718 replies to this topic

[Gristle Missile]

https://youtu.be/paARW9xs2nY?t=10m55s
Watch this vid of a Piranha face tanking a supernova and completely solo killing it with just MG damage

Edited by Gristle Missile, 14 March 2018 - 02:53 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Throe, on 14 March 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:

This is really the main reason Assaults have been deprecated in Quick Play for some time. It's got more to do with engine desync than it does with the Piranha. The only thing the Piranha has changed is that it's more important to stay with your team now, which Assaults have always been pretty **** at, especially when you're in Quick Play and your team is trying to qualify for the pole position at Daytona.

The engine desync was a good and bad thing. Great for the Heavies and Assaults because they literally moved and danced like a Russian ballerina, and were more agile than some lights and mediums. When King crab can face his rear arc in less than 2 seconds there is a problem. It was also a bad thing because it screwed my Jenners.

Gristle Missile, on 14 March 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

https://youtu.be/paARW9xs2nY?t=10m55s
Watch this vid of a Piranha face tanking a supernova and completely solo killing it with just MG damage

I hate to tell you this but that video actually proves you had a good light pilot vs a bad supernova pilot. First off the piranha had a flamer on the nova at all times he was fighting him. Also the nova alphaed once, which subsequently threw his heat up and was then forced to single fire his weapons. Even doing so, still managed to spread his damage ALL OVER the piranha instead of focusing on his legs, or even a side torso. Also the nova had several shots into the walls and surrounding buildings.

All this video proves is the skill difference which calls for most lights to be thought of as OP. An example that happened a year or so ago in my OXIDE



Granted one of my earilier videos and I apologize for the 3D lettrs but you will get the drift.

This video shows how good light pilots capitalize on the mistakes of other pilots

Edited by Darian DelFord, 14 March 2018 - 03:14 PM.

[Imperius]

Darian DelFord, on 14 March 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

The engine desync was a good and bad thing. Great for the Heavies and Assaults because they literally moved and danced like a Russian ballerina, and were more agile than some lights and mediums. When King crab can face his rear arc in less than 2 seconds there is a problem. It was also a bad thing because it screwed my Jenners.






I hate to tell you this but that video actually proves you had a good light pilot vs a bad supernova pilot. First off the piranha had a flamer on the nova at all times he was fighting him. Also the nova alphaed once, which subsequently threw his heat up and was then forced to single fire his weapons. Even doing so, still managed to spread his damage ALL OVER the piranha instead of focusing on his legs, or even a side torso. Also the nova had several shots into the walls and surrounding buildings.

All this video proves is the skill difference which calls for most lights to be thought of as OP. An example that happened a year or so ago in my OXIDE



Granted one of my earilier videos and I apologize for the 3D lettrs but you will get the drift.

This video shows how good light pilots capitalize on the mistakes of other pilots

Disagree 100% all mechs should be able to turn and shoot, the limitation is supposed to be oh far they can turn before they have to turn their legs.

It’s absolutely bad balance in an FPS to remove a persons ability to track and aim.

I mean where are knockdowns and proper collisions to stop lights when the run into things? Aka bad piloting!

Edited by Imperius, 14 March 2018 - 04:13 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Imperius, on 14 March 2018 - 04:09 PM, said:

Disagree 100% all mechs should be able to turn and shoot the limitation is supposed to be oh far they can turn beforehand have to turn their legs.

It’s absolutely bad balance in an FPS to remove a persons ability to track and aim.

I mean where are knockdowns and proper collisions to stop lights when the run into things? Aka bad piloting!

Your making no sense there or maybe I am misunderstanding you.

Currently ALL mechs can turn and shoot and ARE limited in their torso twist based on the chasis they are piloting. Collision has been wonky in this game since day one and does need to be addressed however that is a dead horse. The ability to track and aim is still very much in the game, again based on the chasis that you have. A timber can track better than a stalker so forth and so on

[Imperius]

Darian DelFord, on 14 March 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

Your making no sense there or maybe I am misunderstanding you.

Currently ALL mechs can turn and shoot and ARE limited in their torso twist based on the chasis they are piloting. Collision has been wonky in this game since day one and does need to be addressed however that is a dead horse. The ability to track and aim is still very much in the game, again based on the chasis that you have. A timber can track better than a stalker so forth and so on

After the engine deccopling this wasn’t true. The base level of tracking should never be lower than the speed of the mechs movement. Again the limitation was assaults couldn’t turn as far without turning their legs. That was acceptable.

