718 replies to this topic

[ramp4ge]

Piranhas aren't the issue. They're an extreme example of the issue but nerfing the Piranha won't resolve the issue. The issue is the ridiculously high crit rate of MGs. Which is why even using a Nova S with 4 MGs you can take down pretty much any mech in literally a few seconds. Being stripped clean of all of your equipment in a matter of seconds isn't fun gameplay for anyone who's not the one doing it.

I also agree that collision damage is wonky at best. It should be tonnage-based. A Piranha 'hugging' a Direwhale should be pretty much stepped on and run over with minimal damage. You shouldn't be able to continually collide (which is what hugging is...) with an object 4 times your tonnage and not take significant damage from that. I do believe that collision damage should be a viable weapon. It'd also give us some kind of melee. Rapidly torso-twisting a shield arm into an enemy (damage to the enemy/yourself depending on tonnage) and actually doing damage would be a really neat mechanic. And it'd be a reason to actually have hand actuators..

[LordNothing]

Metus regem, on 28 February 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

Here is a random thought, put more than 2 points of armour on your back....

i run as much as 10 points on some of my fatter, slower assaults. this gives me enough early warning to deal with the light. this of course is not necessary on faster assaults.

[ramp4ge]

Even 10 armor is half a burn for 2 heavy medium lasers. Then the MGs start plinking and the component's gone in a matter of seconds.

The worst part about the MG crit rate is that it's not even skill-based. It's RNG.

Edited by ramp4ge, 28 February 2018 - 10:52 AM.

[Spheroid]

Listen Piranha pilots undertake their mission at extreme personal risk. The mechs are paper. Generally the attacks come later in the match.

Your mech, your life is disposible in the pursuit of victory. If the attack against you came early and you died it was because of poor positioning and if you die latter so what? Did you not accomplish anything of note before death?

I feel your mindset is flawed. If you want to live longer perhaps take a more mobile mech.

Edited by Spheroid, 28 February 2018 - 08:55 PM.

[LordNothing]

ramp4ge, on 28 February 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

Even 10 armor is half a burn for 2 heavy medium lasers. Then the MGs start plinking and the component's gone in a matter of seconds.

The worst part about the MG crit rate is that it's not even skill-based. It's RNG.

its not meant to take a full alpha. i can twist off a good portion of the burn. it just buys me a few fractions of a second reaction time. situational awareness not included. if you are ignoring your radar, your damage indicators, your seismo, you are going to not see it coming and die. its also useless against wolfpacks. your best defence against lights is your team.

Edited by LordNothing, 28 February 2018 - 11:02 AM.

[Mystere]

The GaussFather, on 28 February 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

1 on 1 you might have a chance if they don't leg hug and backstab, if its 2 lights on 1 assault forget it. Game over.

I wonder how this person would feel about the light wolfpack terrors of long ago.

Metus regem, on 28 February 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

Here is a random thought, put more than 2 points of armour on your back....

And move away from the "monkey see, monkey do" meta-whoring load outs?

No siree! It's so much easier to run to the forums.

[ramp4ge]

Full burn for 2 heavy mediums is 20 damage. 2 half burns is 10 damage, and the half burn is 0.75 seconds unskilled. Even less with the laser duration skills (I think that's how those work? Speeds up the "ticks" and shortens the burn duration?). So with good crit RNG (which increases with more MGs and faster ROFs), even with 10 rear armor, you could lose a side torso in 1-1.5 seconds.

[HGAK47]

Fatty flab mechs.

I really hate it when you big boys one shot my Locust off the field but this is the nature of the game. When in a light I hate you flabs, when in a flabmech I hate everyone....

On a slightly more serious note, like others have said, push your back into a wall and try your best to kill the lights. Use target spotted command to see them on your minimap and to keep track, use arm weapons to shoot low. Use siesmic sensors to see them ping up locally on your minimap too.

Aim for lights legs from the get go unless you are assured of a one touch kill on a CT or rear ST. Remember for IS lights, most of us run XL`s and a measly few points of armour seperate us from a fiery destruction.

Once you have spent time in both lights and assaults you will know that its not always easy on either side of the coin.

