104 replies to this topic

[Nameless King]

tker 669, on 21 January 2018 - 10:01 PM, said:

Having a mini drop deck to choose builds appropriate for a map would ruin quick play?

So you are actually saying that two teams ready and prepared for the conditions that they are about to face, would ruin quick play????

This tells me a lot. I am sure seeing two or three guys gimped on your team when you get Terra Therma (a map I actually love BTW) because they can't learn or don't know how to manage their lazor vomit build mixes up the hilarity for you.

For a lot of us though, anything that raises the derp factor is a bad thing and makes the game less enjoyable. I can see how some would argue about meta and how game play would be even stalererer than it already is. The answer to that is not with this diverse population and the combo xp bar. I know (looking at you Ccrider love ya brah!) tier one players who'd bring brawling Orions to polar.

So a mini drop deck that was perhaps limited to a chassis? Or even better if you were limited (as to not overwhelm matchmaker) to only having a loadout deck for the mech you're using with three or four builds for different conditions?

That would not ruin the game, that would be mudha fudgin' awesome sauce.

Two teams loaded and ready, off prepared properly for the conditions they face rather than having to be generalists. It would almost be like how the military works now say, when they are deployed to a jungle vs desert.

It would almost even add a touch of immersion being all ready and prepared knowing which planet and conditions and being ready for them.

Top it off it would promote team play. Hard to sync a team sometimes when you have 3 brawlers, 4 or 5 guys with ranged weapons, and the obligatory bracket build nonsense rest thrown in. Everyone being on the same page before the match however, you'd see much more natural teamwork. Teamwork I even see a lot of pugs in CW where you have drop decks and tailored builds option.

Yeah what you are saying is you hate the idea of being in sync and teamwork in quick play and you need the derp to have fun.

You're wrong. Drop decks or loadout choice in quick play would be the most banging awesomest thing ever. I now need to go have some alone time to relieve the reaction my body had just thinking about Quick Play Prepared (I should probably copyright that).

Nope that would be easy mode for people like me who have lots of mechs and cbills and it would mean new players having a horrible time.

Sorry that you feel that people should not learn to control there heat on any map.

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2018 - 10:11 PM, said:

No, situation is completely opposite: all maps are good for you, if you play Meta. Any map is good for Gauss/ER-LL/PPC vomit. Try playing something, that isn't Meta - something like AC+SRM.

I dont play meta on this account, I almost always play IS with AC and srms

[Nameless King]

MischiefSC, on 22 January 2018 - 01:10 AM, said:

Is apparently something you enjoy. Okay.

So?

Math is a thing. It doesn't change based on opinions or feelings.

It's the same reason that some people enjoy building good, functional mechs and some people like making something goofy and trollish.

Your argument is that everyone should play troll builds and like it.

If you have random maps all the time and just take whatever you want then your ability to perform in a match is largely random.

Your idea is that people who like brawl builds should be shafted about 60% of the time and at best break even 40% of the time while people who play mid to long range vomit builds are going to be good 100% of the time.

Bad idea is bad.

That is not my argument. Just about all my mechs are functional and most are brawling, I make them work on any map.

As with everything some builds will always be better for the masses.

[Water Bear]

King Alen, on 22 January 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

I dont play meta on this account, I almost always play IS with AC and srms

I don't get why people act like your match score is 0 when you aren't playing a carbon copy of a build found on metamechs. I have all sorts of "ridiculous" builds that I get (what I consider to be) pretty great scores in playing in QP.

I think people exaggerate and catastrophize too much on this forum. They make everything sound so extreme, when in reality the difference between a 100% optimized meta build and your favorite potatoe cannon is probably a 5% (or less) difference in your average performance after a hundred games. I mean who really cares.

I need variety to keep me interested in this game. Going 3 LPL + 3-6 ER M lasers on every build ever would quickly have me watching youtube vids instead of dropping in QP. Too boring.

Edited by Water Bear, 22 January 2018 - 09:56 AM.

[ANOM O MECH]

King Alen, on 22 January 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

Nope that would be easy mode for people like me who have lots of mechs and cbills and it would mean new players having a horrible time.

Sorry that you feel that people should not learn to control there heat on any map.



I dont play meta on this account, I almost always play IS with AC and srms

Managing heat is irrelevant.

Being better prepared, and in sync would promote teamwork naturally. You want chaos and crapfest matches to continue.

Oh and new player would learn just as they now learn to deal with heat...eventually sometimes, maybe.

You are absolutely wrong here and your thinking is absurd. Players like you wouldn't be meeting new players...do you think at all before you type?

So I am terribly sorry folks like you want this game to be as uncoordinated as possible.

[Nameless King]

tker 669, on 22 January 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

Managing heat is irrelevant.

Being better prepared, and in sync would promote teamwork naturally. You want chaos and crapfest matches to continue.

Oh and new player would learn just as they now learn to deal with heat...eventually sometimes, maybe.

You are absolutely wrong here and your thinking is absurd. Players like you wouldn't be meeting new players...do you think at all before you type?

So I am terribly sorry folks like you want this game to be as uncoordinated as possible.

