suggested chassis to chassis and tech balance was "as close as it has ever been". So at that time then perhaps nothing was OP or only marginally so? Yet, despite that "close as its ever been balance" we have had nearly nonstop balance passes of mostly nerfs to bring presumably over performing weapons and mechs into better balance. So presumably balance is now even better than the "as close as its ever been" of seven months ago. But does that mean nothing is OP? Beats the hell out of me, but I sure hope all that nerfing was done for a reason. But PGI aint talking, so we are left to our own assessments.

Now, since PGI is of no help, we must ask the players. A given player will give a different answer depending on bias, mode, and personal skill level. Is the answer then: Deathstrike, Assassin, Bushwacker, Hunchback IIc, etc. Clan gauss vomit, IS ballistics? Marauder IIC, Cyclops, etc.? Yes. And No. And everything in between. All I know is that Chris and Russ have already hinted at yet another (small) balance pass this month so whatever is currently OP according to their data, will be less so soon enough.



God damn I am so sick of this BS.

[Relishcakes]

Bud Crue, on 09 January 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

Why do people keep serving these threads up to me.
Sigh.

The answer to your question OP is a subjective one of course, with only PGI -and their data and perfect understanding of same- being capable of giving you the real answer. Only the keepers of balance can tell you what is OP...at least according to their data.

Seven months ago PGI suggested chassis to chassis and tech balance was "as close as it has ever been". So at that time then perhaps nothing was OP or only marginally so? Yet, despite that "close as its ever been balance" we have had nearly nonstop balance passes of mostly nerfs to bring presumably over performing weapons and mechs into better balance. So presumably balance is now even better than the "as close as its ever been" of seven months ago. But does that mean nothing is OP? Beats the hell out of me, but I sure hope all that nerfing was done for a reason. But PGI aint talking, so we are left to our own assessments.

Now, since PGI is of no help, we must ask the players. A given player will give a different answer depending on bias, mode, and personal skill level. Is the answer then: Deathstrike, Assassin, Bushwacker, Hunchback IIc, etc. Clan gauss vomit, IS ballistics? Marauder IIC, Cyclops, etc.? Yes. And No. And everything in between. All I know is that Chris and Russ have already hinted at yet another (small) balance pass this month so whatever is currently OP according to their data, will be less so soon enough.



God damn I am so sick of this BS.

Personal opinion is that its pretty damn balanced as far as numbers go. Yeah some weapons are going to "over perform" as compared to others but thats because of the nature of LRMS themselves(lets be honest here, LRMS arent a good primary weapon). People just wanna be OP so they can seal club easier.

Edited by Relishcakes, 09 January 2018 - 04:46 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Relishcakes, on 09 January 2018 - 04:45 PM, said:

Personal opinion is that its pretty damn balanced as far as numbers go. Yeah some weapons are going to "over perform" as compared to others but thats because of the nature of LRMS themselves(lets be honest here, LRMS arent a good primary weapon). People just wanna be OP so they can seal club easier.

I lack the skill to be seal clubber. I just want some friggin consistency. I just want to know that what I build today will have ABC values in week or a month and not all of a sudden be XYZ because PGI decides ISML are over performing despite just having an energy pass in June, and major balance pass in September, and then another energy pass in October.

Is that to much to ask? That they actually balance when they say they are balancing? To stop breaking my stuff out of the ****ing blue? To pretend that between September and October the data SUDDENLY showed a weapon that was not OP last month ...or any month in the last five years...to now be OP is BS! This crap has nothing to do do with things being OP or to prevent "seal clubbing" or god forbid the ever illusory "balance". It is either A) incompetence, or B ) to drive reconfiguration and renode-ing of mechs to fuel a stupid cbill sink. Either way it has made me stop spending (and I was a whale among whales), stop caring, and its close to making me and a lot of folks I know who are of a similar level of annoyance leave the game entirely. If that is their balance goal, well then I guess balance is ****ing perfect.

Edited by Bud Crue, 09 January 2018 - 05:00 PM.

[Agent 0range]

Base clan tech is superior to IS tech, they try to balance hard bonuses (weight, crit slots, Damage, range) with soft bonuses (rate of fire, beam duration/number of slugs, heat to damage ratio) and it doesn't work so they then give mechs quirks to bring them up to par which still doesn't work because a bit of extra armour will help you once, but more damage range and higher alpha helps every time you shoot.

There have been a number of suggestion to balance out the base tech differences giving each tech base a different feel but they dont listen.

Minor things like make the targeting computers equal for clans and IS no one is going to moan about that and it would remove one very minor diffrence bringing the balance closer

[naterist]

they mess with weapons all the time, i think actual weapon systems, with the exception of heavy lasers, are in a good place. what they need to do to get true balance is mess with the equipment. IS equipment does about the same as clan except it has way lower benefit due to size (and the obvious problem with IS-XL, death on st loss).

buff IS equipment, and then you will have true balance. having dhs's weigh the same, do the same thing, but be 33% larger is not balanced, especially when it compounds with is tech being larger slotwise, and weight wise, in general.

rule of thumb, if its bigger, it should perform better.