Unless you are going to add the other systems to keep lights “fair” like collisions and knockdowns. Then you shouldn’t add hill climb and engine decoupling.

Absolutely garbage.

[Darian DelFord]

Imperius, on 14 March 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

After the engine deccopling this wasn’t true. The base level of tracking should never be lower than the speed of the mechs movement. Again the limitation was assaults couldn’t turn as far without turning their legs. That was acceptable.

Unless you are going to add the other systems to keep lights “fair” like collisions and knockdowns. Then you shouldn’t add hill climb and engine decoupling.

Absolutely garbage.

Oh I see what your saying, your kodiak is not a nimble as it once was after the decoupling which prior to that decoupling could be Simba at Disney's The Lion King on ice as that how nimble they were. Now that they actually turn like they are 100 ton mechs and not 35 ton mechs, you have not adjusted yet..... Gotcha.

[razenWing]

Darian DelFord, on 14 March 2018 - 04:41 PM, said:

Oh I see what your saying, your kodiak is not a nimble as it once was after the decoupling which prior to that decoupling could be Simba at Disney's The Lion King on ice as that how nimble they were. Now that they actually turn like they are 100 ton mechs and not 35 ton mechs, you have not adjusted yet..... Gotcha.

Right, cause we all remembered how Kodiak was like a ballerina. Right...

Get real dood, Kodiak had enough agility to beat an Atlas, but it was no where close to "dancing" with a 35 tonner. Now, it can't even out dance an Atlas, which it was DESIGNED TO DO. So no, no part of your sentence was remotely accurate.

[Imperius]

Darian DelFord, on 14 March 2018 - 04:41 PM, said:

Oh I see what your saying, your kodiak is not a nimble as it once was after the decoupling which prior to that decoupling could be Simba at Disney's The Lion King on ice as that how nimble they were. Now that they actually turn like they are 100 ton mechs and not 35 ton mechs, you have not adjusted yet..... Gotcha.

Actually it was the Dire Wolf but nice try assuming stuff? Adapted to what? Poor design? Sure I still kill things but it doesn’t mean it’s not a problem that has been ignored for a very very long time. Go ahead and look up my stats. Season 13 was pretty much the last time I played and I’m pretty sure that was when the MK II finally came out.

Think about a Tier 5 potatoe since they’re so important (see paul crap position on LRM’s)

So let’s say your new and the Dire Wolf just speaks to you it your kinda mech. You go though the trouble of the absolutely worst new user experience I have ever seen in a game. You finally get enough c-bills to buy it and customize it. You’re now broke and you no longer have a cadet bonus.

It’s your first drop in this mech you wanted (payed out the *** for) you’re not good but you understand basic things. Your following your team but they’re slowly pulling away from you. You hit a hill now they’ve left you in the dust. Suddenly a light mech shows up and you’re all alone, but wait you’re not to bad of a shot it’s not your first FPS. You start trying to track them...huh weird you can’t. Suddenly thery’re behind you and you didn’t know to put your back against the wall. You can’t turn enough you relize you have to move your legs too! That also doesn’t work you still can’t turn quite fast enough. Boom you die. This game sucks you say to yourself. You picked the wrong mech and now you’re stuck with it.

And the new steam user goes mild writes a bad review and drops the free to play game.

Absolutely amazing balance ideas. *Golf clap*

Edited by Imperius, 14 March 2018 - 05:09 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

razenWing, on 14 March 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

Right, cause we all remembered how Kodiak was like a ballerina. Right...

Get real dood, Kodiak had enough agility to beat an Atlas, but it was no where close to "dancing" with a 35 tonner. Now, it can't even out dance an Atlas, which it was DESIGNED TO DO. So no, no part of your sentence was remotely accurate.

Prior to the decoupling, most assault could pull a 180 in less than 2 seconds, and trying to stay in the rear arc of an assault, except for a select few, was damn near impossible by the time the Kodiak was released. I suggest you actually research a bit before you come here and think I am off my facts. I have been fighting lights are OP thread since the game went into beta. And the majority of the time, the reason the assault died was due to piloting error that the light took advantage of. Granted Hit Reg and collision did some weird things back in the day. But as evidenced by the video that was provided, I showed it was not the OP mech, but a pilot who knew how to capitalize on the mistakes of the heavier mech.

