123 replies to this topic

[Bombast]

MrMadguy, on 16 February 2018 - 05:07 AM, said:

Till then - more expensive 'Mech, that requires more $$$ or grind to get = better 'Mech.

That's not how it works though. The most effective mechs are not all universally the most expensive ones.

Maybe C-Bill costs should be re-calibrated, but as they stand now, they do not support your statements.

[Officer Kyle]

MrMadguy, on 16 February 2018 - 05:07 AM, said:

Ok, performances are normalized, cuz "It's online shooter - not single player game or MMORPG". But why costs aren't normalized then? Costs come from single player game too, but all of a sudden they aren't normalized or removed. Conclusion: we will talk about balance only when PGI will "balance" CB/MC 'Mech costs. Till then - more expensive 'Mech, that requires more $$$ or grind to get = better 'Mech.

How about the more expensive ones just come with a better loadout? That way you have cheaper mechs that are weaker at first but can be upgraded to equal the best for a comparable price?

[roekenny]

Sir Kyle, on 16 February 2018 - 05:03 AM, said:

I've been trying to use it with 4 Heavy Machineguns and a tag laser. Don't be mean, It tries so hard.


They nerfed it?! Why?

Had a 50% cool down on lasers so you effectively had 2 large pulse lasers what would never overheat. Fun times

[Metus regem]

Sir Kyle, on 16 February 2018 - 05:03 AM, said:

They nerfed it?! Why?

That is a question I often ask of PGI.... they usually say "according to our data it is over performing."

This then leads me to ask "What data? The Live Servers don't match this...."

[sharknoise]

Locusts were used pretty often in months before the skill tree, it seemed to be the most popular light after Cheetah. But some of their quirks were huge then. I guess the tree didn't give enough to compensate for the quirk reduction. Locusts also haven't really benefitted from armor nodes like Wolfhounds, for example. Also the most popular build used SPLs, and these are in a bad place right now. Though I haven't played my Locusts much post-skill tree so I might be wrong in some of these points.

[Torric]

Sir Kyle, on 16 February 2018 - 05:03 AM, said:

I've been trying to use it with 4 Heavy Machineguns and a tag laser. Don't be mean, It tries so hard.


They nerfed it?! Why?

Because PGI, basically. And also we can't have nice viable things.

THe LCT-1V used to have spectacular LPL cooldown and duration quirks, to the point that the single LPL you could fit performed almost like two LPLs. That on top of great mobility quirks.

I don't think there have been any complaints about the LCT-1V melting faces specifically, but there had been a lot of whine about the LCT-1E (which, for a time, was considered one of, if not THE best IS light mech).
My guess would be that the nerf of the 1V was either collateral damage from nerfing the 1E and the whole chassis, or they went over their quirks list and decided that extreme quirks should go, regardless of the mech in question.

The 1V (P) is my most played mech by far. 600+ matches. I played it back before there were any quirks and it truly was the worst mech in MWO and 170 dmg done at the end of the match was something to feel proud about.
When it was buffed/quirked, you still were pretty much hardcapped to about 600-700 dmg a match, under ABSOLUTELY ideal circumstances of course (cold map, 98% time spent engaging the enemy, getting a few sidetorsi and such, not counting airstrikes/artillery).
Most of the time, ofc, you would end up somewhere in the 300-500 range. The quirks made the LPL pretty much into a rapid fire PPFLD weapon, but it was an alpha of a whopping, fearsome, gamebreaking 11 (eleven!!!) dmg. You would not solo any competent enemy mech (at least not in a reasonable timeframe), and you would not rack up a lot of killshots.
Great for constantly harassing the enemy though.

The fact they nerfed that mech just very much confirmed my impression of PGIs sense and ability when it comes to designing and balancing their game.

Edited by Torric, 16 February 2018 - 05:55 AM.

[Snowbluff]

It's an okay mech. I've had some good matches in it. The pirhana is probably better because of all of the damage, but it doesn't have as much speed or an ECM variant.

MrMadguy, on 16 February 2018 - 03:23 AM, said:

What is funny about all "Lights are useless" threads - is that guys ask 'Mechs, that cost 1.5M CB or $3 and require 10-15 matches to be bought, to be as viable, as 'Mechs, that cost 15M CB or $30 and require 100-150 matches to be bought.

You just should realize one simple thing - it's cheapest 'Mech in whole game. It just shouldn't be good.

MrMadguy supports pay to win.

[MrMadguy]

Snowbluff, on 16 February 2018 - 05:51 AM, said:

MrMadguy supports pay to win.

No, I support completely opposite thing: if 'Mechs are equal, then why should I grind 150 matches to buy that one, I want?

"Better loadout" doesn't mean anything, as firepower and armor - aren't only things, game is balanced around. There is also such things, as speed, mobility and ability to avoid/spread damage.

[Chortles]

MrMadguy, on 16 February 2018 - 03:23 AM, said:

What is funny about all "Lights are useless" threads - is that guys ask 'Mechs, that cost 1.5M CB or $3 and require 10-15 matches to be bought, to be as viable, as 'Mechs, that cost 15M CB or $30 and require 100-150 matches to be bought.

You just should realize one simple thing - it's cheapest 'Mech in whole game. It just shouldn't be good.

Light mechs at 1.5 million C-bills are far from viable. It gets you the stock version. They come with a standard engine, single heat sinks, and standard structure which would raise the price much higher to upgrade. Stock lights are probably the worst mechs in the game.

Assault mechs that cost 15 million C-bills are Clan or certain Inner Sphere mechs that are fully fitted with high performance upgrades.

