175 replies to this topic

[B0oN]

Who cares, remind me again real quick ...

[Veggio Sama]

Do Clan pilots really identify with their in-universe counterparts so much that they're incapable of comprehending that successful FP play is about more than who has the biggest W/L K/D manhood-proxy? And if you really must know, the reason I'm not on the leaderboards is that I never PUG drop faction unless I'm 2/3s into a handle of bourbon and filled with self-loathing. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the best pilot around, not by a long shot. But I've been around long enough to see games (and Unit-members) lost over rogue pilots going off to farm kills and damage to pad stats instead of playing the objectives, which are there for a reason, and failing to listen to and co-operate with lance members.

Deflect all you want, but as I said, gen-rushing is as valid and skill-intensive as any other strategy. It's not the other side's fault if you can't adapt and insist on demanding HONURABURR DUELS when they have absolutely no sound tactical reason to engage in it. This applies whether you run Clan or IS tech. This could just as easily be a thread about IS complaining about smoke-divers in scouting, and I'd be saying the same thing.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Veggio Sama, on 06 February 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

gen-rushing is skill-intensive

[justcallme A S H]

denAirwalkerrr, on 06 February 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

Like defending actually prevents from yoloing into gens without fighting back like I described here.

Nah he is just referring to a game yesterday on Vitric where they gen rushed us and half the team didn't do what they were told and left the gens open. It happens sometimes.

I mean we slapped them senseless the game before even after they tried to base rush 4 waves in a row on Incursion, because that was a game that actually involved aiming. So you can understand they were probably a little mad and think they did a supreme job by PvE'ing the next

But it is exactly as you say den... Teams will never get better at aiming if they don't actually try to aim and just zerg rush in one by one (which is the worst way to Brawl push, yet they still do it game after game).

Edited by justcallme A S H, 06 February 2018 - 01:54 PM.

[Kubernetes]

Veggio Sama, on 06 February 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

stuff

I don't think you've played enough FP nor at a high enough level to make meaningful observations about the game. These two guys you're arguing against are some of the deadliest face-melters in the game. Their stats aren't made up and their wins aren't flukes. Maybe you should listen to them.

[Veggio Sama]

denAirwalkerrr, on 06 February 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

A well executed one is. The difference between a poorly co-ordinated gen-rush, which others have rightly pointed out is easily countered, and a competent one is the difference between a thousand conscripts armed with stripper clips charging a wall of MG 42s at Stalingrad and properly co-ordinated Deep Battle using massed formations or PLA-style Short Attack. Fire discipline is a skill. Staying grouped in a lance-rush instead of squirreling after defenders is a skill. Knowing when to turn and fight to buy time for lance-mates to focus objectives is a skill. Calling and focusing down gen-blockers is a skill. Maintaining good formation to maximise firepower delivered to defenders on approach is a skill. Rolling damage and sharing armour to increase survivability are both skills that will determine whether a gen-rush is successful or not. Buildings 'mechs with a good balance of firepower, armour, and mobility that are capable of pulling off a gen-push with a reasonable expectation of success is a skill. Being able to read the battle and know when it is better to avoid defender strong points and go straight for gens or to annihilate the defenders and then push through is a skill, though granted this falls more on shot-callers than on line-pilots. I've seen rushes succeed or fail based on a team's and individual pilots' ability to exercise them.

If you really want we could even distinguish between a blind charge and a gen-push that is co-ordinated at a level more refined than "run at Omega". However, most of the complaints in this thread against gen-pushes are effectively complaints that people can't figure out how to counter getting butt-stroked to death with a rusty unloaded Mosin by the one in one thousand conscripts that got through.

Edited by Veggio Sama, 06 February 2018 - 02:37 PM.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Oh man so hard to keep holding W and clicking left mouse button facing stationary target. Oh wait enemy mechs shooting you? Ignore those plebs, they won’t be able to kill 48 mechs pressing W. Oh wait it’s actually a good team? Better go on forum and write that gen-rush is a viable and skill dependent strategy. Mission complete!

[K O Z A K]

denAirwalkerrr, on 06 February 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

gen-rushing is skill-intensive

this has to become a meme

Edited by Hazeclaw, 06 February 2018 - 02:56 PM.

[Veggio Sama]

denAirwalkerrr, on 06 February 2018 - 02:42 PM, said:

Oh man so hard to keep holding W and clicking left mouse button facing stationary target. Oh wait enemy mechs shooting you? Ignore those plebs, they won’t be able to kill 48 mechs pressing W. Oh wait it’s actually a good team? Better go on forum and write that gen-rush is a viable and skill dependent strategy. Mission complete!

You seem upset. Given how most of our gen pushes go, the typical Clan team can't even manage to kill half that number. If it isn't viable, why are you losing to it, and if it isn't skill dependent, what does that say about pilots that can't formulate a response to it? How come when I play with a unit we are able to gen-rush one game, and then stop a gen-rush cold the next?

[Kubernetes]

And if you’ve ever wondered why FP spuds are so terrible, look in this thread. Tier 5 skills with a Tier 1 ego.

[Veggio Sama]

BTW, I play with throttle decay off, so on a push I'm not even holding down W. It's pretty good for being able to control movement speed for better maneuverability and formation cohesion.

[K O Z A K]

Veggio Sama, on 06 February 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

You seem upset. Given how most of our gen pushes go, the typical Clan team can't even manage to kill half that number. If it isn't viable, why are you losing to it, and if it isn't skill dependent, what does that say about pilots that can't formulate a response to it? How come when I play with a unit we are able to gen-rush one game, and then stop a gen-rush cold the next?

