61 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Specifically talking about the dual Gauss single ER PPC Build.

It seems to me, that if you build it up with 15 DHS, maximize your heat gen nodes and the heat nodes in the ops tree, and bring double coolshots, the ghost heat really doesn't slow it down much, especially because in death ball situations you can get away with firing the single PPC separately since targets are close and you aren't doing a long range trade that needs the precision.

That also leads me to believe that it wouldn't magically become the best heavy if it shook the ghost heat.

Just some musings after taking it out for a few matches last night..

[InvictusLee]

No its just a slow mech.

[Nema Nabojiv]

I'd say its sluggishness, and removing ghostheat wont make it any better.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

The whole engine desync happening and then mobility nerfs making it have the agility of a Dire Wolf made it sorta useless. Why bring a 75 ton mech as agile as a 100 ton mech when the 100 ton mech has more firepower and armor to go with it?

[Trenchbird]

A crap mech being ignored because it's crap is not unusual.

[Gas Guzzler]

Catten Hart, on 08 February 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

A crap mech being ignored because it's crap is not unusual.

Not sure I get what you mean?

[Trenchbird]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 February 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

Not sure I get what you mean?

I'm saying the Night Gyr's always been garbage. Ghost Heat and desync were just nails in the coffin on what was otherwise, a poor mech with one or two useful gimmicks.

(Frankly, I never understood why it was so heavily touted beyond sniping. That was the only thing it was good at, as other things LRM better, brawl better, DPS better, etc. etc.)

Edited by Catten Hart, 08 February 2018 - 04:49 PM.

[cougurt]

i'm amazed that people really think it's that bad. i haven't tried it with PPC gauss since the ghost heat nerf, but dual gauss and lasers is still very good.

Catten Hart, on 08 February 2018 - 04:47 PM, said:

I'm saying the Night Gyr's always been garbage. Ghost Heat and desync were just nails in the coffin on what was otherwise, a poor mech with one or two useful gimmicks.

you're the wrongest anyone has ever been.

[Gas Guzzler]

cougurt, on 08 February 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

i'm amazed that people really think it's that bad. i haven't tried it with PPC gauss since the ghost heat nerf, but dual gauss and lasers is still very good..

Eh its not that good. You can do a better dual gauss with lasers build on a Mad Cat Mk. II and be just as agile.

Its just too sluggish. It could have its agility unnerfed a bit,

[Bohxim]

I used it a lot previously because its the only heavy that lets me bring dakka combinations like 2 uac10 1 uac5, 1 uac10 3 uac5 or 6 Uac2 on a 75 tonne chassis. In group play, where tonnage is an issue, we have to fit accordingly. In more dire situations I'll even run the hbkiic for 3 uac5

[Gas Guzzler]

The other thing you could try for poptarting is the 2 ER PPC 2 UAC5 build. Sort of works.

[Funky Bacon]

it's weird that a mech with high mounts and high cockpit and good tonnage for weapons is rated so badly. =S

[Gas Guzzler]

Funky Bacon, on 08 February 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

it's weird that a mech with high mounts and high cockpit and good tonnage for weapons is rated so badly. =S

Its the agility.

[cougurt]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 February 2018 - 04:52 PM, said:

Eh its not that good. You can do a better dual gauss with lasers build on a Mad Cat Mk. II and be just as agile.

Its just too sluggish. It could have its agility unnerfed a bit,

well yeah, but the mad cat is also 15 tons heavier. the night gyr also has the ability to poptart which is something i don't think any assault is really capable of.

that said, i still wouldn't mind a bit of an agility buff.

Edited by cougurt, 08 February 2018 - 04:57 PM.

[Trenchbird]

cougurt, on 08 February 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

i'm amazed that people really think it's that bad. i haven't tried it with PPC gauss since the ghost heat nerf, but dual gauss and lasers is still very good.


you're the wrongest anyone has ever been.

That's a great opinion. Care to tell me how your Night Gyr brawlers are doing compared to an Orion IIC-A? Or your Night Gyr LRM boats compared to an SNV-A? Or your Night Gyr DPS builds compared to... Okay, maybe I was a bit harsh on NTG dakkaboats. They have some good qualities, even if they can't outdo some of the other good-but-rare DPS machines. Or have you never run anything aside from the Meta Gyr?

