347 replies to this topic

[Lances107]

El Bandito, on 12 February 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

Hey, we faced 420, EVIL, BCMC, and until recently KCom. There are/were a lot of strong units in Clans. They are just not as big as us. Even if they defeat one of our group, two more will be kicking pug teams' arses.




Fatnir is not gonna add to what the Sleipnir and the Mauler-2P are already doing, BTW. You are overestimating the difference that fatty with bad hitboxes potentially can make. And IS Heavy Gauss vomit only amounts to 65-70 alpha at 250 meters. 250 meters. On mechs that stroll around mere 50-55 kph due to forced Std engine.

Methinks Clanners should get better at shooting side torsi.

Methinks IS pilots need to do more siege..... As in siege you can not withdraw outside 250 meters on defense or offense without risking the offensive or risking the objective on defense. Also those double heavy gauss builds rip through anything.

Now can we do without the banter. My point with this thread is give the clan some flavor for their builds again thats all. Is that really such a threat to the IS, that you guys fear that?

[El Bandito]

Lances107, on 13 February 2018 - 03:43 AM, said:

Methinks IS pilots need to do more siege..... As in siege you can not withdraw outside 250 meters on defense or offense without risking the offensive or risking the objective on defense. Also those double heavy gauss builds rip through anything.

Now can we do without the banter. My point with this thread is give the clan some flavor for their builds again thats all. Is that really such a threat to the IS, that you guys fear that?

What banter? My advice on shooting ST is valid against dealing with IS gauss mechs, while your suggestion on dropping more on siege maps is utterly useless, as mode type cannot be selected by players.

Besides, my post was aimed at your Fatnir comment specifically. Now why do you have to take that as an attack on your suggestion on adding more flavor to the Clans?

Edited by El Bandito, 13 February 2018 - 04:06 AM.

[Athom83]

Lances107, on 13 February 2018 - 03:43 AM, said:

Methinks IS pilots need to do more siege..... As in siege you can not withdraw outside 250 meters on defense or offense without risking the offensive or risking the objective on defense.

And? I play siege all the time and when both sides know what they're doing the Clan still have an advantage despite the "tonnage gap" being complained about.

Lances107, on 13 February 2018 - 03:43 AM, said:

Also those double heavy gauss builds rip through anything.

Only in very close range. Clan mechs that are much lighter and faster while having similar firepower can rip them apart before they ever get into HGauss range. This is coumpounded in FW more than QP because range and speed is king in FW.

Lances107, on 13 February 2018 - 03:43 AM, said:

Now can we do without the banter. My point with this thread is give the clan some flavor for their builds again thats all. Is that really such a threat to the IS, that you guys fear that?

... wat? Clan mechs already have their own flavors. They have their skirmishers, their weapons platforms, their pushers, their tanks, their snipers, their brawlers, et cetera et cetera. And the thing with Clan mechs is that they can swap between the flavors on the same mechs because of the adaptability of Clan tech in general. Each of the IS mechs are for the most part locked into their own specific flavor (with some being able to swap between two) because of the limitations of IS tech and the limitations of IS mech variants.

[Gas Guzzler]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 12 February 2018 - 10:54 PM, said:

Weight's a physical property, both items do the exact same thing, one weighs more than the other, thus they are functionally idtentical, as their function is, you guessed it, identical.

Either way, I mean functionally identical in that in a match they'll both survive until both side torsos are blown off and have the exact same penalties. Its semantics anyway, I've clarified this enough.

Who the **** cares, cXL >>> LFE. Its not that complicated.

[Yondu Udonta]

Athom83, on 13 February 2018 - 12:42 PM, said:

And? I play siege all the time and when both sides know what they're doing the Clan still have an advantage despite the "tonnage gap" being complained about.

I would like to see you as a Clanner attacking into 100t ballistic turrets.

[pheeere]

Yondu the Ravager, on 14 February 2018 - 12:49 AM, said:

I would like to see you as a Clanner attacking into 100t ballistic turrets.

What about it?

