467 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

You can't adjust who shows up in what match. You'd need a population thicker than QP has to be able to do that effectively.

What you can do is adjust rewards. So you get a payout based on who you beat; if you're an amazing 12man team you get very little payout for rolling over a bunch of newbies. The newbies however get a big payout just for getting 20 kills, even on a loss. It's probable that the 12man will just knock out objectives and move on. They would get a bigger payout if they dropped with 8 and carried some puggles; the puggles they pick up would get a bigger payout, the 8man gets a bigger payout, the teams they play get a bigger payout.

You just want to ensure there's big rewards in place for pugging and still winning. Dramatically reduce payout for damage and even kills and dramatically increase the reward for winning. Then skew that all up a lot when there's a huge skill mismatch between teams so the lower skilled team gets a huge payout just for doing well against the higher skilled team.

That would reward people for teamwork and playing as a team. It would reward organized teams for helping coordinate the pugs.

Then remove the scaling recruitment costs and desertion penalties.

[Knight Captain Morgan]

MischiefSC, on 13 February 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

You can't adjust who shows up in what match. You'd need a population thicker than QP has to be able to do that effectively.

What you can do is adjust rewards. So you get a payout based on who you beat; if you're an amazing 12man team you get very little payout for rolling over a bunch of newbies. The newbies however get a big payout just for getting 20 kills, even on a loss. It's probable that the 12man will just knock out objectives and move on. They would get a bigger payout if they dropped with 8 and carried some puggles; the puggles they pick up would get a bigger payout, the 8man gets a bigger payout, the teams they play get a bigger payout.

You just want to ensure there's big rewards in place for pugging and still winning. Dramatically reduce payout for damage and even kills and dramatically increase the reward for winning. Then skew that all up a lot when there's a huge skill mismatch between teams so the lower skilled team gets a huge payout just for doing well against the higher skilled team.

That would reward people for teamwork and playing as a team. It would reward organized teams for helping coordinate the pugs.

Then remove the scaling recruitment costs and desertion penalties.

I really like this idea. I also like the idea of friendly AI reinforcements whenever 12man premade vs puggles. The number, weight class, and difficulty level of AI could be determined by average tier differential of pilots.

Or at least arm the drop ships so they rain down severe punishment on anyone camping the respawn points.

[SeventhSL]

Yondu the Ravager, on 13 February 2018 - 06:23 AM, said:

As much as I like the idea of 'ranked matchmaking', with the current FP population it could be really hard for that to happen. Similar ideas like having group queue and solo queue have been brought up too but the same problem is the lack of players. Only during the weekends can I expect a sub-5min wait time for FP. On off-peak time periods waiting times can be upwards of 1 hour which substantiates the case of not having enough players. PGI needs to bribe players into playing more FP instead of QP with event rewards, only then can the idea of a ranked system or split queues be viable.

Yer... not ranked match making. As you said it is a bad idea to split the bucket and history has proven this. The only match making I'd suggest is placing premade vs premade or PUG vs PUG before PUG vs Premade, if multiply teams were in queue.

[naterist]

or input a single que system that seeks to put groups and pugs together more often then naught, and improve unit making and recruiting mechanics

[Nothar]

I know from experience the drama real life throws at you when your partner or mother walks in on your mech porn. Playing with your mech. Its a hard life but we walk this walk.

[Willard Phule]

Andres Gomez, on 13 February 2018 - 01:58 PM, said:

I really like this idea. I also like the idea of friendly AI reinforcements whenever 12man premade vs puggles. The number, weight class, and difficulty level of AI could be determined by average tier differential of pilots.

Or at least arm the drop ships so they rain down severe punishment on anyone camping the respawn points.

And you somehow think that the guys that can't program a simple matchmaker are somehow going to make AI happen. Nice.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

One side:Many new Players will not learning ...will only fast Experience and kills and easy games with no tactical Awarness and teamplay for Win ...to many Trolls and little Narcists ..not work for a game ...thats better go in Singleplayer games with stupid AI and than all the Gamepad Pu**ys to bad for aim and shoot in Dynamic Fights or learn Weapon Ranges ..thats like the Battlefield 2 players tahst in kharkand rush like Lemmings from the US base in the Mainstreet and supporter Firewall and never try other Routes or use here Brain.

we have the generation Brainless und natural Selection Zombies like the Smartphones lemmings thats run in cars with the phone fore heres Eyes

Other Side: no really Tutorial ...teh Academy is a Joke ...not really good AI or Test Missions ,and the most new Players ignored it and play MWO like other FPS ...learn by pain

Social system is only Poor
UI is really poor ..minimap is very useless with nothing tactical Informations to terrain

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 14 February 2018 - 02:05 AM.