Lol I know I wont be meeting new players, not all long time players with lots of mechs are tier 1, I know many who are tier 4-5.

New players would not have as many mechs so would not be able to trade out mechs to better suit the maps.

Again all you want is an easy mode where all variables are known.

Picking mechs after the map is just a horrible idea and very limiting

[SFC174]

Water Bear, on 22 January 2018 - 05:05 AM, said:

This is the failure of a critical assumption required to make democracy work:

The people will vote in their own best interests (they will vote for what's best for them).

It's not actually true, as it turns out. People are emotional and generally poorly educated; They have a penchant for voting against things that would be better for them.

I find your lack of faith most.....disturbing.

You assume that people don't know what's good for them, but such an assumption leads to the conclusion that someone else should decide for them. That someone else knows what is better for them. A dangerous assumption in every sense of the word.

Remember, democracy looks like a pretty crappy form of government (decision making in this case), until you compare it to anything else mankind has conceived.

So, let the people vote.....

[lazorbeamz]

1)I pick an mrm, ac onion.
2)people vote arctic highlands.
thank you very much

PS democracy is trash

[MischiefSC]

King Alen, on 22 January 2018 - 08:33 PM, said:

Lol I know I wont be meeting new players, not all long time players with lots of mechs are tier 1, I know many who are tier 4-5.

New players would not have as many mechs so would not be able to trade out mechs to better suit the maps.

Again all you want is an easy mode where all variables are known.

Picking mechs after the map is just a horrible idea and very limiting

How is it limiting? You're allowing people to pick mechs they would not otherwise intelligently pick.

You're attempting to limit intelligent choices and increase the impact of luck on match results. What person who prides themselves on improving skills wants to decrease the relevance of skill and increase the amount of random luck in match results?

I get that that's not your thing. That's cool. You do you. Why do you want to force people to only play a limited range of mechs or put themselves at a significant disadvantage most of the time? Skill has nothing to do with that. It's the opposite of skill, it's reducing skill in favor of random chance.

[Thorqemada]

SFC174, on 22 January 2018 - 09:58 PM, said:

I find your lack of faith most.....disturbing.

You assume that people don't know what's good for them, but such an assumption leads to the conclusion that someone else should decide for them. That someone else knows what is better for them. A dangerous assumption in every sense of the word.

Remember, democracy looks like a pretty crappy form of government (decision making in this case), until you compare it to anything else mankind has conceived.

So, let the people vote.....

People only know what is good/bad for them if you teach them the needed knowledge accordingly but People still act often emotional and not rational - Smoking for example is proven bad for humans and still People do smoke or illegal street racing etc.

As for having other People decide over the masses - that actually happens via Money Walth or Military Force and one is more concealled than the other with the similarity that both use heavy Propaganda/Agitation and false Information.

And it is not that bad as long you have the human rights and citizen rights etc. still intact - it is only bad in a rightless Tyranny or Anarchie.
Civilization needs sort of a rightful order to work and People mistake Democracy often for Anarchie.

Moral is often cited but Moral is in nature inexistant - it is a human Invention to control masses and keep social peace.

TLDR - Democracy doesnt work - like every other political System doesnt but who cares as long you have a good living - enjoy it for the time being!

Edited by Thorqemada, 23 January 2018 - 02:05 AM.

[SFC174]

lazorbeamz, on 23 January 2018 - 12:37 AM, said:

1)I pick an mrm, ac onion.
2)people vote arctic highlands.
thank you very much

PS democracy is trash

And yet it is far and away the best we have. The beauty of it is, if you don't like democracy in its various forms, you can go to places that don't use it. I hear Venezuela and North Korea are quite nice this time of year (or World of Tanks if you like).

Democracy only truly fails when you can't walk away from it.

[nehebkau]

Papaspud, on 20 January 2018 - 01:58 AM, said:

why?

all games played on same maps
make people run more diversified mechs

tired of playing same 2-3 maps over and over and over and over.

I wish they would put up 5 maps then have you down vote a map so the lowest 2 are thrown out and one of the remaining 3 are selected at "random".

same thing with game-mode.

Edited by nehebkau, 23 January 2018 - 07:25 AM.

[Water Bear]

SFC174, on 22 January 2018 - 09:58 PM, said:

I find your lack of faith most.....disturbing.

You assume that people don't know what's good for them, but such an assumption leads to the conclusion that someone else should decide for them. That someone else knows what is better for them. A dangerous assumption in every sense of the word.

Remember, democracy looks like a pretty crappy form of government (decision making in this case), until you compare it to anything else mankind has conceived.

So, let the people vote.....

We're getting far off topic here...I'm just observing that it is a true phenomenon of nature that people vote for things that are against their best interests. (Modern America is replete with examples).

I'm not suggesting any particular policy or change of action. It just appears (to me) to be a fact, whether it is convenient for me to believe or not.

It is relevant to the current discussion (and many discussions on this forum) because the player base is not necessarily good at deciding what's best for itself. For example if everyone agrees that "balance" is a good thing but then they ask for changes that no data or statistics support making.