[Luminis]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 13 February 2018 - 12:34 AM, said:

I can pull out quite a few builds where the IS mech has the firepower and cooling advantages at the cost of running just a bit slower, even with the dreaded LFE disadvantage you guys are playing up.

I'm still waiting for some smurfy links to those OP IS builds, by the way.

[El Bandito]

Yondu the Ravager, on 14 February 2018 - 12:49 AM, said:

I would like to see you as a Clanner attacking into 100t ballistic turrets.

No need to do that when Clan mechs can just outpoke them.

[lazorbeamz]

IS has overpowered mediums such as the bushwalker and assassin. Really later into the match the clans are so screwed.

[Yondu Udonta]

El Bandito, on 14 February 2018 - 02:50 AM, said:

No need to do that when Clan mechs can just outpoke them.

Some siege maps it is possible, but maps like vitric forge with lots of small structures that allow IS to hide behind really plays to the IS advantage, since Clanners are generally fighting under their optimal range.

[El Bandito]

Yondu the Ravager, on 14 February 2018 - 05:48 AM, said:

Some siege maps it is possible, but maps like vitric forge with lots of small structures that allow IS to hide behind really plays to the IS advantage, since Clanners are generally fighting under their optimal range.

All I can tell you is that even when defending on Vitric with 90-100 ton IS brawl mechs, Clan side can still poke them to death with NGyrs, and Hellbringers. The defending IS side basically have the choice of either getting slowly whittled down, or to try to push with those slow pokes. Naturally organized units are best for it, but it is very possible to do. And that's on one of the most brawl friendly siege map.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 February 2018 - 06:08 AM.

[Sjorpha]

El Bandito, on 14 February 2018 - 06:07 AM, said:

All I can tell you is that even when defending on Vitric with 90-100 ton IS brawl mechs, Clan side can still poke them to death with NGyrs, and Hellbringers. The defending IS side basically have the choice of either getting slowly whittled down, or to try to push with those slow pokes. Naturally organized units are best for it, but it is very possible to do. And that's on one of the most brawl friendly siege map.

This doesn't match my, quite extensive, experience. On vitric you'll typically defend with a ballistic firing line and you'll be in range to fire when the enemy pushes in through the gates. There is really no way to poke at the defenders from outside the gates. I don't really understand where you're poking from with those Night Gyrs and Hellbringers that the defenders can't shoot back, you're inside the defenders optimal range once you're inside the gates. Slow attrition favors the defenders.

I mean I'm not saying you're not winning as clans attacking vitric, but in my experience you do it by either pushing in and winning the fight straight up because you're just simply better, or you do it by taking the objectives.

[Yondu Udonta]

El Bandito, on 14 February 2018 - 06:07 AM, said:

All I can tell you is that even when defending on Vitric with 90-100 ton IS brawl mechs, Clan side can still poke them to death with NGyrs, and Hellbringers. The defending IS side basically have the choice of either getting slowly whittled down, or to try to push with those slow pokes. Naturally organized units are best for it, but it is very possible to do. And that's on one of the most brawl friendly siege map.

In a pug setup Clans inevitably have the advantage, that I can agree, due to the lack of organized movements being favourable for alpha poking. But once you attack Vitric Forge having the idea of trading against a premade IS team, you can prepare to get slapped in the damn face by Sleipnirs and 100t turrets.

[El Bandito]

Yondu the Ravager, on 14 February 2018 - 07:43 AM, said:

In a pug setup Clans inevitably have the advantage, that I can agree, due to the lack of organized movements being favourable for alpha poking. But once you attack Vitric Forge having the idea of trading against a premade IS team, you can prepare to get slapped in the damn face by Sleipnirs and 100t turrets.

Since (MS) is switching to Clans soon, I'll tell you how we dealt against premade IS teams on Vitric once we get the drops.

[El Bandito]

Sjorpha, on 14 February 2018 - 06:37 AM, said:

This doesn't match my, quite extensive, experience. On vitric you'll typically defend with a ballistic firing line and you'll be in range to fire when the enemy pushes in through the gates. There is really no way to poke at the defenders from outside the gates. I don't really understand where you're poking from with those Night Gyrs and Hellbringers that the defenders can't shoot back, you're inside the defenders optimal range once you're inside the gates. Slow attrition favors the defenders.

