185 replies to this topic

[Krysic]

I took time off the game, somewhere around a year, year and a half.

I come back to this new skill system and have no idea how anyone thinks it's less than a blatant increase to the grind wall. Immediately all of the animosity I developed comes rushing back after less than an hour and only one match.

Other games make money entirely on cosmetics and expansions. This game is good but it's not getting better, just the same thing stretched more and more thin.

I refused to uninstall in the constant hope that MWO would evolve into something more than a barely scratched out simulator but it seems my hopes were unfounded.

Uninstalling now.

We had a good few years, I spent a couple of hundred on you.
Would have loved to make it a few thousand but...yeah. Anyway. Bye.

[Davegt27]

solaris 7 is coming out in a few months

I would check it out

[El Bandito]

I prefer this skill tree over the old 3 for 1 system.

[Niebaum]

/facepalm

[The Lighthouse]

Davegt27, on 08 January 2018 - 11:33 PM, said:

solaris 7 is coming out in a few months

I would check it out

Do you seriously think OP would be even remotely interested in Solaris?....

[N0ni]

Hey you forgot to give us your stuff on your way out.

Raffle off your Mechs/C-Bills/MC. Keyword to enter the giveaway: KTown (case sensitive)

[UnofficialOperator]

1. Drops in T5 match
2. Gets pwned
3. ???
4. Qq ragequit

[Davegt27]

The Lighthouse, on 08 January 2018 - 11:38 PM, said:

Do you seriously think OP would be even remotely interested in Solaris?....

only thing I could think of

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

The grind is like a fifth of what it used to be and OP's mad about more grind. How does that work?

[MrMadguy]

You know... I guess, longer grind for new accounts - is PGI's way to prevent Tier 1 guys from constantly creating alt accounts to stomp lower tier guys. Plus it brings better immersion and customization. I personally don't care, cuz I have ~2K HSP and probably will never need to grind them again. This is better, than mandatory exp grind on every new 'Mech, that makes it completely gimped. Only bad thing - "Skill template" feature is really needed. Cuz clicking all this skills on 70+ 'Mechs... It was really hard and had taken several weeks, if not months. But I've done it and will never need to do it again. So, again, I no longer care about it.

[justcallme A S H]

El Bandito, on 08 January 2018 - 11:34 PM, said:

I prefer this skill tree over the old 3 for 1 system.

Except for the fact it takes about 1.5x longer to skill a single mech...

Given no-one ever unlocks just 91 nodes. Most of my mechs have ~120 nodes unlocked which is a much higher grind. Will potentially be even more if weapon values change again. Plus with such small increments you don't really notice a mech "improving" or "feeling" better.

End of the day as a new player, Skill Maze, is a longer grind and feels less rewarding. Two things that have literally causes a solid percentage of players to quit. Like it or not, it was bad for MWO.

[lazytopaz]

Meaningful/Impactful choices that come from skill tree. I wanted my mechs to do some crazy things with it whilst excelling at some things would mean they won't be as good at others. For example maybe you could specialize in one specific weapon type (e.g. RAC 5) but you can only spec in it when you have maximum 1-2 of those on your mech so maybe you can drastically (like up to 50%) increase it's velocity, reduce jam chance, cooldown or smthg. For balance purpose ofc it had work So you cannot get that kind of BIG benefits to weapon systems that you can boat in serious ammounts (from 4-6+ depending on weapon size/type/tonnage) or just the more weapon type you have diminishing return goes in effect.
Just like the armour bonus works depending on mech size.
So you won't be able to get big imba bonuses to big/heavy weapon types like MRM 40, C-UAC20, H-Gauss to e.g. cooldowns. But still you could work on secondary bonuses like velocity, jam chance or ammo bonus. Those could rack up some meaningful/impactful bonus from skill tree - maybe not as big as previously mentioned but maybe up to 25%-35%.
BUT at the same it had to involve big skill point investement so in the end you have less points to spend on things like operations, mobility, survivial, or auxiliary.


That was my personal hope for it. Alas the reality is totally different so what can we do about it?

+I would add minigame to Jam Chance mechanic that involves skill.

Just like in gears of war - when you reload you can do it quicker if you press the reload button in a specific frame of time so you can cut your reload in half.
I think that would be a good idea to give something players who want to use it.
Through out the jam you can push that weapon fire to force it to unjam faster - which will reward you with shorter jam time + weapon is ready to be fired next time you press the button. But if you fail that you will reset jam timer (or just add 1-2 seconds to the overall timer left).

Edited by lazytopaz, 09 January 2018 - 03:07 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

As someone who had come back to the game after being away about as long as the OP, I'll admit the new skill system is very intimidating and even overwhelming. Matter of fact, I was going to start playing again much earlier, but stayed away as long as I did specifically because I didn't want to deal with learning the new skill system for a game I'd only play a small bit here and there.

However, once I started messing with it, I was fine.

I just think there is a bit of an intimidation factor with how large and how numerous the skill tree, when the last time you had played, it was essentially just a hand full of check boxes.