[LowSubmarino]

Bad players (cannonfodder) have been whining about basically any and all weapon system in mwo.

Ppc/Gauss op.

Lasers op.

Ac op.

LRMS (hahahaha) op.

Wait....lemme repeat that.

Thousands of thousands of ppl actually complained about L R Ms being op.

The weapons system that even a drunk turtle that is completly koed would evade with ease and not even taking one single scratch.

Yeah.

Ppl actualyl whined that lrms are op.

In taht light and with consistent whining for more than half a decade, you have mechs nowdays that simply wont die.

Urban mechs (hahaha omg) absorb as much dmg as the friigging vip mech. More even.

Mechs take thousands of hits from ppcs and keep walking.

Its gotten so ridiculous that by now.....i dont even recognize anything I read in the books. That was so different, taht this has nothing to do with lore any more.

Those are mechs with advanced energy shields taht absorb basically any and all kind of dmg. No matter what they are hit with.

Light mechs (wolfhound) that take double gauss hits as if its nothing. Multiple double gauss hits. Np. They shrug it off.

Light mechs.

Its gotten kinda pathetic.

Completly dumbed down game where even the worst players can just stand int he middle on open field and survie 12 mechs hammering them for many seconds.

So unrealistic that its not the same feeling it used to be.

Weapons were deadly in mwo. Big huge BFGs taht would devastate mechs. Even the bigggest mechs would crumble.

Now?

Weapons are a joke.

Mechs immortal.

Thats because you ppl are always whining how unfair and too strong this and that is. Crying like babies. Instead of fighting and playing like a real man.

Not like a crybaby.

Crybabies destroyed mwo.

Edited by oneda, 09 January 2018 - 05:25 PM.

[JediPanther]

To pugs only the mech/weapon they died to is op. But when they use that same weapon/mech and win it is 'just fine.' If mechs themselves were op you'd find the que for them very high with long wait times as more people playing them would mean less in the other mech classes.

No one is going to claim that the spider 5v or lct 1v is flat out better and superior to the clan ach or even try and compare the 2c jenner fury to the ach with the same claim.

You'll find lots of fotm and suddenly popular mech/builds though. Remember when before the six mgs no one used the myth lynx?

[Agent 0range]

IS drop decks have 6% more weight says it all and it is around about the difference in average effectiveness in between the techs are far as people have managed to figure out from matches won etc, where we get access to the data(some claim it is closer to 8%)

in a competitive game 6% is a lot anyone who has played world of tanks knows 48% average win players are not very good while 54% average win means good and the clan tech gives that bonus to anyone who uses clan over IS tech.

Edited by Agent 0range, 09 January 2018 - 05:41 PM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Mcgral18, on 09 January 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

There's a sub 15% Sphere pick rate for a reason

Is that so? Well, I guess that's what you've got after no one made a clan-based game in 25 years.

[justcallme A S H]

Mcgral18, on 09 January 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

It's both
There are some very bad Clam mechs, but none worse than the worst Sphere robot

One way to put it:
There's a sub 15% Sphere pick rate for a reason, but Mr Gargles isn't that reason

Exactly. Clan has an edge, more so since Skill Maze which was meant to make balance closer, but has failed miserably.

To add to that bad players think anything that kills them is... Wait for it... OP. Or that people are "hacking". I mean a player I know of, 2 nights ago, was accused of using a Aimbot by another player... Said player was using LRMs. I mean how much more ridiculous can you get?

Hell some of the biggest whingers on this forum I've seen or have screenshots of them hackusating or calling various things OP in-game. They just need to stop and get over it. Instead they jump up and down, harrass Ross on twitter and then they get pandered too. It's ridiculous and part the reason why MWO is in a poor balance state... It's too hard to make out the good feedback from the totally crazy.

[El Bandito]

sycocys, on 09 January 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

Teamwork is OP, and that's why you are still in tier 4.

Correction: At T4, personal skill matters more than teamwork. As for OP's claim that Cougar is good, at T4 any mech can be good cause that tier is populated by raw potatoes. Get up to T1, and then claim Cougar is good again.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 January 2018 - 06:12 PM.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 09 January 2018 - 06:11 PM, said:

Correction: At T4, personal skill matters more than teamwork. As for OP's claim that Cougar is good, at T4 any mech can be good cause that tier is populated by raw potatoes. Get up to T1, and then claim Cougar is good again.

To be fair, almost anything can be get good results once in a while in T1 because of the XP-bar phenomenon. The real test is how consistently they can do it, since most of the people making these claims only take a handful of cherry-picked screenshots...