[LordNothing]

ramp4ge, on 28 February 2018 - 11:02 AM, said:

Full burn for 2 heavy mediums is 20 damage. 2 half burns is 10 damage, and the half burn is 0.75 seconds unskilled. Even less with the laser duration skills (I think that's how those work? Speeds up the "ticks" and shortens the burn duration?). So with good crit RNG (which increases with more MGs and faster ROFs), even with 10 rear armor, you could lose a side torso in 1-1.5 seconds.

its a risk im willing to take. more often than not i can twist off and land a crippling blow on the squirrel to either scare him off or take him out. i dont need a full second, i just need my brain to register the flash and muscle memory to kick in an initiate a torso twist. many squirrel pilots will bug out if they think they bit off more than they can chew. so make yourself a hard kill. again if you arent paying attention, you will die. you have to be super alert when you drop in a slow assault.

Edited by LordNothing, 28 February 2018 - 11:13 AM.

[HammerMaster]

The GaussFather, on 28 February 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

So you are in your assault mech... and suddenly you hear a million (?) machine gun rounds hitting your back, you turn to shoot the attacker and can't see it because its hugging your leg because of PGIs flawed view from the cockpit and/or scaling.

So you move, and the Piranha or similar light (though Piranha is SO much more lethal for its size) moves up again so you can't see it and being faster it can almost always win.

Piranhas exploit a bad game design and in the few matches I was playing last night they had the majority of the kills. They are like a little buzz saw and aptly named.

Between the leg hugging, lag, and bad hit reg we are experiencing its damn hard to shoot them if they are moving even with lasers. Its like they have 3x the armor for their weight class.

On the hit reg... several times I'm shooting with Gauss rifles and they PASS THROUGH THE TARGET without a hit! No red reticle... OMG how can hit reg be getting worse as the game evolves??

So I'm thinking the QP game is not fun anymore unless you are light pilot... I gave up on FP a long time ago... couldn't stand waiting so long for a match and then get stomped by competitive teams of meta builds.

I know many people will say I'm whining but I basically grew up on MW games -- played all of them included Crescent Hawks Revenge on my Apple IIc.

I'm cool with a good light pilot being able to take down an Atlas -- but not by using all the exploits that this game is turned into where lights with machine guns are now the killer meta. Its killed the fun of piloting a "mighty robot" into battle with 30th Century "futuristic weapons" when you have to fear the 20 ton killing machines with weapons from the 20th century!

1 on 1 you might have a chance if they don't leg hug and backstab, if its 2 lights on 1 assault forget it. Game over.

Anyone else tired of the rinse and repeat Piranha attacks going on in QP? Or am I just a grumpy old guy who likes a fair game and enjoys piloting big robots with futuristic weapons?

Blame Paul dragon bowling.
Back then an uppity light wouldn't face/butt hug. I personally reversed over many commandos and Jenner's. Also clotheslining with a fast HBK if they didn't unass the area. (Since these are scouts/harrassers not "tankkillers"). I also killed a downed commando by stepping on it's back. Awesome. Light piloting required better situational awareness of terrain and friendly/enemy mechs.
So again. Paul.

Edited by HammerMaster, 28 February 2018 - 11:20 AM.

[Dogstar]

Two Words: Arm Lock

Seriously though have you tried unlocking your arms and maybe pointing them down to shoot? Maybe not boat 4 gauss rifles and take some smaller, arm mounted weaponry in order to deal with lighter mechs?

[Quandoo]

I play both. Never seen 1500 dmg with a light but often with assaults.
It's only OP if you don't play properly in team or have no streaks or can't aim.

I love to kill lights with gauss

Edited by Quandoo, 28 February 2018 - 11:47 AM.

[Variant1]

the piranha has barely any armor and will most likely have 3 tons of ammo for 12 mgs. Thats the only thing its good at is flanking and hit and run tactics. i dont see how the piranha is op considering machine guns arent even that strong. Get a teamate to watch your back and always stick with the group

[TWIAFU]

The GaussFather, on 28 February 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

Anyone else tired of the rinse and repeat Piranha attacks going on in QP? Or am I just a grumpy old guy who likes a fair game and enjoys piloting big robots with futuristic weapons?

Grumpy.