I mean I'm not saying you're not winning as clans attacking vitric, but in my experience you do it by either pushing in and winning the fight straight up because you're just simply better, or you do it by taking the objectives.

That's why you open up both gates and keep the opponents guessing, making them to stay near the wall of shame. Then you can hard move right, forcing the enemy to consolidate near the buildings around the gens, lest they lose them in a rush. Once the enemies are hugging the buildings, the poking can begin in earnest. If they go after your tail, you can just take down the objectives.

Should work against average premades. Unless you are from 07, and bring three waves of Linebackers for the sole reason of gen rushing.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 February 2018 - 09:21 AM.

[ANOM O MECH]

Athom83, on 13 February 2018 - 12:42 PM, said:

And? I play siege all the time and when both sides know what they're doing the Clan still have an advantage despite the "tonnage gap" being complained about.


Only in very close range. Clan mechs that are much lighter and faster while having similar firepower can rip them apart before they ever get into HGauss range. This is coumpounded in FW more than QP because range and speed is king in FW.


... wat? Clan mechs already have their own flavors. They have their skirmishers, their weapons platforms, their pushers, their tanks, their snipers, their brawlers, et cetera et cetera. And the thing with Clan mechs is that they can swap between the flavors on the same mechs because of the adaptability of Clan tech in general. Each of the IS mechs are for the most part locked into their own specific flavor (with some being able to swap between two) because of the limitations of IS tech and the limitations of IS mech variants.

By different flavours, this guy is asking for his easy mode back.

It blows me away how many CW clan regulars stop dropping when the IS has a chance.

[Lances107]

El Bandito, on 13 February 2018 - 04:05 AM, said:

What banter? My advice on shooting ST is valid against dealing with IS gauss mechs, while your suggestion on dropping more on siege maps is utterly useless, as mode type cannot be selected by players.

Besides, my post was aimed at your Fatnir comment specifically. Now why do you have to take that as an attack on your suggestion on adding more flavor to the Clans?

Anyone who starts a statement with the words Methinks clans need to learn to target side torsos, is going to be taken as a aggressive statement.

I honestly do believe that when the Fafnir hits your going to see more gauss builds, maybe I am wrong, its an opinion.

Well let me ask you this, are you against more flavor being added to the clan builds? Do you concede to the point that some of this ghost heat is nothing more then a punishment upon clans and does not contribute to balance, and that it also limits what builds can be put in the field.

Lets look at one weapon. Clan Ultra Ac 20 heat 7, if you double tap, your heat is 14. Clan Er Large laser, heat 10.80. Now if you remove the ghost heat for using two clan ultra ac 20s. Each time the pilot double taps he is putting out 28 heat. Each time a person fires two clan er large lasers they are putting out 21.60 heat. Where is the need for ghost heat on someone using two clan ultra ac 20s? Not to mention such a build would be a good counter to heavy gauss. The numbers assume the person is going to double tap and even if they dont its still 14 base heat. Lets face it most people who use that weapon type is going to double tap. So why the ghost heat?I do believe my heat numbers are low on the clan ultra ac 20, as if you double tap right away you get a heat spike. Heck we haven't even added any ghost heat yet.

[Yondu Udonta]

El Bandito, on 14 February 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

Since (MS) is switching to Clans soon, I'll tell you how we dealt against premade IS teams on Vitric once we get the drops.

Will love to be on the defending side, now that I know your sneaky Bandito tactics.

[Y E O N N E]

You cannot trigger ghost heat with one UAC/20; on all UACs there is a compulsory 0.5 second delay specifically to prevent that.

[ROSS-128]

The main problem with the "Clan's flavor" is that their flavor has historically consisted of "how we're better than the IS in every way".

That's a no-go here, because if you went with that the game would suck horribly for IS players. So you'll have to go a-hunting for a new flavor, or invent a new one out of whole cloth.