Edited by Chortles, 16 February 2018 - 09:05 AM.

[Electron Junkie]

sharknoise, on 16 February 2018 - 05:45 AM, said:

Locusts were used pretty often in months before the skill tree, it seemed to be the most popular light after Cheetah. But some of their quirks were huge then. I guess the tree didn't give enough to compensate for the quirk reduction. Locusts also haven't really benefitted from armor nodes like Wolfhounds, for example. Also the most popular build used SPLs, and these are in a bad place right now. Though I haven't played my Locusts much post-skill tree so I might be wrong in some of these points.

I used to almost exclusively run around in a Locust before $hiat Tree showed up. The $hiat Tree combined with the loss of modules and SPL nerf more or less killed the locust as there was no longer a way to move quickly and do any sort of appreciable damage.

[Clownwarlord]

I find the locust to be great.

The 1V I run 3 MGs and 1 ERLL. I stick to the idea of range poke till open then boom and zoom to destroy open component. The 1E I run ERSL and SPL and then I just use it for other light armored mechs or open components. 3S I run 4 SRM2s and 1 ERSL for the same thing as the 1E (sadly run out of ammo quickly). Lastly I have the BP which is 2 MGs 2 ERSL 2 ERML, I do some mid range poke but also boom and zoom.

I find to be effective in a locust I have to always look to sneak up on the enemy or wait till the enemy team is fairly opened before I run out to fight them.

[Jack Booted Thug]

It's terrible... https://mwomercs.com...st-score-board/

[NRP]

Locusts are definitely not useless. Well, at least two of the variants aren't useless. You just have to be really careful, patient, and sneaky.

[Y E O N N E]

Is the LCT-1V useless? More or less, yes.

The LCT-1E and LCT-3M, however, are not. Even though PGI removed its ability to stutter-step and took away most of the weapon quirks, those two remain alright for QP.

[Lanzman]

Locusts are awesome. But not Awesomes. I have three. One with a single ER Large Laser which works very well as long as I remember to shoot once and then move. One with two ER Mediums and two SRM-4s, which as long as I run at full speed and jink and jive does quite well harassing bigger mechs. The third one has two ER Mediums and a light PPC, which allows me to shoot and scoot at all ranges. The thing to remember when piloting a Locust is not to stand still, ever.

[Clownwarlord]

Locust every single one has basically the same role, vulture of the battlefield.

[JediPanther]

Lol custs rule! I have all seven of them including the hero. It doesn't need mega armor quirks like the urb because it goes Flash speed with max xl. It's definitely the hardest light mech to learn and one of the fun-est. 1E can easily get you ace of spades multiple times although you only get the title and reward once.

My 1E and PB have replaced virtually all my other light mechs. Depending on how you weaponize it it can go do a lot. Sniper,brawl (esp great at killing slow turning assaults) skirmish, harass, and once you learn how to pilot it you can go light hunter killer taking on those annoying mgs builds or achs. You won't always win that fight but when you do it's a rush.

The one skill tree you must have above all others is mobility for speed tweek. After that you can do whatever with the rest of the points. Each of my seven locust is built to one play style. I've got a dedicated scout,striker using air and arty strikes, lrm 5 pest,srm 4 terror, hunter-killer build etc.

Good Locust pilots are really hard and scary to fight. They don't need ecm or clan xl crutches and they know the maps better than most. The three things that will get you killed in a locust the most: not moving, using long duration weapons, and not paying attention to target info taking on a mech with streak missiles.

[Snowbluff]

MrMadguy, on 16 February 2018 - 06:30 AM, said:

No, I support completely opposite thing: if 'Mechs are equal, then why should I grind 150 matches to buy that one, I want?

"Better loadout" doesn't mean anything, as firepower and armor - aren't only things, game is balanced around. There is also such things, as speed, mobility and ability to avoid/spread damage.

Monetary value shouldn't be a consideration in the strength of a mech. The only limiting factor in most matches is the number of players on each team. As such, each player should be considered equal in value regardless of weight class they play.

[Throe]

El Bandito, on 16 February 2018 - 04:31 AM, said:

As for why should it be limited to 20 tons, Locust is by lore a 20 ton mech. That is the highest it will go. You want bigger tonnage, pilot other mechs.

There is plenty of canon precedent for intentionally taking an overweight 'Mech. I believe it normally comes with heat disadvantages, and that's probably the most significant and worst part. Other considerations include reduced speed. As an example, if you took a 25t Locust with a 170 Engine, it would move at the same speed as any other standard 25t 'Mech with a 170 Engine(maybe a bit slower if we want to assume that would be otherwise overpowered).

Sadly, MWO's current engine makes no provision for this type of weight variance. All 'Mechs move at a given speed for their current engine rating and tonnage rating, with no regard to actual weight.

I don't expect them to make it so that ammo expenditure or component destructions during a match improves performance, but it would be nice to be able to make fine adjustments to a 'Mech's performance characteristics in the 'Mech lab by adjusting the weight. As an example, intentionally take a 95t Atlas to make it slightly more agile. The only case in which this would be necessarily limited would be in the case of already max-speed Lights, since the game engine has a limit in place to prevent problems with targeting/latency. Taking a lighter than usual Assassin with an already maxed engine would grant no additional speed, for example.

[Rusharn]

I run the Pirate's Bane, and with ECM or Stealth armor you can cause a lot of trouble for an opposing team, you hit mech hard enough in the rear armor and you can turn half the team, split them up, or easily kill slow moving assaults or heavies. But you have to be a good marksman, a good pilot and read the paper doll of the enemy to put your damage where it counts the most.