[Yondu Udonta]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 14 February 2018 - 01:40 AM, said:

we have the generation Brainless und natural Selection Zombies like the Smartphones lemmings thats run in cars with the phone fore heres Eyes

I kinda understand what you are trying to say, but there are quite a few young players who are really good at this game. Labeling them under a collective term 'brainless' is really stereotypical.

[Pain G0D]

Can we truly answer this since we as new players once never quit ?

This is a game broken down allows to beat up other players in 3 modes and collect mechs and mech customizing options and thats about it .

Its not exactly Skyrim if we must be honest . <the offline orginal game >

[Knight Captain Morgan]

Willard Phule, on 13 February 2018 - 11:12 PM, said:

And you somehow think that the guys that can't program a simple matchmaker are somehow going to make AI happen. Nice.

If they get it working for mechwarrior 5: mercenaries, then I don’t see why not

[Xannatharr]

Andres Gomez, on 14 February 2018 - 07:14 AM, said:

If they get it working for mechwarrior 5: mercenaries, then I don’t see why not

We're all holding out hope that they will somehow get that game "right" and then either port Faction Play over into it or offer multiplayer in MW5.

::fingers crossed::

[Cataphractos]

Actual new player here, actually considering quitting the game. My input?

First, it's 2018. There's not a lot I can do to either help or hurt the majority of players, who have all been grinding for four or five years straight.

Second, the game crashes about every other time it loads a battle...including Academy training. My computer isn't state-of-the-art, but it's certainly good enough to run MWO at the minimum settings. And yet here I am, scrambling to open the portal* and log back in before the timer runs out.

Third, while I know what the various weapons and instruments do in the table-top lore -- I'm a bit of a lore nerd myself; I think my first couple of posts on this forum concern a Marik-themed MechCommander 2 campaign I was fooling around with -- I have no idea how they play in this game. Are the 14 shots from a double-binned AC-20 sufficient for a quick-play game, or should I invest in an AC-10? I didn't know; I had to buy them and see. (It turns out that with my aim...yes, I do need more than 14 shots. ) On my Raven -- my admission that I can't hit anything at less than 100 meters so I should be supporting the players who can -- is the NARC or the TAG a more effective use of C-Bills? (I still can't tell.)

* ELIPHAS!

Edited by Cataphractos, 14 February 2018 - 02:28 PM.

[Grus]

my guess is they get the biggest trial mech they can find first time out and, with the thought line of "im the biggest swinging **** here muhaha! IM INVINCIBLE!" and then someone that's been playing for a bit comes up behind them with a light mech, drops a arty on them, removes all back armor, and then proceeds to touch them in their no no spot. Said new player is now viewing the death screen sitting there like..

Edited by Grus, 14 February 2018 - 02:38 PM.

[naterist]

Cataphractos, on 14 February 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

Actual new player here, actually considering quitting the game. My input?

First, it's 2018. There's not a lot I can do to either help or hurt the majority of players, who have all been grinding for four or five years straight.

Second, the game crashes about every other time it loads a battle...including Academy training. My computer isn't state-of-the-art, but it's certainly good enough to run MWO at the minimum settings. And yet here I am, scrambling to open the portal* and log back in before the timer runs out.

Third, while I know what the various weapons and instruments do in the table-top lore -- I'm a bit of a lore nerd myself; I think my first couple of posts on this forum concern a Marik-themed MechCommander 2 campaign I was fooling around with -- I have no idea how they play in this game. Are the 14 shots from a double-binned AC-20 sufficient for a quick-play game, or should I invest in an AC-10? I didn't know; I had to buy them and see. (It turns out that with my aim...yes, I do need more than 14 shots. ) On my Raven -- my admission that I can't hit anything at less than 100 meters so I should be supporting the players who can -- is the NARC or the TAG a more effective use of C-Bills? (I still can't tell.)

