24 replies to this topic

[Inatu Elimor]

= Important tactic on the battlefield.
Now take the Crimson map. QP. Battle is either tunnel or saddle. How boring, how predictable... Why always those two spots ?
I did a test. I made a call to group: unite G8, take cover position, be patient for the enemy to come, focus fire etc... Luckily one of the team mates took over as lead so I was assured of at least some support (he was an experienced guy obviously). Now what could go wrong?
Well this:

- only 3 guys out of 12 sticking to the plan
- the rest rushing in on far away enemy arrival, leaving G8 only for the faithfull 3
-group entirely dispersed
-enemy rolling over and laughing.

A bad call ? I don' t think so... Not going to blame people on their inabillity of listening or lack of patience, or myself employing bad tactics , but so much more could have been done in MWO strategically wise...

I plea for new, fresh and original tactics !

[SuperMCDad]

Just a thought, that may or may not hamper in game coordination. There may be a not inconsiderable number of non-English speakers on any given team. Given the percentage of people who actually talk on coms, this could quite often be the issue.

[Daggett]

You can't expect advanced stuff from pugs, this rarely works for several reasons.
If you want tactics you need to get competitive and join a decent unit.

Edited by Daggett, 18 February 2018 - 01:15 PM.

[Inatu Elimor]

Daggett, on 18 February 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

You can't expect advanced stuff from pugs, this rarely works for several reasons.
If you want tactics you need to get competitive and join a decent unit.

Pugs ? Tier 1 and 2 here. They should know. I agree on the units. Been there.

SuperMCDad, on 18 February 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

Just a thought, that may or may not hamper in game coordination. There may be a not inconsiderable number of non-English speakers on any given team. Given the percentage of people who actually talk on coms, this could quite often be the issue.

I hardly doubt this. The moment the enemy was spotted they were so eager to get in. Primal reaction.

Edited by Inatu Elimor, 18 February 2018 - 01:18 PM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Inatu Elimor, on 18 February 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

- only 3 guys out of 12 sticking to the plan
- the rest rushing in on far away enemy arrival, leaving G8 only for the faithfull 3
-group entirely dispersed
-enemy rolling over and laughing.

It usually happens that some bad-at-the-game armchair commander makes a stupid call, some people listen to him because they're even worse, split the team by doing so, and their team loses. Nothing new.

[Deathlike]

In general quick play, the natural reaction is just to hunt the enemy down, regardless of how you get there or how vulnerable the group may be when you meet them.

In bigger groups where there is some semblance of coordination, other tactics may be employed... only limited to the people that are willing to be a little more disciplined.

In essence, you are rarely going to get random people to listen to you. You can only control what you have as a group. It's usually easier to deal with that way.

At higher levels of play, there are truly less surprises due to preparation.

Edited by Deathlike, 18 February 2018 - 01:24 PM.

[Bombast]

Inatu Elimor, on 18 February 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

Pugs ? Tier 1 and 2 here. They should know. I agree on the units. Been there.

Should know what? That the average shot caller is just as bad, if not worse, than the average pug, and should be ignored basically on principle? Especially when, by your own admission, there were two people making calls?

Inatu Elimor, on 18 February 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

Now take the Crimson map...

...unite G8...

I feel like I'm missing something?

[Vxheous]

Bombast, on 18 February 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

Should know what? That the average shot caller is just as bad, if not worse, than the average pug, and should be ignored basically on principle? Especially when, by your own admission, there were two people making calls?



I feel like I'm missing something?

He probably wanted to do some sort of "advanced tactic" of hiding an entire team in the corner of the map and "surprising" a mech when the other team searches for them. Much fun, much wow.

[Scyther]

Trying something new is fine. Expecting a pug team who has no idea if you are a pro or a potato to follow you is wishful thinking. Assuming that the one guy who agreed with/supported you is 'an experienced guy obviously' is more wishful thinking.

Unorganized, random strangers in a match do the same things over and over because it's the one pattern they can sometimes rely on their team to follow. Path of least resistance and all.

Splitting a random pug team with a 'surprise!' strategy generally leads to team wipes and tears. OTOH, no harm in trying things out, it's not like puppies get sacrificed with every loss or anything.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Inatu Elimor, on 18 February 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

= Important tactic on the battlefield.
Now take the Crimson map. QP. Battle is either tunnel or saddle. How boring, how predictable... Why always those two spots ?
I did a test. I made a call to group: unite G8, take cover position, be patient for the enemy to come, focus fire etc... Luckily one of the team mates took over as lead so I was assured of at least some support (he was an experienced guy obviously). Now what could go wrong?
Well this:

- only 3 guys out of 12 sticking to the plan
- the rest rushing in on far away enemy arrival, leaving G8 only for the faithfull 3
-group entirely dispersed
-enemy rolling over and laughing.

