281 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Divenity, on 12 January 2018 - 05:20 PM, said:

No, they died by being stupid, and then they quit.

After that initial colossal failure, they actively collectively decided, over voice comms, to stop trying and just farm kills from spawn. They ceased attempting to accomplish the goal of the game mode, that is quitting.

It's like going to play a sport, let's say soccer/football. One team runs in circles the entire time and ignores the goal of the game. That team quit, they are no longer playing the game they are supposed to be there to play, just like that team quit playing siege and decided for myself and the entire other team that they would rather instead play skirmish.
I was there to play the game mode we were assigned, Siege, my team wanted to play Skirmish, I couldn't stop them from playing Skirmish instead of Siege, but I could decide not to participate in their absurdity.
Show me where it's acceptable to quit via refusing to even attempt to attack while on the attacking team on siege and just farm kills from spawn, because that's what they decided to do.

So? You were stuck on atypical Clan PUG team? Wanted to play peek a boo and your enemy was not going to allow it.

Props to your enemy for denying you cheese. That is what you get for playing solo in the Group Queue. Bet you didn't learn your lesson. Maybe next time, doubtful, but maybe.

And AGAIN, you deflect and will not answer a question because you know you are full of sh*t.

I do not have to show you anything in the CoC because even from your recall of events, and by your own admission, your team did nothing wrong other then being dumb *** pugs. They played the match, albeit badly, they dropping in their mechs, they shot their lazorz, they played the match. Playing like an idiot is not against the CoC. They never DC, ran out of bounds, shut down, or any other action that violates ROE.

Now, AGAIN, show us exactly the the 'acceptable' reasons for quitting in MWO. PGI listed reasons, valid reasons. Not what you think the reason are.

You said there are, now prove it.

Put up or shut up.

Divenity, on 12 January 2018 - 07:11 PM, said:

I don't dislike faction play, I just think it could be done much better.

Start by playing in a Group/Unit.

Divenity, on 12 January 2018 - 08:07 PM, said:

Dunno who told you that was an Albert Einstein quote, but it's not, just so you know.

So, who's is it then?

[TWIAFU]

Divenity, on 12 January 2018 - 09:37 PM, said:

Except for, you know, contributing to the war effort.

I'm not, I just want groups to fight other groups instead of stomping pugs, which, from their own admission (of every premade I've asked so far), they don't enjoy doing anyways.

How, exactly?

You, as a solo, cannot take a planet tag.

You, as non unit player, cannot own a planet.

If by dropping as solo is 'helping war effort', sure, guess you can make that claim.

So, just join a group and you will no longer be seal to a groups club.

After reading your posts, I can say will take joy in clubbing you.

See you soon!

Edited by TWIAFU, 13 January 2018 - 04:29 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Tarl Cabot, on 12 January 2018 - 10:08 PM, said:

I, even though I solo pug more often than not, would not want a hard separation in place for FP/Siege. There isnt a population to separate it like Quick Play is currently setup. An option would be for PGI to add a selection to opt in for solo/group only. Which ever queue needs a body gets it first. Deselected would be normal FP, and this would apply only to Siege but not with Scouting.

This would not prevent sync dropping, and that is one flag I do not believe PGI would even code in. Of course if a duo is dropping in group and no other groups dropping at the moment that would pull 10 solo pugs into group. The question would be, would PGI code it so even if a 12-man is in queue it will not pull all solo pugs, that the opposition would require a formed group, even if it is a duo? Unlikely not.

To note the QP GroupQ for a good 6-8hrs a cycle can be a 15-20min wait for a game too. Again, due to such low population.

Something the OP is neither prepared to try to understand or acknowledge because it makes his idea instantly redundant

Edited by justcallme A S H, 13 January 2018 - 06:14 AM.

[Quandoo]

I prefer 5 minutes of wait to hours of wasted time by super bad matchmaking. There was not a single good game within 30 games or so (quickplay). And all for the 10 second invite...