* ELIPHAS!

ok bro, i got you. heres what you need to do. first off, if your computer is constantly crashing, you need to double check that hardware, or accept constant crashes. this game is rough on even really good computers.

second, you need to hop in to the academy and do all of the things that it has to offer.

thirdly, you should get that ac10, and also throw on a couple lasers so you can shoot after running out of ammo, and just practice practice practice. eventually you will get there my friend. 2 tons for an ac20 is rather low as well, so dont freak out on that point.

lastly, you should get teamspeak, go to either strana mechty, the frrhub, or comstar hub, and start playing with other people. when they discuss builds, tactics, and little tips and tricks, you should take notes.

after you do all that, then decide how to proceed. expect legit 2-3 months of consistent work before you are even decent. it will be a long, hard road, but it will be quite rewarding in the end. dont give in to the idea that you can just narq or tag, work other skills. if you end up giving in to the temptation of just boating lrms, then this process will take longer. the process of gaining knowledge may be expidited by watching youtube guides, i reccomend snugglestime, moltenmetal, or kanajashi as youtubers with good info out there.

[DarkFhoenix]

Cataphractos, on 14 February 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

Actual new player here, actually considering quitting the game. My input?

First, it's 2018. There's not a lot I can do to either help or hurt the majority of players, who have all been grinding for four or five years straight.

Second, the game crashes about every other time it loads a battle...including Academy training. My computer isn't state-of-the-art, but it's certainly good enough to run MWO at the minimum settings. And yet here I am, scrambling to open the portal* and log back in before the timer runs out.

Third, while I know what the various weapons and instruments do in the table-top lore -- I'm a bit of a lore nerd myself; I think my first couple of posts on this forum concern a Marik-themed MechCommander 2 campaign I was fooling around with -- I have no idea how they play in this game. Are the 14 shots from a double-binned AC-20 sufficient for a quick-play game, or should I invest in an AC-10? I didn't know; I had to buy them and see. (It turns out that with my aim...yes, I do need more than 14 shots. ) On my Raven -- my admission that I can't hit anything at less than 100 meters so I should be supporting the players who can -- is the NARC or the TAG a more effective use of C-Bills? (I still can't tell.)

* ELIPHAS!

First : Ummm what kind of a wierd reason is that ?

Second : I think you need better hardware bro .

Third : That comes with time and practice And messing with your mech in the lab.

[MischiefSC]

Cataphractos, on 14 February 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

Actual new player here, actually considering quitting the game. My input?

First, it's 2018. There's not a lot I can do to either help or hurt the majority of players, who have all been grinding for four or five years straight.

Second, the game crashes about every other time it loads a battle...including Academy training. My computer isn't state-of-the-art, but it's certainly good enough to run MWO at the minimum settings. And yet here I am, scrambling to open the portal* and log back in before the timer runs out.

Third, while I know what the various weapons and instruments do in the table-top lore -- I'm a bit of a lore nerd myself; I think my first couple of posts on this forum concern a Marik-themed MechCommander 2 campaign I was fooling around with -- I have no idea how they play in this game. Are the 14 shots from a double-binned AC-20 sufficient for a quick-play game, or should I invest in an AC-10? I didn't know; I had to buy them and see. (It turns out that with my aim...yes, I do need more than 14 shots. ) On my Raven -- my admission that I can't hit anything at less than 100 meters so I should be supporting the players who can -- is the NARC or the TAG a more effective use of C-Bills? (I still can't tell.)

* ELIPHAS!

Going to be brutally honest -

You shouldn't be in FW save as part of a premade who's helping teach you the game. Think of it as end-game content in that way.

Next, as a dedicated lore nerd myself I can say that the balance used in a tabletop strategy game (which was badly balanced to begin with; we all played with house rules about who could bring what) I can say that tabletop balance and mechanics don't translate to a team based FPS. In tabletop the real premium was accuracy; skewing the odds of a hit in your favor whenever you can. In MWO accuracy is player driven and we have instant convergence. I have mechs with 70-80pt alphas I can put in a single location on your mech at 500m. That changes everything.

Sounds like part of your issue is setup. Use a mouse if you're not already, turn all the mouse settings in game to 0 and let your hardware control mouse sensitivity. That has a huge impact on accuracy.

The other part about crashing; I have teammates who play on laptops that barely fit into the minimum specs and they don't crash all the time. Something else is going on. I strongly recommend playing it through Steam and use the Steam portal and launcher, it's a lot more stable.

As a given rule all ballistics but AC10 need 3 tons of ammo per gun. AC10 carries a lot of ammo per gun and gets away with 2, plus the ammo nodes in the firepower tree.

