251 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Depends on how much of it you have and other factors like heat.

In my experiences MRM splatting is pretty nice, even on complete garbage mechs like the loyalty Wolverine. Super duper uber meta no, but quite viable and effective yes.

Sure. I wanst saying MRM splatting was bad. I was just saying that PPFLD is much better than spread damage.

[UnofficialOperator]

Deathlike, on 11 February 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

Redoing the system will never change the population problem.

Also, if we were to apply your silly Tier system, having an account in Tier 4 for alts in comp play would actually be a problem. Pay attention. You can rename your accounts as needed (you'd just be paying in MC) and if said rules applied to a private match, you can see outcomes dictated because of said behavior (tanking would be boring in the MM, but who cares until you use said benefit in a real match)

Is there Tier 4 comp play now??? You are saying there are comp play where players are divided into their tiers?

If not, then why are we talking about something which is imaginary and may never come to be???

Its like saying hey my imaginary laser will totally beat your imaginary laser if it ever existed.

Names are changeable yes but every name has a user ID which I'm pretty sure is unchanged.

This still does not change the fact that anyone can just make an alt and join your imaginary "T4 comp play"

When you remake the tier system, you can make it as granular as you like or not. You can make the leaderboards as granular as you like. Even down to individual tiers per mech basis.

Do you guys have no imagination?

[Kamikaze Viking]

Stonefalcon, on 11 February 2018 - 05:55 PM, said:

Say PGI gives in and opens up the use again of any 4 combo of Gauss+PPC. The only mech you will see me run is:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...efcc5ed042071ac

Any restriction applied to this 4 way combo needs to be copied through to the main forms of PPC, that being regular, ER and Heavy. A 60PPFLD with good cooling is just way too strong, throw it on a mech with more armour than a presidential bunker and you won't care if you can't move fast, stuff will just die.

As much as I would love to see the Annihilator grow more powerful than you could possibly imagine, I just cannot see this game suffer any more than it currently does with it's struggling pop.

Oh God, that looks fun, I can imagine you driving that and laughing every time you pull the trigger. But yeah that's the exact thing we don't want. its the 2PPC + Gauss or 2Gauss + 1ppc that people want to allow back in.

UnofficialOperator, on 11 February 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

Dude, that is why a redo of PSR/Tier/MM is needed and what I already stated. And everyone gets to be happy playing at the tier that they are most suited for. Those that can achieve better scores in this "minigame" will move up to the tougher tiers.

We realise that this is also of utmost importance, but as far as i know, after much discussion it was determined that weapons balance should come first as it would have a larger impact. This is 2nd on my list of priorities (the other big one is engine desync, and quirks for underperformers AFTER this pass)

[Hayek Lahiri]

I'm more in favor of solution 3 (3x GaussPPC is allowed, but 4x GaussPPC is not allowed. Also, 3x PPC will be allowed for the first time.). I don't like poptarts as much as the next guy, but if we limit it just enough to scare the laser vomit builds (obviously coolant flushes are still an issue, but one thing at a time) without it being able to curb stomp assault mechs like in the old days, then I think everyone (if not, most people) can be happy.

Edited by Platinum Top, 11 February 2018 - 07:56 PM.

[Deathlike]

UnofficialOperator, on 11 February 2018 - 07:41 PM, said:

Is there Tier 4 comp play now??? You are saying there are comp play where players are divided into their tiers?

If not, then why are we talking about something which is imaginary and may never come to be???

Its like saying hey my imaginary laser will totally beat your imaginary laser if it ever existed.

Names are changeable yes but every name has a user ID which I'm pretty sure is unchanged.

This still does not change the fact that anyone can just make an alt and join your imaginary "T4 comp play"

When you remake the tier system, you can make it as granular as you like or not. You can make the leaderboards as granular as you like. Even down to individual tiers per mech basis.

Do you guys have no imagination?

Do you like not read?

Forget comp play for a moment. Just imagine good player with alt account. You're allowing for abuses (as if it wasn't already possible today) AND you're giving account abusers free buffs? Seriously? There is literally NO serious PvP game that allows for such a major adjustment in skill deficit.

Edited by Deathlike, 11 February 2018 - 07:55 PM.

[Kamikaze Viking]

FupDup, on 11 February 2018 - 07:24 PM, said:

...Which is why I think the Nite Gear could stand to have its agility partially or fully restored to its old levels.

I think its either give it back its agility OR give back PPC gauss. Not Both because that would make it OP again.

[Deathlike]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 February 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

Give Clans 3 and IS 4 then.

Don't use Gyrok math.