I expect this game to respect ranks . But I guess this game is owned by a bad publisher who dont care, except for releasing new mechpacks for $70 every week.

Edited by Quandoo, 13 January 2018 - 05:36 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

for those saying splitting the queues for faction play was tried and did not work, that is not exactly true,
what happened was PGI made a "unit members queue" and a "untagged" queue, one queue was for players with unit tags, the other was for players without, this is not the same as a faction play queue for solo players and a FP queue for groups.


my opinion on the best way to do this would be to roll the regular solo and group queues into faction play
solo\group queue remain unchanged you can play any Mech but if you have a contract you will be put on the relevent side, if you are not contracted you can be used as filler for ether side, your games have an impact on the overall tug of war but the battle for a planet is decided in invasion mode, to take the planet your side has to get to [insert number]% planatory control then while at that percentage win [insert number of] nodes to seize control of the planet.

if one side has insufficent filler to make up a team your score goes for a "boarder skirmish" type mode where the dominant faction gets whe win, this way e.g. Wolf (dominant faction on the winning team) could win a planet from Ghost Bear (dominant loosers) if Wolf gets sufficent wins inside a fixed time limit, this could even be used to determine which faction wins the planet in the main invasion mode, e.g. 228th win the majority of the invasion mode matches while under contract to Steiner so the planet is taged 228th but the planet ends up with the FRR faction because the FRR won the most IS v IS matches during the window.

leave current faction play mode for people with a contract who sign up for the existing invasion or scouting modes.

people can earn faction points (albeit at a slower rate) in the regular solo/group queue removing tne main incentive for solos to join invasion mode.

other things that can be tried is insisting that VOIP be setup and enabled, and team+lance text chat must be enabled if you want to drop in the faction play modes

[Divenity]

TWIAFU, on 13 January 2018 - 04:16 AM, said:

So? You were stuck on atypical Clan PUG team? Wanted to play peek a boo and your enemy was not going to allow it.

They did allow it, actually, that's how we lost 10 mechs before the gate even opened.

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And AGAIN, you deflect and will not answer a question because you know you are full of sh*t.

You not liking my answer doesn't make it a deflection, you claiming it's a deflection does make you an ******* though.

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I do not have to show you anything in the CoC because even from your recall of events, and by your own admission, your team did nothing wrong other then being dumb *** pugs. They played the match, albeit badly, they dropping in their mechs, they shot their lazorz, they played the match. Playing like an idiot is not against the CoC. They never DC, ran out of bounds, shut down, or any other action that violates ROE.

Now, AGAIN, show us exactly the the 'acceptable' reasons for quitting in MWO. PGI listed reasons, valid reasons. Not what you think the reason are.

You said there are, now prove it.

Put up or shut up.

They ceased attempting to accomplish the goal of the match, that is quitting just as much as I was, difference is when I quit, there was no one left for me to abandon, because they all abandoned me first.

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So, who's is it then?

I don't know, but there is a lot of evidence that it has been around since at least the early 1880s, around 70 years before AE was credited for saying it.

[vandalhooch]

Divenity, on 12 January 2018 - 09:37 PM, said:

Except for, you know, contributing to the war effort.

How does fighting in a semi-randomly assembled Quick Play match "contribute" to anything?

You do know that in wars you don't get to tell the other side who you are and are not willing to face off against?

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I'm not, I just want groups to fight other groups instead of stomping pugs, which, from their own admission (of every premade I've asked so far), they don't enjoy doing anyways.

There's your defensive ego using the "same unit tags" as an excuse for why you got beat. What would your excuse be when you get stomped in your dream kiddie pool by a team made up of much better pilots who happen to not be in the same unit?

[Divenity]

vandalhooch, on 13 January 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

How does fighting in a semi-randomly assembled Quick Play match "contribute" to anything?

You do know that in wars you don't get to tell the other side who you are and are not willing to face off against?

You do know that in wars intel is a thing that exists and regular forces aren't generally sent on missions that would require special forces units, because the intel told the command structure that it would be a bad idea?