NARC and TAG are a bad idea. LRMs themselves are a terrible weapon; they are useful only relative to the skill of the opponent not the person using them. Good players can negate the effectiveness of LRMs almost completely. What mechs do you currently own? Having a solid performing build is a night and day experience in the game and creates a foundation you can learn from and find your own groove; trying to just 'wing it' is a miserable and frustrating experience.

[Cataphractos]

I'm seeing a lot of suggestions that I need better hardware. That's not the point. This is a game from 2012 -- you know, back when everybody was hyped about Mayans and some guy in Joker cos-play was shooting up theaters? -- with all the game settings dialed back to their minimum values. It's running on a computer built in 2015, which more than meets the stated spec requirements. And it's still crashing. That's the fault of the software engineers, not the players.

This is bad for player retention. I, for one, am not about to go through all the hassle and expense of upgrading my computer, or possibly buying a whole new computer, just for the sake of an F2P game which -- once my current temp-work dry spell ends -- I probably won't even be playing every day. My nostalgia just ain't that strong. It won't be that strong for most players. And that's going to cut back on the number of new players who stick around.

[Cataphractos]

DarkFhoenix, on 14 February 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

First : Ummm what kind of a wierd reason is that ?

No matter how much grinding I put in, I'm never going to be the equal of somebody who's several hundred games ahead of me. And that's the majority of the players. So there's nothing I can do to defeat my enemies; there's nothing I can do to turn the tide for my teammates. All I can do is skulk around in the back and hope the rest of the team wins regardless of my presence, or run out in front and get killed in under two minutes.

Under those circumstances, why should new players bother?

[Cataphractos]

Thanks to Naterist and MischiefLC. Like I said, I'm definitely going for AC-10s, and I believe I'll follow your NARC/TAG advice. I'm not getting much use from either of them anyway. I suppose I fill the Raven's missile slot with some kind of SRM then? (Since LRMs are apparently worthless in this game, and I can't hit jack at long range anyway.)

Which brings me to a new, fourth problem: the skill tree. There is, of course, no in-game tutorial or guidance for the skill tree, and for some incomprehensible reason it uses three different kinds of experience: XP, GXP, and SP. Which means that not only are new players going to make mistakes, throwing precious experience into non-optimal builds...they're also not going to realize that hitting the reset button is worthless, because you're not getting that experience back.

And a fifth problem: if you remove the Raven's BAP for some reason, possibly because you're a new player who wants to try things out and/or doesn't know what they're doing...it won't let you put the BAP back in. Not even if you strip out all the other equipment to try and make room! WHICH WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF BUYING THE RAVEN.

So to answer your question, MischiefLC: I have a Hunchback 4-G with AC-10 and regular AMS. And I used to have a Raven 3-L with TAG, NARC, and two Medium Lasers...but then I fouled it all up, so I stripped it down and sold it away. Now I've got to wait until I have the C-Bills to buy another Raven and start all over again. I'm pretty sure I fouled up the Hunchback too, but I'm not even worried about that one right now.

[Jon Gotham]

I think we can break it down i the end. It's the TYPE of player this game attracts.
From what I've witnessed over the years:
People don't want to talk (why use TS?????)
People don't want to group ( WHY should i group-I don't have time.inclination/mic/whatever vacuous reason)
People don't want to learn ( I don't want to read, I want to just play/I play for fun)
Quick fix fun (just want to shootzorz)

I also play WOT on occasion, that game's learning curve us far sharper if you want to actually be good at it. Going to outside sites to learn i.e tanksgg is expected and not railed at-it's normal...like anything you do in life. You learn.
The hatred at groups is next to non existent compared to mwo. People understand teamwork is a good thing and isn't "unfair."
Random people group most games-because they understand teamwork is good.....

It's really down to the attitude of who comes here. FW puggies are at odds with logic, all the whining and railing at how "unfair" it is....in wot people join groups and clans-it's expected and normal. No drama or crying about it. So why are mwo players so different?
A lot of the time I see "I quit" posts say is xyz is "unfair" and said person has done ZERO to solve the issues which almost always are on their side.

You can make excellent tutorials and academies etc, you can improve the social tools but if people just refuse to engage then your hands are tied. What PGI needs to look at is how to attract different types of people to the game, we need the type that actively wants to engage and get involved.