Because you're playing against even less competent players? congratulations, have a cookie or something

Stop trying to turn this into a IS vs Clan thing. Objective rushing requires little skill, which is why it's generally a tactic used when a team believes they can't outfight the enemy. Unfortunately it does very little to progress you as a player, you don't learn proper positioning, you don't learn gunnery, you don't learn to how actually beat your opponents in a fight, which puts you at a serious disadvantage when you're not playing incursion/siege if all you've been learning is CHAAAARGE and shoot buildings. That's what the strong players here are trying to explain, they want others to learn how to become better mechwarriors so we have better matches.

[Huitzilihuitl]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 05 February 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

Drop caller for 12 man units need to stop because you are doing your teams a great disservice.

Ignore this person's advice, they don't make the rules.

[C H E E K I E Z]

[Pat Kell]

Sorry guys, while I absolutely despise gen rushes, if we are down after wave 1 or 2 significantly and the only way I can see to get a victory is to gen rush, I will call it 100% of the time and not lose an ounce of sleep over it.

I think what people are missing here is that all these "good" players think that they should be able to line up in easily defendable positions and have an equal number of enemy pilots charge at them or poke and trade with them in an effort to show who has the higher level of gunnery skills on the team. That is just silly. While I will charge that line most of the time, if it fails and I can't see a way of dislodging them, I will use the threat of a base rush to dislodge them in an effort to make the fight a little more equal or just get a win and teach them that sitting at long range and not protecting the objective causes losses.. This game isn't just about your ability to move your mouse onto a picture on your screen and click a button, it's about being able to monitor the intent of your enemy, protect your base, deal damage, effectively receive damage, work as a team by supporting them or even taking hits for them. And that's just barely scratching the surface.

While I hate gen rushing, I will absolutely do it if the enemy leaves it wide open and lines up in a place that would be suicide for us to charge. Making that decision doesn't make a team a bad team, it makes them an adaptable team, able to more effectively deal with a wide variety of situations. KCom has long been known as the team that will find the enemy, group up and charge them wherever they may be. It took longer than I expected but eventually teams started bringing long range decks against us and moving to areas that they could effectively use those weapons. This was a good strategy and it earned some teams victories against us. A bad team would of kept doing the same thing and not learning the reason for the losses. We tried to adapt. We have started bringing some longer range decks sometimes and we have kept the option open to gen rush if charging the enemy is a losing proposition. Most of us are not good at the range game and we have really no desire to fight that kind of match as we find it boring and frustrating all at the same time. If you won't let us shoot you in the face because you sit at long range and are constantly re-positioning away from us, we will shoot the gens in the face. If you don't want to lose, come stop us.

If people really truly want to get better at this game, they need to understand that it's about more than just being able to shoot someone's CT at 1500 meters. I've seen people do 3 and 4k damage while effectively shooting people at 800+ meters and still lose the game, both to gen rushes and straight up attrition. I can't tell you how unimpressed I am when I see people do that much damage and still lose. I know what it takes to get that kind of damage and I have gotten that much damage before and lost. It wasn't because "my pugs sucked", it was because none of us worked as a team and I was the most skilled at using "my pugs" as meat shields. Work together with your team, help them all survive longer and your matches will go much better. You may not do 3K+ damage every match but your pugs will do better because you have learned how to properly support your team.

End of rant, sorry so long

[Yondu Udonta]

Goddamn I'm getting cancer from reading some of the comments here.

Let's just face it, gen-rushing will continue to happen even with the amount of hate it gets on this thread and many others in the FP section because everyone likes to win. I myself dislike gen-rushing too. But I'll accept that it is part of the mode and try to deter gen-rushers from a victory by advising my team to bodyblock gens or meeting the enemy at the gates whenever I am on defense. For people who have dropped with me in siege attack, you would know that I almost always suggest out-trading the opponent unless the opponent is a very strong premade or the kill deficit is too great to overcome. Gen-rushing is a SKILLLESS tactic, but sometimes weaker teams need to gen-rush to get a win and I understand that.

[PocketYoda]

Easy Fixed stop the gens from being target-able until all 12x4 enemy mechs are dead...

[Yondu Udonta]

Samial, on 06 February 2018 - 08:49 PM, said:

Easy Fixed stop the gens from being target-able until all 12x4 enemy mechs are dead...

Never seen you in FP before, you probably don't know jack **** about how imbalanced matchmaking can be. I'm sure a team full of puggers can take out a highly skilled premade team on defense. Objectives are there as an alternate way for victory. Now gtfo of this thread with ignorance of your level lmao.

[r4zen]

Veggio Sama, on 06 February 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

(...)is the difference between a thousand conscripts armed with stripper clips charging a wall of MG 42s at Stalingrad and properly co-ordinated Deep Battle using massed formations or PLA-style Short Attack.

this guy history channels (RIP History channel) (long live American Pickers)

too bad he doesn't mechwarrior

#wrekt

Kubernetes, on 06 February 2018 - 03:35 PM, said:

And if you’ve ever wondered why FP spuds are so terrible, look in this thread. Tier 5 skills with a Tier 1 ego.

I am Tier 2 Skillz With Tier -100 Ego

Huitzilihuitl, on 06 February 2018 - 03:53 PM, said:

Ignore this person's advice, they don't make the rules.

1v1 me to make the rules bro

[Lyons De Flamand]

denAirwalkerrr, on 06 February 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

I understood your point but we're speaking about situation when your team actually defends and still gets this crap instead of an interesting game. Over and over and over again.

Well if they brought something that could actually defend a line instead of all the ERPPC's in the world scrambling to position themselves behind their teammates, it would make it harder.

Not a jab at anyone personally, it's just an observation from the FP games we play.