In this scenario, the pugs are regular forces, and the premades are special forces, the separated queue is command sending the correct soldiers to the areas where they are required, and sometimes command will get bad intel and send an elite unit where they weren't needed (sync drops in solo queue).

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There's your defensive ego using the "same unit tags" as an excuse for why you got beat. What would your excuse be when you get stomped in your dream kiddie pool by a team made up of much better pilots who happen to not be in the same unit?

"Guess we ****** up", same as it is when I get into a FP match that is 100% pugs, but, I've never been in a FP matchagainst pugs that was anywhere near as one sided as the average pugs vs premade is.


And again, so far all the premades I've encountered say themselves they don't enjoy stomping pugs...
If they aren't having fun either, separation makes sense.

Edited by Divenity, 13 January 2018 - 11:04 AM.

[MischiefSC]

vandalhooch, on 13 January 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

How does fighting in a semi-randomly assembled Quick Play match "contribute" to anything?

You do know that in wars you don't get to tell the other side who you are and are not willing to face off against?



There's your defensive ego using the "same unit tags" as an excuse for why you got beat. What would your excuse be when you get stomped in your dream kiddie pool by a team made up of much better pilots who happen to not be in the same unit?

It's one of the big fallacies of the whole "just split the queue until I'm a winner" dream.

It doesn't change skill distribution. Bad players will still lose to good players. Good players will just use in game voip to coordinate and drive wins vs bads who don't. Bads will continue to pretend that it's someone else's fault (those evil premade and their teamwork haxx or their bad teammates, etc.

You can't nerf everything until bads are not bad. It doesn't work that way. So they're always going to lose to better players. There are not enough players to ensure that terribads only play terribads.

[Divenity]

MischiefSC, on 13 January 2018 - 11:04 AM, said:

It's one of the big fallacies of the whole "just split the queue until I'm a winner" dream.

It doesn't change skill distribution. Bad players will still lose to good players. Good players will just use in game voip to coordinate and drive wins vs bads who don't. Bads will continue to pretend that it's someone else's fault (those evil premade and their teamwork haxx or their bad teammates, etc.

You can't nerf everything until bads are not bad. It doesn't work that way. So they're always going to lose to better players. There are not enough players to ensure that terribads only play terribads.

And none of that is my goal, so, good job missing the point.

[vandalhooch]

Divenity, on 13 January 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

You do know that in wars intel is a thing that exists and regular forces aren't generally sent on missions that would require special forces units, because the intel told the command structure that it would be a bad idea?

And if those regular forces come up against an elite force do they get to say "no fair" and not fight?

"Hey Germany, no fair using your elite, battle hardened divisions to defend France. We specifically dropped in the curated kiddie pool in order to only have to fight your greenest, youngest recruits."

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In this scenario, the pugs are regular forces, and the premades are special forces, the separated queue is command sending the correct soldiers to the areas where they are required.

You will also note that command will send their best forces against their opponent's weakest forces whenever possible.

"Sir, we have Clan Wolf forces dropping onto our planet to take it."

"What's the make up of those forces?"

"They're mostly green recruits who can't read a simple warning."

"Well, I guess we will have to lose this planet then."

"Sir? We have several elite units sitting here in the base doing nothing!"

"I know. But, this is kiddie pool war. Those greenies didn't sign up to go against everything we have. They specifically requested to not have to face good opponents."

"Sir, this war is ridiculous."

"Agreed."

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"Guess we ****** up", same as it is when I get into a FP match that is 100% pugs, but, I've never been in a FP matchagainst pugs that was anywhere near as one sided as the average pugs vs premade is.

And your sample size of 50 matches is equivalent to my 3000+?

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And again, so far all the premades I've encountered say themselves they don't enjoy stomping pugs...
If they aren't having fun either, separation makes sense.

Or, we can come up with a different system that doesn't destroy the entire point of Faction Play existing.