A bad call ? I don' t think so... Not going to blame people on their inabillity of listening or lack of patience, or myself employing bad tactics , but so much more could have been done in MWO strategically wise...

I plea for new, fresh and original tactics !

Daggett, on 18 February 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

You can't expect advanced stuff from pugs, this rarely works for several reasons.
If you want tactics you need to get competitive and join a decent unit.

I may a Tier 5 guy but on Crimson I could call plays and win. The team who has patience and holds without suicidal Leroy Jenkins charges can win.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

Bombast, on 18 February 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

Should know what? That the average shot caller is just as bad, if not worse, than the average pug, and should be ignored basically on principle? Especially when, by your own admission, there were two people making calls?



I feel like I'm missing something?

F7 has a high position that you can shoot down onto the pass. however it can only support about 2-3 mechs in that space.
D6 has a small gap that you can access from c6 that a good jump mech can get up to and shoot down onto E5 and F5. I often find dual er-large spider using this spot for easy damage.

[Bombast]

A Really Old Clan Dude, on 18 February 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

F7 has a high position that you can shoot down onto the pass. however it can only support about 2-3 mechs in that space.
D6 has a small gap that you can access from c6 that a good jump mech can get up to and shoot down onto E5 and F5. I often find dual er-large spider using this spot for easy damage.

That's not what he said though. He said G8.

There's a significant problem with that grid square..

[UnofficialOperator]

[Deathlike]

Outside of the bug and RIP Old Forest Colony - there's your hint.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Bombast, on 18 February 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

That's not what he said though. He said G8.

There's a significant problem with that grid square..

Deathlike caught that G8 is out of bounds, ie.not a good place to be.

[Escef]

There's this lovely saying in the Army: Be wrong together.

Because if everyone is doing the same wrong thing it has a better chance of working than everyone being wrong in their own unique way.

In the OP's example, his little party of three did the wrong thing by not supporting the other nine guys on the team. If you put forth a plan, and only two guys want to follow it, then you abandon the plan and go with the group. Or at the least, ask what people are willing to do, since they obviously don't like your plan. Because no one has authority in a solo queue PUG match, you can't force people to obey your plan... And as often as I get frustrated with directionless campers and wander off to look for an attack angle, I at least usually wait until the team has proven they have an utter lack of aggression. What the OP did was convince two other guys to camp while the rest of the team engaged. That's the wrong answer.

And this is said while giving the OP the benefit of the doubt about the grid coordinates, just assuming he brainfarted and meant some other grid. (And if it really was G8... Dear gawds, why would you try to get the team to camp a grid that's 90% out of bounds?)

[Inatu Elimor]

Escef, on 18 February 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:

There's this lovely saying in the Army: Be wrong together.

Because if everyone is doing the same wrong thing it has a better chance of working than everyone being wrong in their own unique way.

In the OP's example, his little party of three did the wrong thing by not supporting the other nine guys on the team. If you put forth a plan, and only two guys want to follow it, then you abandon the plan and go with the group. Or at the least, ask what people are willing to do, since they obviously don't like your plan. Because no one has authority in a solo queue PUG match, you can't force people to obey your plan... And as often as I get frustrated with directionless campers and wander off to look for an attack angle, I at least usually wait until the team has proven they have an utter lack of aggression. What the OP did was convince two other guys to camp while the rest of the team engaged. That's the wrong answer.

And this is said while giving the OP the benefit of the doubt about the grid coordinates, just assuming he brainfarted and meant some other grid. (And if it really was G8... Dear gawds, why would you try to get the team to camp a grid that's 90% out of bounds?)

It was D8, not G8. Sorry.

Edited by Inatu Elimor, 19 February 2018 - 03:49 AM.

[r4zen]

Inatu Elimor, on 19 February 2018 - 03:48 AM, said:

It was D8, not G8. Sorry.

Yeah, hiding in the dropzone is never gonna fly.

[Bombast]

Inatu Elimor, on 19 February 2018 - 03:48 AM, said:

It was D8, not G8. Sorry.

Camping spawn.

That's not much better than walking out of bounds.

[Spare Parts Bin]

You know the enemy will do one of 2 things. Hit the Saddle or Tunnel Rush. Be under the platform and ready for either or both.

Honestly there are few spots on this map that are a real surprise.