145 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

Stinger554, on 11 February 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

The wording for me isn't an issue...

It's that you lump 2xPPC/2xGauss into the same category as 2xPPC/1xGauss. Any possibility of the first is a huge hell no; the second is acceptable, but since they are grouped together people will vote no,in order to deny the first, or vote yes, in order to get the second.

The poll is FUBAR because of that. Kill it start again with more options if you want more accurate information.

People are voting yes anyway...

[Stinger554]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 February 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

How so? Its yes you want the 3 combo to come back, or no you don't. Very simple and unbiased.

It's in the title of the poll....
This means that EITHER 3x PPC alphas OR 2x Gauss + 2x PPC alphas will be possible again.


There two kinds of people voting for yes. People who want the 3 combo and people who want the 2x2 combo. Means the poll is biased.

If it had separated those two then it wouldn't be biased or if it just didn't include one of the combos.

Gyrok, on 12 February 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

People are voting yes anyway...

People are stupid so...

If there was an option to state that this poll is ****** I'd have picked that but alas there isn't so I put no.

[Gas Guzzler]

Stinger554, on 12 February 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

It's in the title of the poll....
This means that EITHER 3x PPC alphas OR 2x Gauss + 2x PPC alphas will be possible again.


There two kinds of people voting for yes. People who want the 3 combo and people who want the 2x2 combo. Means the poll is biased.

If it had separated those two then it wouldn't be biased or if it just didn't include one of the combos.


People are stupid so...

If there was an option to state that this poll is ****** I'd have picked that but alas there isn't so I put no.

OH I hadn't read it that way. But I'm fine with that too. If its too strong they can bring it down to 3. I legitimately want to see how it goes though. I predict that there will be some parity between Gauss vomit and the PPFLD build on the Clan side.

This would be a buff to the IS side though, the Nightstar might even be decent.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 February 2018 - 01:26 PM.

[Stinger554]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 February 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

OH I hadn't read it that way. But I'm fine with that too. If its too strong they can bring it down to 3. I legitimately want to see how it goes though. I predict that there will be some parity between Gauss vomit and the PPFLD build on the Clan side.

This would be a buff to the IS side though, the Nightstar might even be decent.

I know you're fine with it lol.

My point was that this poll is heavily biased towards a yes answer to bring gauss/PPC back. Whether it's intentional I can't say but that's the way it is and this poll should be scrapped and restarted because of it; but Mr. Dane is completely ignoring that so....

[Gas Guzzler]

Stinger554, on 12 February 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

I know you're fine with it lol.

My point was that this poll is heavily biased towards a yes answer to bring gauss/PPC back. Whether it's intentional I can't say but that's the way it is and this poll should be scrapped and restarted because of it; but Mr. Dane is completely ignoring that so....

Maybe. But whats the worst that could happen? 50 PPFLD builds return and become the bane of all happiness? If that happens, just bring it down to 3 and try that. I don't think PGI will be THAT reluctant to roll-back the roll-back partially, since they seemed pretty happy to add ghost heat in the first place.

I could take or leave the 50 PPFLD, if they turned around and decided that they still didn't want that after trying again, I wouldn't really fight it. The 3 combos are the ones im more interested in, and I think they would be balanced okay right now.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 February 2018 - 01:31 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Cody CC2224, on 12 February 2018 - 01:16 PM, said:

because its pin-point.
lazors aren't.

And? 20 damage of hot and heavy pinpoint which needs to be leaded vs what? 50 to 64 damage of point and click adventure?

[Stinger554]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 February 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

Maybe. But whats the worst that could happen? 50 PPFLD builds return and become the bane of all happiness? If that happens, just bring it down to 3 and try that. I don't think PGI will be THAT reluctant to roll-back the roll-back partially, since they seemed pretty happy to add ghost heat in the first place.

Just as a FYI you can do 2xgauss2xPPC now it's almost identical to running a 4xPPC build, which still viable. The only thing that isn't possible is poptarting with it and lets be honest here that's what you want back the poptarting bit back.

Gas Guzzler, on 12 February 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

I could take or leave the 50 PPFLD, if they turned around and decided that they still didn't want that after trying again, I wouldn't really fight it. The 3 combos are the ones im more interested in, and I think they would be balanced okay right now.

2xgauss1xPPC is no go, 1xgauss2xPPC is fine, but there in lies the problem with current implementation you cannot have one without the other so you get neither. Personally I'm fine with that.

They shouldn't have to roll-back a roll-back that's stupid. Use the compromise first and depending on how that works adjust.

[Cody CC2224]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 12 February 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

And? 20 damage of hot and heavy pinpoint...

c'mon dude...stay with reality.

[Gas Guzzler]

Stinger554, on 12 February 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

Just as a FYI you can do 2xgauss2xPPC now it's almost identical to running a 4xPPC build, which still viable. The only thing that isn't possible is poptarting with it and lets be honest here that's what you want back the poptarting bit back.

You could, but 4 cER PPCs is just better. More range, lighter, no ammo reliance, no charge. 2 Gauss 2 PPC gets better as you get closer because of heat efficiency, but at those ranges you may as well go gauss vomit.