I literally said snipers was what they were always good at, but not much else. And slow-moving sluggish snipers, in a game that tends to have high mobility becoming a major factor in either earlygame or lategame? Never bode well.

Saw a lot of overconfident "Hurr durr NTG meta" tryhards (Presumably like you, if you're so quick to say I'm an idiot for saying that they sucked outside of two niche roles) get steamrolled by various things that they couldn't move fast enough to avoid, and were not durable enough to survive, either.

Edited by Catten Hart, 08 February 2018 - 04:58 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

-62 pts of heat on 15 DHS is just too hot to poptart with.....

It's sad because I like that loadout.

[Nema Nabojiv]

cougurt, on 08 February 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

i'm amazed that people really think it's that bad. i haven't tried it with PPC gauss since the ghost heat nerf, but dual gauss and lasers is still very good.

True, they are. But you can take madcat and have more dakka and more armor, so what's the point.

[cougurt]

Catten Hart, on 08 February 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

That's a great opinion. Care to tell me how your Night Gyr brawlers are doing compared to an Orion IIC-A? Or your Night Gyr LRM boats compared to an SNV-A? Or your Night Gyr DPS builds compared to... Okay, maybe I was a bit harsh on NTG dakkaboats. They have some good qualities, even if they can't outdo some of the other good-but-rare DPS machines. Or have you never run anything aside from the Meta Gyr?

I literally said snipers was what they were always good at, but not much else. And slow-moving sluggish snipers, in a game that tends to have high mobility becoming a major factor in earlygame or lategame-depending on survivors of the main fight, of course-? Saw a lot of overconfident "Hurr durr NTG meta" tryhards (Presumably like you, if you're so quick to say I'm an idiot for saying that they sucked outside of two niche roles) get steamrolled by various things that they couldn't move fast enough to avoid, and were not durable enough to survive, either.

i don't have any brawler night gyrs because it's not well-suited for it. you can't say the mech is bad just because it doesn't excel at literally everything. the night gyr has a distinct role, but it's very strong in that role. it's the exact opposite of something like the timber wolf, which can do just about any build, but sucks at basically all of them.

also i never called you an idiot, i just said that you're wrong. the night gyr was a great mech from day one, and i feel that it still is.

Nema Nabojiv, on 08 February 2018 - 05:07 PM, said:

True, they are. But you can take madcat and have more dakka and more armor, so what's the point.

the point is that it's a heavy and not an assault.

[Nema Nabojiv]

cougurt, on 08 February 2018 - 05:15 PM, said:

the point is that it's a heavy and not an assault.

Ambiguous advantage to my taste. You dont take assault slot, but instead of your madcat there could be lrm highlander, and all the advantage gained by having NTG is negated.

[Knuckles OTool]

Mechs that don't have the agility to twist and fire quickly should be the mechs with insane amounts of armor or great hitboxes and mounts. If it handles like a tank then it should be tanky. Otherwise make its niche that it is lower armor but can dodge and spread damage well. Over-performers that get nailed so hard they become under-performers and unfun to play is what ruins the experience of buying, leveling and loving a mech.

We need more agility on the black knight and night gyr, you remember the once great mechs that cant be used for much anymore due to their role being to poke and burn but not being able to do it quickly. More armor on the dire wolf and the kodiak instead of the claim that they can boat a lot of weapons or load up on engine speed respectively to make up for their shortcomings.

A dire wolf being able to boat 5 of everything is still limited by the fact it only has as many slots as even a small mech and it uses the same heatscale as every other clan mech. Who cares if it can carry all those weapons when it cant fire them or get out of the way to cool.

I think quirks were actually a good way to bring up under-performing mechs but then you have good mechs that get several nerfs that swings the balance the other way and they get left untouched after to be cobweb collectors.

I get that they wanted to nerf the peep goose poptarting, great and needed, but nerfing the weapons twice and then the mech itself is overkill.

I'd like to point out that if everyone wasnt firing high damage alphas during 3 second pokes that many of these mechs wouldnt be in the poor state they are now.

Edited by Knuckles OTool, 08 February 2018 - 05:29 PM.