[Imperius]

Darian DelFord, on 14 March 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

Prior to the decoupling, most assault could pull a 180 in less than 2 seconds, and trying to stay in the rear arc of an assault, except for a select few, was damn near impossible by the time the Kodiak was released. I suggest you actually research a bit before you come here and think I am off my facts. I have been fighting lights are OP thread since the game went into beta. And the majority of the time, the reason the assault died was due to piloting error that the light took advantage of. Granted Hit Reg and collision did some weird things back in the day. But as evidenced by the video that was provided, I showed it was not the OP mech, but a pilot who knew how to capitalize on the mistakes of the heavier mech.

Good that how it should have stayed! Your job is not to go toe to toe with an assault, it’s supposed to be harass, pick off, and use terrain. Not sum terrabad n00b circle run into everything strat but it doesn’t effect you because the game lacks proper systems. I was ok with collisions stopping lights when they ran into stuff...that was a fun two weeks where the real light mechs pilots were known.

Edited by Imperius, 14 March 2018 - 05:18 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Imperius, on 14 March 2018 - 05:04 PM, said:

Actually it was the Dire Wolf but nice try assuming stuff? Adapted to what? Poor design? Sure I still kill things but it doesn’t mean it’s not a problem that has been ignored for a very very long time. Go ahead and look up my stats. Season 13 was pretty much the last time I played and I’m pretty sure that was when the MK II finally came out.

Think about a Tier 5 potatoe since they’re so important (see paul crap position on LRM’s)

So let’s say your new and the Dire Wolf just speaks to you it your kinda mech. You go though the trouble of the absolutely worst new user experience I have ever seen in a game. You finally get enough c-bills to buy it and customize it. You’re now broke and you no longer have a cadet bonus.

It’s your first drop in this mech you wanted (payed out the *** for) you’re not good but you understand basic things. Your following your team but they’re slowly pulling away from you. You hit a hill now they’ve left you in the dust. Suddenly a light mech shows up and you’re all alone, but wait you’re not to bad of a shot it’s not your first FPS. You start trying to track them...huh weird you can’t. Suddenly thery’re behind you and you didn’t know to put your back against the wall. You can’t turn enough you relize you have to move your legs too! That also doesn’t work you still can’t turn quite fast enough. Boom you die. This game sucks you say to yourself. You picked the wrong mech and now you’re stuck with it.

And the new steam user goes mild writes a bad review and drops the free to play game.

Absolutely amazing balance ideas. *Golf clap*

Could you cherry pick any more of a situation?

Firstly I agree, if you look up a few posts there are 3 Assault mechs that can not twist like the others, the Whale is one of those, the Stalker and the Warhawk. No arguments. However the engine decoupling really did not change mucn on how far they could twist, it was crap to begin with, it merely affected how quickly

Secondly, in the scenario you are describing, you are in an assault mech with KNOWN twisting issues, as well as your team left you alone. I am sorry but you are the perfect target for a light mech. They should eat you alive.

Thirdly, what you are describing is a perfect description of a common problem in QP NO MATTER your Tier.

Again this does not make a light mech OP.

Imperius, on 14 March 2018 - 05:17 PM, said:

Good that how it should have stayed! Your job is not to go toe to toe with an assault, it’s supposed to be harass, pick off, and use terrain. Not sum terrabad n00b circle run into everything strat but it doesn’t effect you because the game lacks proper systems. I was ok with collisions stopping lights when they ran into stuff...that was a fun two weeks where the real light mechs pilots were known.

I am sorry but assaults are prime bait for lights if alone. If you have a light that is circle jerking you, then you my friend are a horrid shot. Any light that gets in front of an assault, is an idiot and will die accordingly. Unless your like the last match I was in where the Timber was ticked because his arm lock was on and he could not target the lights just under the reticule.

[Imperius]

My gripe is how quickly any of them could turn should not have been touched!

Lights are still fast! The whale was already known for not even being able to torso twist. Just shows the balance guy really has no grasp on the game. Ammo still hasn’t been scaled from 12v12. I’m sure we still have many other glaring issues.

I mean look I really don’t even care unless 8v8 comes back I’m not. The balance positions have always been hypocritical trash.

Darian DelFord, on 14 March 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

Could you cherry pick any more of a situation?

Firstly I agree, if you look up a few posts there are 3 Assault mechs that can not twist like the others, the Whale is one of those, the Stalker and the Warhawk. No arguments. However the engine decoupling really did not change mucn on how far they could twist, it was crap to begin with, it merely affected how quickly

Secondly, in the scenario you are describing, you are in an assault mech with KNOWN twisting issues, as well as your team left you alone. I am sorry but you are the perfect target for a light mech. They should eat you alive.