I don't want to poptart with 2 Gauss 2 PPC, The Night Gyr can barely do that and I don't like the sacrifices you have to make to do it, and assaults can't actually poptart well.

I would probably poptart with the Night Gyr with 2 Gauss 1 ER PPC, but that isn't that fun because its so slow. And frankly you can do that now, through the ghost heat.

What I want most is the Timber Wolf 1 Gauss 2 ER PPC build back, and on the other side, a long list of IS mechs that all of a sudden have viable loadout options.

Stinger554, on 12 February 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

2xgauss1xPPC is no go, 1xgauss2xPPC is fine, but there in lies the problem with current implementation you cannot have one without the other so you get neither. Personally I'm fine with that.

They shouldn't have to roll-back a roll-back that's stupid. Use the compromise first and depending on how that works adjust.

I'm not fine with that. Its arbitrarily limiting countless mechs because of one mech that a group of players perceives to be much stronger than it is.

I don't see why rolling back a roll back is that stupid. Its the only way to truly see if something is overpowered as folks think it is going to be.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 February 2018 - 02:12 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Cody CC2224, on 12 February 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

c'mon dude...stay with reality.

12 to 14 tons for a pair of ppcs and if you'd try them out you'd find them kind of hot running for the damage they do, epsecially er variants since they are the only weapons ingame with a negative damage to heat ratio which generate more heat then they do damage.

[r4zen]

fenomeno, on 12 February 2018 - 04:56 AM, said:

I see a lot of 'respected' people posting in support of the combo, including unit-mates, so if anyone could explain where the skill is in gauss/ppc I'd appreciate it.

I largely agree with your assessment. GPPC mostly punishes stationary targets, or pilots who like to stare for no reason. Granted, every other style of weapon also punishes those players, there's just more perceived counterplay.

It's not that using GPPC effectively is a high skill floor, it's just that the average MWO pilot is leaps and bounds behind where you're at.

I want it back - it added an option on many maps to bring in a FP deck that I've since replaced with stale laservom. I'm very open with it being tweaked if it comes back - maybe GRs get a velocity buff to further desync the pinpoint aspect of the combo.

[Cody CC2224]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 12 February 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

a pair of ppcs

seriously man - read the topic.
it's about ghost heat yes/no on 2gauss+2peeps / 3peeps
2ppc don't generate ghost heat.

[Gas Guzzler]

The only thing to fear, is fear itself!

Release the combo!

[Cody CC2224]

r4zen, on 12 February 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

GPPC mostly punishes stationary targets, or pilots who like to stare for no reason...

the problem is 40-60 ppdmg into one component, which you can't negate/spread.

[Gas Guzzler]

I think the fact that the majority want it back makes it worth a try. If its too OP, there can be adjustments.

[K O Z A K]

definitely yes, release the poptarts

I really miss the jumping gyrs and timbers

wish there was an IS mech that could 2gauss+erppc poptart too

[Gas Guzzler]

Hazeclaw, on 12 February 2018 - 03:47 PM, said:

definitely yes, release the poptarts

I really miss the jumping gyrs and timbers

wish there was an IS mech that could 2gauss+erppc poptart too

Needs Gunslinger. That loyalty Victor can do it actually!

[K O Z A K]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 February 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

Needs Gunslinger. That loyalty Victor can do it actually!

not everyone has access to a loyalty Victor

[L0stA1m]

fenomeno, on 12 February 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

Ok, that is fair enough, if you are referring to the bleed of good players are opposed to the bleed of players in general. An earlier post mentioned a 25% drop in player base over however many months, and obviously 25% of the player base were not good players leaving because of balance issues that pandered to the casuals.

Again I agree that competitive games need high skill ceilings (just as much as they need low skill floors to attract / teach new players), I just think the benefits of giving good players another way to have fun with gauss/PPC could potentially be outweighed by how miserable the game would be for people who can't play vs gauss/PPC (which is apparently a significant chunk of the player base). It doesn't seem like making brawling or ballistics (for example) more viable would upset people so much as making gauss/PPC viable.

I do not even think the skill floor is very high. Yeah you have to get the basics (mechlab, maps, positioning, leg/torso movement) straight, but its the lowest paced shooter i ever played.
Brawling doesn't upset players because it doesnt requires much skill from a individual. Just run in a deathball and focus fire.
Ballistics are harder to play in a group then brawling. Most groups cant do it well, so no problem on the receiving end.
For longrangetrade every player on a team has to know where to positioning to allways have the best angles and exploit his heatbar.

Quote

I mean, where do you draw the line? I suspect that the 1% (0.1%?) of players who legitimately compete for the world championship have a valid reason for wanting it back, but their experience of the game in a competitive environment should have little or no bearing on the masses in QP or FW.

There are few good players and teams left in the game. I would draw the line from the middle of divB upwards and the regional finalists (2017 worded different, but i think you know what i mean).
it's sad, but the average skilllevel in MWO is the lowest i ever met in 15 years of online gaming.

Edited by L0stA1m, 12 February 2018 - 04:21 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Do you want a total of 3 Gauss/PPC or 4? Your poll is confused...