Edited by vandalhooch, 13 January 2018 - 11:20 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Divenity, on 13 January 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

You do know that in wars intel is a thing that exists and regular forces aren't generally sent on missions that would require special forces units, because the intel told the command structure that it would be a bad idea?

In this scenario, the pugs are regular forces, and the premades are special forces, the separated queue is command sending the correct soldiers to the areas where they are required, and sometimes command will get bad intel and send an elite unit where they weren't needed (sync drops in solo queue).



"Guess we ****** up", same as it is when I get into a FP match that is 100% pugs, but, I've never been in a FP matchagainst pugs that was anywhere near as one sided as the average pugs vs premade is.


And again, so far all the premades I've encountered say themselves they don't enjoy stomping pugs...
If they aren't having fun either, separation makes sense.

No you don't get LP for playing in QP. No you don't get to help flip a world by avoiding playing the best the other side has to offer.

You want the higher rewards you play in the more challenging environment. I pug in scout queue with a 6.0 w/l as Clans. What you're actually saying is that you want to win more and earn more without having to get better.

I'm all for splitting the content out. Let people play the content in QP with a matchmaker. Have fun, go nuts. If you want to earn a bit more and get LP rewards, group up and play in the deep end. Saying you want the same rewards for a fraction of the effort and performance isn't reasonable.

[Divenity]

vandalhooch, on 13 January 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

And if those regular forces come up against an elite force do they get to say "no fair" and not fight?

Sometimes, retreat is a thing that happens in war, regularly.

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And your sample size of 50 matches is equivalent to my 3000+?

Nope, but it's what I have to go on.

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Or, we can come up with a different system that doesn't destroy the entire point of Faction Play existing.

Far as I'm concerned this doesn't. You saying this destroys the entire point of faction play is like claiming that soloqueue ranked in CS:GO destroys the entire point of group queue ranked. It doesn't, despite the "rewards" for both being the same.

Edited by Divenity, 13 January 2018 - 11:37 AM.

[vandalhooch]

Divenity, on 13 January 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

Sometimes, retreat is a thing that happens in war, regularly.

Like maybe you should retreat from the war until you aren't so green?

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Nope, but it's what I have to go on.

So, we should accept your analysis about what does and does not happen in Faction Play despite your admission that you have very little experience with it?

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Far as I'm concerned this doesn't. You saying this destroys the entire point of faction play is like claiming that soloqueue ranked in CS:GO destroys the entire point of group queue ranked. It doesn't, despite the "rewards" for both being the same.

That's nice. Is CS:GO group queue ranked supposed to be a persistent simulation of an interstellar war between over a dozen different factions? Because I'm failing to see any relevance beyond your continued wish to get rewards without having to do the hard things required to earn them.

[Divenity]

vandalhooch, on 13 January 2018 - 11:36 AM, said:

Like maybe you should retreat from the war until you aren't so green?

No, like retreat to redeploy to another front.

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So, we should accept your analysis about what does and does not happen in Faction Play despite your admission that you have very little experience with it?

Until the experiences I have change, this is my position, I honestly don't give a **** if you don't give a ****, I'm going to stand my ground, because for all I know, you're just being an elitist who will say whatever he has to to defend his precious. The only truth I have is the truth I've experienced.

It is, at the very least, far less frequent in pug vs pug matches, which is all I'm aiming for. You people act like I'm trying to eliminate stomps all together, I'm not, because that's impossible. I am just trying to lessen their frequency, so that people on both sides of the coin find more enjoyment. If the premades don't enjoy stomping pugs (which, I've been told my many that they don't), and the pugs don't enjoy getting stomped by premades, separation makes sense.

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That's nice. Is CS:GO group queue ranked supposed to be a persistent simulation of an interstellar war between over a dozen different factions? Because I'm failing to see any relevance beyond your continued wish to get rewards without having to do the hard things required to earn them.

And again, even the devs disagree with you to an extent, given they showed a desire to split the queues, it just wasn't feasable at the time (and the method they chose was itself flawed).