Edited by Water Bear, 23 January 2018 - 08:14 AM.

[Ante Mortem]

Let's vote for not voting !

[Athom83]

Ante Mortem, on 09 February 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

Let's vote for not voting !

Wow... a year old necro.

[Bombast]

Athom83, on 09 February 2019 - 01:09 PM, said:

Wow... a year old necro.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I will add my vote to remove voting.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

I'd like random maps as well. Random modes, too.

[Variant1]

Voting needs to be removed, its terrible and makes boring builds played more often.

sycocys, on 20 January 2018 - 06:31 AM, said:

QP should just be skirmish on random maps.

One mode is all the majority of those players want anyhow, and at that point the map doesn't even matter.

Just put everything else into faction play, and match up drops for consecutive matches to make it more of a campaign.

It should be incursion only, incursion is fun and there bases/turrest to shoot at with destructable walls.

Vellron2005, on 20 January 2018 - 07:52 AM, said:

Instead of getting rid of map voting.. here's a new revolutionary idea..

Make.New.Maps!

No voting needs to go. I and other people have recomended plenty of times that pgi release a map maker tool for the community to help the map pool roster but pgi is too stuborn to do that.

FupDup, on 20 January 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

Voting is needed to bury the dumpster fire known as Escort. Bad modes don't deserve to be played.

Escort was a good mode, forced people to get out of their comfort zone and was a mode that relied on completing the objective.

TLBFestus, on 20 January 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

Some time ago, the community twitched and moaned about random maps. It was said back then that we wanted some input into the type of map so we weren't stuck in a loadout that didn't compliment the map that RNG Jesus gave us.

So PGI introduced map voting, and it was tweaked until we got what you see today.

Now, everyone is sick and tired of it and are making noise about going back to the old method. It's a classic "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence " scenario. If they go back to random maps, the complaints will just start up on the other side of the fence again and what we have now will be remembered fondly.

It's that or keeping the existing system is PGIs way of flipping everyone "the Bird" for questioning their choices. Personally I like the thought of it being "the bird" but the reality is we will complain either way so why bother changing it.

Nobody wanted votin except a few whiners that whined about getting terra 3 times when we all know that was bs. The community just needs to keep random maps/modes once pgi brings it back by telling the vocals on why voting is bad.

MischiefSC, on 20 January 2018 - 04:24 PM, said:

Yes, because the only mechs that should be viable are generalists durable for all situations.

If there's one thing this game needs it's fewer viable mechs in play.

What generalist builds? it was only long range snipe poke meta back then and still is today, especialy with alpha strike warrior made worse with hyper quirks and select your own quirk tree. Random maps/modes will kill those long range meta build because now theres an actual chance that a loadout might be sub optimal. There is even less build diversity thanks to map voting and quirks/quirk tree

Hazeclaw, on 20 January 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

Only if we could select our mech/loadout after we know what map it is, then I'm for randomized maps

otherwise I think the voting system is better

Heck no, then everyone would simply pick the best loadout for the map and it would be boring and predictable. Adapting to the sitution and improvising is what creates a good experience.

Water Bear, on 22 January 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

I don't get why people act like your match score is 0 when you aren't playing a carbon copy of a build found on metamechs. I have all sorts of "ridiculous" builds that I get (what I consider to be) pretty great scores in playing in QP.

I think people exaggerate and catastrophize too much on this forum. They make everything sound so extreme, when in reality the difference between a 100% optimized meta build and your favorite potatoe cannon is probably a 5% (or less) difference in your average performance after a hundred games. I mean who really cares.

I need variety to keep me interested in this game. Going 3 LPL + 3-6 ER M lasers on every build ever would quickly have me watching youtube vids instead of dropping in QP. Too boring.

exactly this! the whole point of the mechlab is to build your own loadout thats fun. When everyone picks the meta build just because its the most used kills variety in this game and makes it painfully predictable and the skill tree/quirks makes things worse by further compounding the problem.

Edited by Variant1, 10 February 2019 - 05:07 PM.

[Kroete]

MischiefSC, on 21 January 2018 - 04:27 PM, said:

So you have fun by having what mech you're playing shafted by absolute random the majority of the time and by requiring anyone who does enjoy winning more on skill than luck have to only choose a very limited range of mechs.

Yeah, I'm betting you can still manage to have fun without shafting a bunch of other players.

We still need a "casual" tickbox,
then some can have different random maps and build mechs useable on all of them,
and others can have their one map where they can play their current metamech build for that one map.

Win/win and double this by dividing the unworthys from the real players too.

Edit:
If they are so skilled,
why cant they manage their heat or build a mech that works on every map?

Edited by Kroete, 11 February 2019 - 04:03 AM.

[K O Z A K]

Sure, picking mechs for map is boring and predictable. Why would you want to use the correct tool for the job. That way 5 times more mechs would be effective, but forcing players into generalist setups, that's not boring and predictable. Good experience is subjective, some people would rather sit behind a hill on terra waiting for their clan vomit to cool off, others would rather bring a gauss whammer to get the most out of the loadout/map experience. Thankfully there's FP where I can enjoy a wide variety of mechs