[El Bandito]

As a Gausshammer owner, I sometimes hate its explodey XL. Clan mechs don't have that problem.

[UnofficialOperator]

Deathlike, on 11 February 2018 - 07:53 PM, said:

Do you like not read?

Forget comp play for a moment. Just imagine good player with alt account. You're allowing for abuses (as if it wasn't already possible today) AND you're giving account abusers free buffs? Seriously? There is literally NO serious PvP game that allows for such a major adjustment in skill deficit.

What free buffs are you talking about which will aid only the smurf and not everyone else as well??? Its damage reduction across the same tier match! Basically everyone in the same Tier 5 match will enjoy damage reduction (insert own buff here) and the match will be much longer and make it feel to the T5s as if they are contributing to a match. Isn't higher TTK what the average player wants???

Look at how the system is currently. You can ALSO create an alt and own the lower tier players there. NOTHING CHANGES. How is my system any worse?

And in Comp play, just remove all buffs or bonuses etc and make it vanilla. How difficult is that???

What is your problem???

PS: There are many games PVP or MMO etc in which there are hardcore or vanilla rulesets.

PSS: And how is adding 1 pt of damage to weapon A and buff cooldown of weapon B going to discourage a smurfer or TKer in T5? Its not. The biggest impact to everyone's player experience as of now is a PSR/MM/Tier makeover. Smurfing and seal clubbing is just inherent in a f2p game.

PSSS Once that fake T1 player goes back to fighting at his real tier at T5, he will enjoy the game a lot more and complain a lot less. Once that T1 player does not have to carry and watch the ridiculousness of his fake T1 comrades, he too will complain less.

PSSSS I'm not saying in the grand scheme of things, weapons shouldn't be balanced. They definitely should be to increase weapon diversity. However it is not a priority now. You guys should put your efforts into getting the MM fixed.

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 11 February 2018 - 09:09 PM.

[Wing 0]

Stonefalcon, on 11 February 2018 - 05:55 PM, said:

Say PGI gives in and opens up the use again of any 4 combo of Gauss+PPC. The only mech you will see me run is:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...efcc5ed042071ac

Any restriction applied to this 4 way combo needs to be copied through to the main forms of PPC, that being regular, ER and Heavy. A 60PPFLD with good cooling is just way too strong, throw it on a mech with more armour than a presidential bunker and you won't care if you can't move fast, stuff will just die.

As much as I would love to see the Annihilator grow more powerful than you could possibly imagine, I just cannot see this game suffer any more than it currently does with it's struggling pop.

that build will instantly shut you down if you fire an alpha strike right off the bat as it is right now. What most people want would be 2 ppc 1 gauss or the 1 ppc 2 gauss combination to come back. I understand what you mean by that build and that ANNI was a concern to begin along with and the MKII. Pretty much must have been the reason for PGI to nerf the combo to such an extreme. With the Fafnir Coming its going to present a problem especially with the recent HVY Gauss buff lately. Lets not forget that Clans cant use HVY Gauss.

Edited by Wing 0, 11 February 2018 - 09:00 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Deathlike, on 11 February 2018 - 07:56 PM, said:

Don't use Gyrok math.

You are right, it should be the other way around. Restrict the IS to 3 because the IS weapons do all their damage to one location where the Clan ER PPCs have spread damage, so let them do 4.

[VitriolicViolet]

UnofficialOperator, on 11 February 2018 - 08:44 PM, said:

What free buffs are you talking about which will aid only the smurf and not everyone else as well??? Its damage reduction across the same tier match! Basically everyone in the same Tier 5 match will enjoy damage reduction (insert own buff here) and the match will be much longer and make it feel to the T5s as if they are contributing to a match. Isn't higher TTK what the average player wants???

Look at how the system is currently. You can ALSO create an alt and own the lower tier players there. NOTHING CHANGES. How is my system any worse?

And in Comp play, just remove all buffs or bonuses etc and make it vanilla. How difficult is that???

What is your problem???

PS: There are many games PVP or MMO etc in which there are hardcore or vanilla rulesets.

PSS: And how is adding 1 pt of damage to weapon A and buff cooldown of weapon B going to discourage a smurfer or TKer in T5? Its not. The biggest impact to everyone's player experience as of now is a PSR/MM/Tier makeover. Smurfing and seal clubbing is just inherent in a f2p game.

PSSS Once that fake T1 player goes back to fighting at his real tier at T5, he will enjoy the game a lot more and complain a lot less. Once that T1 player does not have to carry and watch the ridiculousness of his fake T1 comrades, he too will complain less.

PSSSS I'm not saying in the grand scheme of things, weapons shouldn't be balanced. They definitely should be to increase weapon diversity. However it is not a priority now. You guys should put your efforts into getting the MM fixed.