Thirdly, what you are describing is a perfect description of a common problem in QP NO MATTER your Tier.

Again this does not make a light mech OP.




I am sorry but assaults are prime bait for lights if alone. If you have a light that is circle jerking you, then you my friend are a horrid shot. Any light that gets in front of an assault, is an idiot and will die accordingly. Unless your like the last match I was in where the Timber was ticked because his arm lock was on and he could not target the lights just under the reticule.

Thanks for half reading what I typed. Have a great day!

[Darian DelFord]

See if you can spot the errors that these assault mechs make fighting me



4:35



This will prove my point, skill is OP

Imperius, on 14 March 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

Thanks for half reading what I typed. Have a great day!

NO I think I read it quite well, and countered every point you were tryin to make.... and I agree I want 8V8 back

[kuma8877]

Imperius, on 14 March 2018 - 05:04 PM, said:

Actually it was the Dire Wolf but nice try assuming stuff? Adapted to what? Poor design? Sure I still kill things but it doesn’t mean it’s not a problem that has been ignored for a very very long time. Go ahead and look up my stats. Season 13 was pretty much the last time I played and I’m pretty sure that was when the MK II finally came out.

Think about a Tier 5 potatoe since they’re so important (see paul crap position on LRM’s)

So let’s say your new and the Dire Wolf just speaks to you it your kinda mech. You go though the trouble of the absolutely worst new user experience I have ever seen in a game. You finally get enough c-bills to buy it and customize it. You’re now broke and you no longer have a cadet bonus.

It’s your first drop in this mech you wanted (payed out the *** for) you’re not good but you understand basic things. Your following your team but they’re slowly pulling away from you. You hit a hill now they’ve left you in the dust. Suddenly a light mech shows up and you’re all alone, but wait you’re not to bad of a shot it’s not your first FPS. You start trying to track them...huh weird you can’t. Suddenly thery’re behind you and you didn’t know to put your back against the wall. You can’t turn enough you relize you have to move your legs too! That also doesn’t work you still can’t turn quite fast enough. Boom you die. This game sucks you say to yourself. You picked the wrong mech and now you’re stuck with it.

And the new steam user goes mild writes a bad review and drops the free to play game.

Absolutely amazing balance ideas. *Golf clap*

Your scenario has little to do with balance, as evidenced by flipping the tables. Had the same pilot chosen the cheap end of the scale and kitted out a locust or spider and finds he keeps getting obliterated in just a few salvo's (if it even takes more than 1) due to not understanding his chosen chassis yet or proper light movement in general. What then? That's fairly NPE specific over any kind of real balance issue.

Edited by kuma8877, 14 March 2018 - 05:44 PM.

[Imperius]

Darian DelFord, on 14 March 2018 - 05:41 PM, said:

See if you can spot the errors that these assault mechs make fighting me



4:35



This will prove my point, skill is OP




NO I think I read it quite well, and countered every point you were tryin to make.... and I agree I want 8V8 back

Pretty sure I described a new player experience and you somehow thought it was mine... like dude... this game has never been hard for me. Just the stupid balance choices are so frustrating bad I can’t stand it most the time.

[Imperius]

kuma8877, on 14 March 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

Your scenario has little to do with balance, as evidenced by flipping the tables. Had the same pilot chosen the cheap end of the scale and kitted out a locust or spider and finds he keeps getting obliterated in just a few salvo's (if it even takes more than 1) due to not understanding his chosen chassis yet or proper light movement in general. What then? That's fairly NPE specific over any kind of real balance issue.

Yes it’s an edge case scenario. So are LRM’s being op because cover and line of sight is hard. At least you read it correctly.

Like I said I’m not trying to change balance. I had a talk with the guy. Not worth the time wasting my breath. If your idea is to add or nerf things and leave the opposite side untouched for months/years, or never even add those counter systems to make things fair, while also being locked behind Paul’s micro change theory. The game won’t be remotely playable for the next 5 years if the balance path was even correct.

Again I still kill lights all the time. I’m an edge case too. I still see the flaws in the changes that were made. I’ll never try to bring a new friend into this game. I respect them more than that. Sucks too because battletech and the community for the most part are awesome.

[Darian DelFord]

Imperius, on 14 March 2018 - 05:55 PM, said:

Yes it’s an edge case scenario. So are LRM’s being op because cover and line of sight is hard. At least you read it correctly.

