347 replies to this topic

[pheeere]

Hilarious thread. Just proves my point again once more, most Clanners cannot see the forest for the trees. You seem so blind to how incredibly well your mechs are performing while not possessing the ability to see the other side's viewpoint. How oblivious to the obvious do you have to be, to think that IS mechs are OP compared to Clan Mechs? Just wow. Doesn't matter how skilled you are at that point, if you are biased that heavily. The flaws in OPs logic and argumentation have been pointed out often enough, no need to tackle those again now. The cherry picking is just hilarious and the mental gymnastics are on Olympic level.

[iLLcapitan]

I too, am confused by this threat. I'm with Ash on this one, believing that Alex and crew have gotten a bit static when it comes to builds. It's true that clan ballistics suck now and its a shame, not counting gauss.

Imo the HLL suck, they're only good against people who don't shoot back. I personally still do better with regular vomit (Lpl+ml).

Also, I'm not aboard the 'replace LpLs with LLs' on IS side. LpL still rule in their range bracket, if its skirmish on Grim Plexus you're better off with ERLs anyhow so...

If anything the tables seem turned in regard of variety. Before clams had more viable (/fun) options, now its IS.

[Dajegas]

El Bandito, on 12 February 2018 - 01:46 AM, said:

He skill doesn't matter at all if he think IS RACs are worth mentioning. And Clan ballistics suck? Did he forget Clan Gauss by convenience?

OP is so biased that he should run as a spokesperson for Donald Trump. Take this part of his post as example:



Clan heavies and assaults pack six ERML + 2xHLL, and Deathstrike can pack 2xGauss on top. And the 6xERML+2xHLL setup can still does more damage than the 3xLL+6xERML IS setup in 1.1 second, when the IS LL finishes its duration. Besides battle is not 1v1 affair, and in a team poking match Clan las-vomit's superior range also contributes a lot. Everyone knows by now not to trade with Clanners at midrange, cause their las-vomit is simply superior.


It is like OP is intentionally trying to show off IS's strong side while completely ignoring IS's shortcomings.

Please enlighten us and show us in which mech exactly you can put the highlighted loadout.

Edited by Dajegas, 12 February 2018 - 02:21 AM.

[El Bandito]

Dajegas, on 12 February 2018 - 02:21 AM, said:

Please enlighten us and show us in which mech exactly you can put the highlighted loadout.

Hellbringer 78 point laser alpha.





Marauder-IIC 78 point laser alpha.




Deathstrike can have 2xCGauss+2xHLL+4xERML for whooping 94 alpha gaussvomit.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 February 2018 - 02:33 AM.

[Dajegas]

El Bandito, on 12 February 2018 - 02:32 AM, said:

Hellbringer 78 point laser alpha.

Marauder-IIC 78 point laser alpha.

Deathstrike can have 2xCGauss+2xHLL+4xERML for whooping 94 alpha gaussvomit.

So it's one heavy and one assault, not all of them as you implied in your first post. Also, have you tried playing them* or you just like the pictures?
On the Deathstrike you were plainly wrong, thx for fixing your own statements.


* I mean recently, after the last nerf on clan erML

[Luminis]

Dajegas, on 12 February 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

So it's one heavy and one assault, not all of them as you implied in your first post.

The vast majority of Mechs are absolute crap on both sides which is a huge issue but hardly indicative of faction balance.

Doesn't matter if the TBR is pretty bad now if everything's bringing HBRs instead.

[Dajegas]

Luminis, on 12 February 2018 - 02:48 AM, said:

The vast majority of Mechs are absolute crap on both sides which is a huge issue but hardly indicative of faction balance.

Doesn't matter if the TBR is pretty bad now if everything's bringing HBRs instead.

Well while I agree on HBRs for laser vomit Clan (not the loadout posted above anyway, way too hot) I feel IS has a wider range of viable mech for that loadout: Rifleman, Grasshopper, Warhammer and Black Knight are all solid mechs to field and the higher tonnage allowed in IS drop decks makes up for the higher weight required.