Do you not realise that matches arent restricted by tier? most matches are a jumble of most tiers as there isnt the population for strict 'tier 5 only' games or 'tier 1 only' games.

What Gas and others are telling you is that if tier 5 gets high damage mitigation, and someone from tier 1 smurfs as tier 5, you get great players with large damage mitigation which exacerbates the very issue you are trying to fix ie: potatoes getting slaughtered.

the only way your idea is viable is if the population suddenly explodes enough for hard locks on tier as opposed to the current system of letting the tiers mix to keep wait times under 15 mins

[Khobai]

Looks like the status quo won anyway

PGI is unlikely to increase ghost heat on PPC/Gauss when 40% of the players who voted in the poll said they dont want it.

I like how it went from supposedly only 4 people opposing it to 40% opposing it in one day. lol

And people are far more likely to get angry from having something they dont want forced on them than just not getting something they want.


But I still think theres a possibility for a compromise. I like the idea of not being able to fire gauss rifles while jumping. Its very simple but it addresses all of the main concerns with poptarting. While still partially allowing x3 ppc/gauss and also allows the unnerfing of the night gyr's agility. gauss chargeup can also be removed because theres no need for chargeup if you cant poptart with gauss anymore.

Edited by Khobai, 11 February 2018 - 10:54 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 11 February 2018 - 10:30 PM, said:

Looks like the status quo won anyway

Lolwut? Fake news?

Bringing PPC/Gauss back has a significant lead. ~180 to ~120.

[The6thMessenger]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 February 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

Lolwut? Fake news?

Bringing PPC/Gauss back has a significant lead. ~180 to ~120.

Yeah. Although that depends, do we really need just basic majority, or overwhelming majority to approve?

[Laser Kiwi]

mixed tech, yes/ no mixed tech, no

my locust says no, speed at distance is less useful than speed up close

if i was in tier 4 i wouldn't give a rats cause tier 4 guys can't shoot, but unfortunately i'm erroneously grouped in tier 1 where some people can actually shoot.

And to be fair the good players still win matches so they don't really need poptart putridness back in their already overflowing skill cabinet. I think one of the great things about skill is doing the best with what you got, you ain't got ppc/gauss poptart and thats fine by me. Also faction play may be deadish, although still plenty of good fights to be had, clanners just poptarting huge amounts of ppc/gauss would be frustrating on the maps as they stand currently. IS is already on a hiding for nothing on alpine peaks for example without appropriate goat paths for cover between points on the map. Theres a few others where erppc laser fire is bad enough without getting the 50pinpoint all day long.

And finally weight my IS erppc/gauss double double weighs 44tons, yours (clanners) weighs 36, thats 8 tons or 10 percent of an assault mech and that is ******** in a pvp game.

[Gas Guzzler]

The6thMessenger, on 11 February 2018 - 11:00 PM, said:

Yeah. Although that depends, do we really need just basic majority, or overwhelming majority to approve?

I don't see what trying it for a couple months would hurt. If it's really that strong again then adjust accordingly.

[The6thMessenger]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 February 2018 - 11:55 PM, said:

I don't see what trying it for a couple months would hurt. If it's really that strong again then adjust accordingly.

Yeah sure, i guess. But my concern is, maybe PGI won't do something yet just because it's just basic majority, than overwhelming majority, if the changes were pitched in the final draft with only like 60% vs 40%.

[Khobai]

Quote

Lolwut? Fake news?

Bringing PPC/Gauss back has a significant lead. ~180 to ~120.

and if it was winner takes all youd be right. thats not how this works though.

PGI's goal is making money. They wont piss off a 40% minority.

They arnt going to risk their bottom line over something stupid like the difference between people being able to fire 2 weapons or 3 at the same time. lol.

They will just do the safe thing and maintain the status quo.

Quote

Yeah sure, i guess. But my concern is, maybe PGI won't do something yet just because it's just basic majority, than overwhelming majority, if the changes were pitched in the final draft with only like 60% vs 40%.

well they could always release a new final draft

with changes to PPC/Gauss that the whole community could agree on rather than be divided on

then PGI wouldnt have to risk upsetting anyone.

Edited by Khobai, 12 February 2018 - 12:27 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 12 February 2018 - 12:11 AM, said:

PGI's goal is making money. They wont piss off a 40% minority.

They arnt going to risk their bottom line over something stupid like the difference between being able to fire 2 weapons or 3 at the same time.

They will just do the safe thing and maintain the status quo.

What about the 60%, what if they leave?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 12 February 2018 - 12:14 AM.