And fair? Really? Exploits? Really?

[Christophe Ivanov]

Just two days ago this happened in one of the matches I was in. The piranha mech in question killed 5 or 6 of us. The mech had nothing but heavy machineguns and was killing Assaults, Heavies as well.
As for me, I was against a wall, I just simply could no aim my guns down and inward as he was truly a nut hugger! I did get off some laser fire, and maybe one Gauss shot, but again to no effect as he was already up against my mech. I know how it is as one of my Black Lanners has 6X machineguns and have seen the stupid destructive power for such a light weapon.

While I was not happy about the loss I got, it's simple the Piranha pilot knew what he was doing and exploited a weakness in the game. I highly doubted in real life a heavy machinegun would do such damage to this type of armor. So PGI? Why did you even implement this into the game? I hear it's not even part of lore? So why?

Beyond that, if your gonna do it, DO IT RIGHT.

[ANOM O MECH]

Remove crit chance for when a mech has >4 of them and call it a day.

[The GaussFather]

N0ni, on 28 February 2018 - 09:12 AM, said:

Light mech starts shooting your back -> stick your butt against a rock or solid piece of geometry -> watch as the light can't shoot your back anymore. The only thing you'll have to worry about at that point is the nascar brigade.

I know that tactic but on some maps or situations its not possible to do that. Not only that but it just reinforces the "poke and shoot" mentality of PUG matches if you put your assault next the wall and don't move it

TWIAFU, on 28 February 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

Grumpy.

And fair? Really? Exploits? Really?

So leg humping isn't an exploit? I can't even see the mech to return fire. Kinda lame game mechanic

tker 669, on 28 February 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

Remove crit chance for when a mech has >4 of them and call it a day.

Great idea!

[Zergling]

I'm not having much problem with Piranha or any other lights.

Like, one game I had the other week in my Warhawk; I had 3 Piranha come at me through a choke point after they'd killed 2 teammates (both passive assault players that failed to watch their minimap).
I blapped one with ER PPCs in the CT for kill, and watched amused as the MG fire from the remaining two did little against my armor as I continued to back up.
I then crippled a second Piranha, which tried to take cover before being finished by teammates (for a KMDD assist).

After that, the third Piranha went 'NOPE!' and ran away.


Lights aren't that scary; you just have to not get caught alone by multiple lights where they get hit your rear.

Edited by Zergling, 28 February 2018 - 12:28 PM.

[BrunoSSace]

Use a defensive UAV. Pop it when you are in trouble. Why? Cause then people will see a light mech hugging an Assult and they should come and help you. They can't help you if you are all by yourself faraway from the rest of the team or if you have LRMs. Most of the time people will help you, dont cry about it in voice chat or local. It annoys most people.

Failing that bring streaks and an UAV. The light will leave or die. End of the day its a game dont get your nickers up in a not. Have a nice day.

[Variant1]

ramp4ge, on 28 February 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

Piranhas aren't the issue. They're an extreme example of the issue but nerfing the Piranha won't resolve the issue. The issue is the ridiculously high crit rate of MGs. Which is why even using a Nova S with 4 MGs you can take down pretty much any mech in literally a few seconds. Being stripped clean of all of your equipment in a matter of seconds isn't fun gameplay for anyone who's not the one doing it.

I also agree that collision damage is wonky at best. It should be tonnage-based. A Piranha 'hugging' a Direwhale should be pretty much stepped on and run over with minimal damage. You shouldn't be able to continually collide (which is what hugging is...) with an object 4 times your tonnage and not take significant damage from that. I do believe that collision damage should be a viable weapon. It'd also give us some kind of melee. Rapidly torso-twisting a shield arm into an enemy (damage to the enemy/yourself depending on tonnage) and actually doing damage would be a really neat mechanic. And it'd be a reason to actually have hand actuators..

mgs are supose to have high crit rate becuase their damage is so low, if a mech is losing all the internal then that means its already lost its armor from fighting against weapons taht can strip it not the mgs. The mgs are more of a finisher than an op boating weapon not to mention the short range they have. as for melee and tonnage no, dire shoudl not step on dire what needs to happen is a teamate should come help out or they should make it so you can shoot off mechs that get way too close