If anything, being limited to only one reliable laser vomit heavy mech to field is a weakness IMHO

Edited by Dajegas, 12 February 2018 - 02:57 AM.

[Thinkagain01]

This has to be the 100th + reincarnation of this topic...

[El Bandito]

Dajegas, on 12 February 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

So it's one heavy and one assault, not all of them as you implied in your first post. Also, have you tried playing them* or you just like the pictures?

If you wanna be technical, then technically EBJ and Supernova can run the same setup. So yeah, mechs. And those Hellbringer, MAD-IIC, and Deathstrike are my mains with the setup I mentioned. Here is my stats with them.




Got anything else you want to say?

Edited by El Bandito, 12 February 2018 - 03:02 AM.

[sycocys]

If they removed the jesus box from the HBR there'd be a few more viable clan heavies.

[Dajegas]

El Bandito, on 12 February 2018 - 02:57 AM, said:

Got anything else you want to say?

LOL

[pheeere]

Dajegas, on 12 February 2018 - 03:02 AM, said:

LOL

That's what I thought when I looked up your stats on Jarls List. I usually don't care for stats, but it is always telling in discussions such as this one. I have dropped against Bandito multiple times, and trust me, he knows his Clan mechs. Considering your stats, we can pretty much doubt that you do. Sorry to be so blunt, but seeing your attitude in this discussion, it seemed necessary.

[El Bandito]

sycocys, on 12 February 2018 - 03:01 AM, said:

If they removed the jesus box from the HBR there'd be a few more viable clan heavies.

EBJ, Mad Dog, Linebacker, and NGyr are still popular FP Clan Heavies. And Sun Spider is arriving for the Clans.

I personally think ECM is not as much of a deal post new skill tree, as before. A lot of players do not go for full ECM nodes so the mech gets revealed pretty easily.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 February 2018 - 03:11 AM.

[Dajegas]

pheeere, on 12 February 2018 - 03:08 AM, said:

That's what I thought when I looked up your stats on Jarls List. I usually don't care for stats, but it is always telling in discussions such as this one. I have dropped against Bandito multiple times, and trust me, he knows his Clan mechs. Considering your stats, we can pretty much doubt that you do. Sorry to be so blunt, but seeing your attitude in this discussion, it seemed necessary.

Feel free to look up anything you like, and if you think the loadout he posted for HBR is playable, feel free to play it.

I won't but that's probably because I don't know the game. LOL

[pheeere]

Dajegas, on 12 February 2018 - 03:14 AM, said:

Feel free to look up anything you like, and if you think the loadout he posted for HBR is playable, feel free to play it.

I won't but that's probably because I don't know the game. LOL

Why is the loadout not playable, in your opinion?

[sycocys]

El Bandito, on 12 February 2018 - 03:09 AM, said:

EBJ, Mad Dog, Linebacker, and NGyr are still popular FP Clan Heavies. And Sun Spider is arriving for the Clans.

I personally think ECM is not as much of a deal post new skill tree, as before. A lot of players do not go for full ECM nodes so the mech gets revealed pretty easily.

I wasn't talking so much about popularity, just that even post skill nodes the ecm wave drops are still as effective as they were when it was full on jesus box.

It's really the same problem (in terms of balance) as it was before, ecm being on a super capable chassis and not having any limits to how many can be fielded at once. The skill node thing only reduced the problem of stacking the ecm bubbles.

[Dajegas]

pheeere, on 12 February 2018 - 03:18 AM, said:

Why is the loadout not playable, in your opinion?

It is too hot. Granted, has great alpha but almost no DPS. You shoot once when the enemy is 5-600m away and by the time you can shoot again they are in optimal range where IS can shoot 2 or 3 alpha before having to cool down. And this is in cool maps, try to use that in Vitric or Rubellite...
Not to mention the long duration of HLLs and the fact that they will most likely desync with erMLs if you don't wait for HLL cooldown time.
IS lasers are cooler, duration is less, more dificult to desync. All adds up to higher DPS for IS compared to higher burst damage for Clan.