Although I rate the tree as fine overall, I will say that I am glad I no longer have to invest in 3 mechs of the same chassis. That was a VERY nice change.

[Asym]

The grind is even worse with the new skill tree ! I experienced both as a new player ! I prefer the former system and if PGI would have been smarter. they would have removed the three mech requirement and gone with one and called it a day, saved the cost for a new map for heavens sake....

OP don't quit just yet......hold off for Solaris and MW5 because "something will happen to PGI" and it might not be what you fear: more of the same old-same old excuses.... Who knows?

[Dago Red]

justcallme A S H, on 09 January 2018 - 01:13 AM, said:

Except for the fact it takes about 1.5x longer to skill a single mech...

Given no-one ever unlocks just 91 nodes. Most of my mechs have ~120 nodes unlocked which is a much higher grind. Will potentially be even more if weapon values change again. Plus with such small increments you don't really notice a mech "improving" or "feeling" better.

End of the day as a new player, Skill Maze, is a longer grind and feels less rewarding. Two things that have literally causes a solid percentage of players to quit. Like it or not, it was bad for MWO.

I prefer the skill maze as an overall system and basically all of my mechs run better under it do to specialization than they did under the old system. BUT

As I've found out on a alt account I made to try out clan tech the grind is slow as hell and feels brutal even if the end result is better. And if I were learning what skills to get through trial and error all through ground XP with no GSP to make up for misspending I'd have gotten pissed in a hurry.

So yeah probably a net negative for new players.

Don't think I'll ever understand the vets who though it was too complicated or complained that they had to click too many times though.

Edited by Dago Red, 09 January 2018 - 11:36 PM.

[Lupis Volk]

justcallme A S H, on 09 January 2018 - 01:13 AM, said:

End of the day as a new player, Skill Maze, is a longer grind and feels less rewarding. Two things that have literally causes a solid percentage of players to quit. Like it or not, it was bad for MWO.

Say what you want about the skill tree but never say it makes a longer grind. Do you people forget that with the old system you had the rule of three. Now if you were a Clanner you were paying 15M+ for a single mech so 45M for three 15M mechs. Now add weapons..say 3M per mech that's an added 9M, add around 3M per modual and it add's up to more than what the skill tree asks of you.

So please stop spreading nostalgia based misinfomation.

Let's not forget how badly gamers react to any change.....answer badly.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 09 January 2018 - 03:43 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Lupis Volk, on 09 January 2018 - 03:42 AM, said:

Say what you want about the skill tree but never say it makes a longer grind. Do you people forget that with the old system you had the rule of three. Now if you were a Clanner you were paying 15M+ for a single mech so 45M for three 15M mechs. Now add weapons..say 3M per mech that's an added 9M, add around 3M per modual and it add's up to more than what the skill tree asks of you.

So please stop spreading nostalgia based misinfomation.

Let's not forget how badly gamers react to any change.....answer badly.

This exactly, its objectively less grind based on the numbers. You could max out every node in the entire tree and still come out having spent less than just getting the modules for a single mech before the change. About 4 million cbills to get 91 nodes compared to 6 million cbills to get *just* seismic sensor under the old system.

[Lupis Volk]

Dakota1000, on 09 January 2018 - 03:46 AM, said:

This exactly, its objectively less grind based on the numbers. You could max out every node in the entire tree and still come out having spent less than just getting the modules for a single mech before the change. About 4 million cbills to get 91 nodes compared to 6 million cbills to get *just* seismic sensor under the old system.

Quite frankly it always pisses me off when people spout that the old system was better while omitting the rule of three.

Oddly enough it's only ever mentioned when it comes to mech packs, but never when the nostalgia brigade go on and on about how good the old system was......i wonder why?

Edited by Lupis Volk, 09 January 2018 - 03:54 AM.

[Burke IV]

Its much worse than just a grind wall, try changing your loadout. Minimum 15 to 20 mins before you can get back in game and thats your new untested build. What kind of madness was it to introduce that to a game where customing your loadout is half the fun.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Lupis Volk, on 09 January 2018 - 03:47 AM, said:

Quite frankly it always pisses me off when people spout that the old system was better while omitting the rule of three.

Especially when they say this new system is worse on new players. New players in the old system had to buy 3 separate mechs, Basic them all, elite two of them, then master one of them, then they had to buy seismic sensor and radar deprivation then two weapon modules of their choice. For old time players the cost was actually lowered due to module swapping as your inventory grew, but it was extra harsh on new players.

Compared to this nice streamlined new system where you buy a single mech then skill it up and that's it.

Burke IV, on 09 January 2018 - 03:49 AM, said:

Its much worse than just a grind wall, try changing your loadout. Minimum 15 to 20 mins before you can get back in game and thats your new untested build. What kind of madness was it to introduce that to a game where customing your loadout is half the fun.

Took about the same time under the old system to swap your modules to represent your new weapon types, though costed as much as filling out an entire skill tree. You can also just set your skill tree up with non specific weapon skills so that you can run the same tree for every single loadout in the entire game without ever changing it again.

Edited by Dakota1000, 09 January 2018 - 03:53 AM.