Edited by Divenity, 13 January 2018 - 12:06 PM.

[vandalhooch]

Divenity, on 13 January 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

No, like retreat to redeploy to another front.

Is that other front called "Quick Play?"

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Until the experiences I have change, this is my position, I honestly don't give a **** if you don't give a ****, I'm going to stand my ground, because for all I know, you're just being an elitist who will say whatever he has to to defend his precious. The only truth I have is the truth I've experienced.

Critical thinking is anathema to you, isn't it?

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It is, at the very least, far less frequent in pug vs pug matches, which is all I'm aiming for.

And again, even the devs disagree with you to an extent, given they showed a desire to split the queues, it just wasn't feasable at the time (and the method they chose was itself flawed).

And many of us predicted it would fail. When it released, I was willing to give it a shot but I doubted it would work.

The unit-only queue quickly flooded with single-pilot units.

[Divenity]

vandalhooch, on 13 January 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

Is that other front called "Quick Play?"

Nope.

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Critical thinking is anathema to you, isn't it?

Nope, it's just because the moment you set foot in this thread, you were nothing but a [REDACTED], so, I have no reason to believe a thing you have to say.

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And many of us predicted it would fail. When it released, I was willing to give it a shot but I doubted it would work.

The unit-only queue quickly flooded with single-pilot units.

Hence my calling it flawed, good thing I'm not suggesting unit and non-unit separation.

You were willing to give that one a shot, but not proper group and solo separation? Where's the logic there... It's a different system and you're acting like it would have the same problem.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 06:43 PM.
CoC Violation

[vandalhooch]

Divenity, on 13 January 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

Nope.

Nope, it's just because the moment you set foot in this thread, you were nothing but a [REDACTED], so, I have no reason to believe a thing you have to say.

Says the guy who called others [REDACTED] and me several other choice words.

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Hence my calling it flawed, good thing I'm not suggesting unit and non-unit separation.

You were willing to give that one a shot, but not proper group and solo separation? Where's the logic there... It's a different system and you're acting like it would have the same problem.

1 - It is plainly clear that you want the LP rewards without having to face the same challenges others had to face in order to earn them.

2 - Your proposal will absolutely not do anything to reduce the frequency of stomps in either queue.

3 - Your proposal eliminates a characteristic of Faction Play that many players find attractive. Why should they lose a piece of the game when the thing you want (Quick Play) already exists?

4 - Your proposal will split an already small player pool even further. When PGI tried the initial split the Faction Play pool was much, much larger than it is now.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 06:49 PM.
Quote Cleanup

[Divenity]

vandalhooch, on 13 January 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

Says the guy who called others [REDACTED] and me several other choice words.

All those people were being condescending to me before I started using those "choice words".

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1 - It is plainly clear that you want the LP rewards without having to face the same challenges others had to face in order to earn them.

Which would have existed with the unit and nonunit separation that you said you were willing to give a shot to. You didn't have a problem with it then?

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2 - Your proposal will absolutely not do anything to reduce the frequency of stomps in either queue.

Stomp happen less in pug vs pug than premade vs pug, this is a universal constant across all PvP games.

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3 - Your proposal eliminates a characteristic of Faction Play that many players find attractive. Why should they lose a piece of the game when the thing you want (Quick Play) already exists?

What characteristic is that? You want to queue into group play as a solo? Do it, there's an option for that in my proposal, nothing changes for you.

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4 - Your proposal will split an already small player pool even further. When PGI tried the initial split the Faction Play pool was much, much larger than it is now.

It was much larger, but it was also divided into 13 smaller queues at the time, one for each clan and house.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 06:50 PM.
Quote Cleanup

[MischiefSC]

So we're happy to try and figure out a way to remove pugging from FW while still letting people play the content.. However you don't get to just have new maps/modes for QP with all the LP rewards.

You want the rewards you have to earn them in the challenges the environment dictates. You also don't get to influence flipping worlds while dodging playing the best the other side has to offer. Scouting already exists. Pug in that.