So yes, HBRs are great, but need to reduce alpha in favor of DPS and do not have the durability of an IS mech.

Edited by Dajegas, 12 February 2018 - 03:35 AM.

[Luminis]

Dajegas, on 12 February 2018 - 02:55 AM, said:

Well while I agree on HBRs for laser vomit Clan (not the loadout posted above anyway, way too hot) I feel IS has a wider range of viable mech for that loadout: Rifleman, Grasshopper, Warhammer and Black Knight are all solid mechs to field and the higher tonnage allowed in IS drop decks makes up for the higher weight required.

If anything, being limited to only one reliable laser vomit heavy mech to field is a weakness IMHO

Strictly in terms of balance, I don't see how 3x HBR puts you at a disadvantage vs. WHM + RFL + GHP. It's boring yeah, but it doesn't change performance. Fielding the same Mech three times is not an inherent drawback.

The tonnage handicap warrants looking at, agreed. Though my personal experience is that I can put up better numbers in my HBR than in my WHM-6D, but I have to admit I've been playing not as much and fairly casually lately, so that impression might be a little off.

[El Bandito]

sycocys, on 12 February 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

I wasn't talking so much about popularity, just that even post skill nodes the ecm wave drops are still as effective as they were when it was full on jesus box.

So is the complaint about ECM in general or just Hellbringer specifically? Cause OP is crying about how BLR-1Gs are tearing through his sniper mechs, which are likely Hellbringers.

Dajegas, on 12 February 2018 - 03:30 AM, said:

It is too hot. Granted, has great alpha but almost no DPS. You shoot once when the enemy is 5-600m away and by the time you can shoot again they are in optimal range where IS can shoot 2 or 3 alpha before having to cool down. And this is in cool maps, try to use that in Tourmaline or Rubellite...
Not to mention the long duration of HLLs and the fact that they will most likely desync with erMLs if you don't wait for HLL cooldown time.
IS lasers are cooler, duration is less, more dificult to desync. All adds up to higher DPS for IS compared to higher burst damage for Clan.

So yes, HBRs are great, but need to reduce alpha in favor of DPS and do not have the durability of an IS mech.

Heat doesn't matter much when you are trading. You are thinking in terms of QP mentality. FP is a different beast. Most competent units I faced against emphasize big alpha in trades, rather than sustain. Besides, Clans mechs need to cool off after 70+ damage alpha so laser cooldown desync doesn't really hurt them as much as you think.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 February 2018 - 03:41 AM.

[pheeere]

Dajegas, on 12 February 2018 - 03:30 AM, said:

It is too hot. Granted, has great alpha but almost no DPS. You shoot once when the enemy is 5-600m away and by the time you can shoot again they are in optimal range where IS can shoot 2 or 3 alpha before having to cool down. And this is in cool maps, try to use that in Tourmaline or Rubellite...
Not to mention the long duration of HLLs and the fact that they will most likely desync with erMLs if you don't wait for HLL cooldown time.
IS lasers are cooler, duration is less, more dificult to desync. All adds up to higher DPS for IS compared to higher burst damage for Clan.

So yes, HBRs are great, but need to reduce alpha in favor of DPS and do not have the durability of an IS mech.

So your argument is that just because you suck at heat management, the build is too hot and not playable. Not that I did not expect this answer, I just wanted to see it stated from your side. These days I play 90% of my playtime FP/CW, on many evenings against EVIL/BCMC multiple times in a row. They use these hot builds all the time, some of them multiple times per deck. You tell those guys over in their threads that their builds suck because they are too hot, please do it. I'll be grabbing my popcorn in the meantime

The build is too hot for pure brawling, of course. You poptart, re-position, make use of your ECM, stay guarded by your teammates. If your aiming is worth anything, you will wreck face with the build. If not, well... It is too hot for you, then.