Like I said I’m not trying to change balance. I had a talk with the guy. Not worth the time wasting my breath. If your idea is to add or nerf things and leave the opposite side untouched for months/years, or never even add those counter systems to make things fair, while also being locked behind Paul’s micro change theory. The game won’t be remotely playable for the next 5 years if the balance path was even correct.

Again I still kill lights all the time. I’m an edge case too. I still see the flaws in the changes that were made. I’ll never try to bring a new friend into this game. I respect them more than that. Sucks too because battletech and the community for the most part are awesome.

YOu do realize that Lights are by and far the most nerfed chassis in the game due to "edge cases" right?

If they were so OP and everything slighted towards them, why are the %'s in the crapper?

Edited by Darian DelFord, 14 March 2018 - 06:13 PM.

[Yosharian]

I mean I've taken out my fair share of assaults while in a light but I wouldn't say that it's a given that a light beats an assault when no other mechs are involved.

In my games assault pilots are generally quite good players and know how to use their limited mobility to keep lights if not in their reticle then out of their backs. And if you can't get a back, then you're looking at a side torso or legging him, which is doable but if you make some mistakes an assault alpha will wreck you.

This is even assuming you can get an assault alone which generally doesn't happen in my games, I'll get maybe 10 seconds at most before another enemy comes to assist.

I'd be the first to admit that light brawling is absolutely not my strong suit but that's not the point. I just don't think it's as cut and dry as 'any assault caught by a light alone is gg'd'. (Maybe if it's a Dire Wolf, I guess)

What's more likely is that light will force you to stop, turn, return fire, maneuver, etc, anything but carry on moving forward towards where your team is, which will in turn result in you getting caught out by the rest of the enemy's light pack, or mediums, or even the entire force. That's what I see, more often than this 1v1 duel of assault vs light; the assault gets bogged down dealing with the light, which results in it being out of position when the rest of the enemies arrive.

Also lights can perform other roles which can **** up an assault's day, like flanking from a distance with long-range weapons.

Edited by Yosharian, 14 March 2018 - 06:22 PM.

[Imperius]

Obviously that not true or this thread wouldn’t exists.

You’re part of the have you cake and eat it too crowd.

Add collision and knockdowns and you can keep your hill climb and engine decoupling. Oh wait the engine sucks and they refuse to program that stuff in... so hill climb and engine decoupling never should have happened either.

As I said it’s a waste of time. Trust me you won’t receive any nerfs that hurt your baby. Otherwise I wouldn’t be bringing up stuff I said back in 2013. Obviously the engine decoupling was recent and magnified why the issue is getting worse.

Yosharian, on 14 March 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

I mean I've taken out my fair share of assaults while in a light but I wouldn't say that it's a given that a light beats an assault when no other mechs are involved.

In my games assault pilots are generally quite good players and know how to use their limited mobility to keep lights if not in their reticle then out of their backs. And if you can't get a back, then you're looking at a side torso or legging him, which is doable but if you make some mistakes an assault alpha will wreck you.

This is even assuming you can get an assault alone which generally doesn't happen in my games, I'll get maybe 10 seconds at most before another enemy comes to assist.

I'd be the first to admit that light brawling is absolutely not my strong suit but that's not the point. I just don't think it's as cut and dry as 'any assault caught by a light alone is gg'd'. (Maybe if it's a Dire Wolf, I guess)

What's more likely is that light will force you to stop, turn, return fire, maneuver, etc, anything but carry on moving forward towards where your team is, which will in turn result in you getting caught out by the rest of the enemy's light pack, or mediums, or even the entire force. That's what I see, more often than this 1v1 duel of assault vs light; the assault gets bogged down dealing with the light, which results in it being out of position when the rest of the enemies arrive.

Also lights can perform other roles which can **** up an assault's day, like flanking from a distance with long-range weapons.

I’m arguing about at the Tier 5 level because remember that’s how we balance. Check my stats season 13 I have no issues.

[PocketYoda]

Darian DelFord, on 14 March 2018 - 07:27 AM, said:

That right there is the major problem and where most calls to nerf lights come from. The QP matches where the LRM assault with 2 ML's is in the backfield and then gets eaten alive by a light or group of them.

As a dedicated light mech, the moment I register a SRM or SSRM build, I avoid that mech like the plague.

I do not ever use those stupid builds and i still get eaten alive, pretty sure these defenders know there is a problem but are using them so they must defend them.