67 replies to this topic

[Anjian]

Torso twist should not be a problem. For example, see the lore Nova.

\

No torso twist. But the MWO Nova fixes that.




No problem at all.





A quad should be able to torso twist. And side step. And elevate the torso up and down to clear over shooting obstacles or reduce its profile. The one thing we can't expect it to do well is to run fast though.

[Pariah Devalis]

Anjian, on 17 March 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

Torso twist should not be a problem. For example, see the lore Nova.

*record scratch*

Wait wait wait... hold up.

Lore Nova had torso twist. The art was not designed by the same people who made the rules. Per the rules, lore Nova could torso twist juuuust fine.

Quads could not. Can not. Do not torso twist. Just like how bipeds cannot side step. Quads can side step and are more stable platforms that can lose three legs and still keep moving, at the cost of crit slots and no torso twist.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 17 March 2018 - 05:06 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Brain Cancer, on 17 March 2018 - 01:27 AM, said:

The Rifleman never had 360 torso twist. Just flippable arms.

Juodas Varnas, on 17 March 2018 - 01:49 AM, said:

Pretty sure nothing is supposed to have 360^o torso twist, i mean, some mechs had the 'extended torso-twist' quirk, but even that only increased the torso-twist by a single hex-side to either side.

thats not correct in all ways
https://clancoyote.c...ee-torso-twist/

many Mechs in MW4 have 360° Torso Twist

https://mwomercs.com...ee-torso-twist/

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 17 March 2018 - 05:09 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 17 March 2018 - 05:07 AM, said:

thats not correct ...
https://clancoyote.c...ee-torso-twist/

many Mechs in MW4 have 360° Torso Twist





https://clancoyote.c...ee-torso-twist/

Except MW4 blatantly ignored and replaced many rules of the mechwarrior franchise, invalidating itself as something to point to as legitimate source to base off of for other MW titles. All mechwarrior games are supposedly based off of the tabletop rules, "adapted" to fit an FPS. The Rifleman did not have 360 torso twist in tabletop. It has flippie arms (alongside any other mech without lower arm actuators in both arms), which would be hilarious in MWO considering the lack of rear cam, but did not have 360 torso twist.

For that matter, neither did the Summoner or Mad Dog.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 17 March 2018 - 05:10 AM.

[Foxfire]

They haven't been able to do something so basic as Melee yet..

[Brain Cancer]

Juodas Varnas, on 17 March 2018 - 01:49 AM, said:

Pretty sure nothing is supposed to have 360^o torso twist, i mean, some mechs had the 'extended torso-twist' quirk, but even that only increased the torso-twist by a single hex-side to either side.

That actually effectively gives the quirked robot a full 360 arc of fire, as it's range of twist extends the additional hexside needed to fire in any direction.. And no, the Rifleman doesn't get it. It can, however flip it's arm mounts like anything with the appropriate arm actuators removed, which a lot of people mistake for the same thing.

[Brain Cancer]

Pariah Devalis, on 17 March 2018 - 05:05 AM, said:

*record scratch*

Wait wait wait... hold up.

Lore Nova had torso twist. The art was not designed by the same people who made the rules. Per the rules, lore Nova could torso twist juuuust fine.

*double scratch*

Actually, the Nova in tabletop does NOT have torso twist if you're using quirks. MWO's version is considerably more flexible.

[Juodas Varnas]

Brain Cancer, on 17 March 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

*double scratch*

Actually, the Nova in tabletop does NOT have torso twist if you're using quirks. MWO's version is considerably more flexible.

Quirks, however, are considered to be an optional rule (and if you're using them neither the Mauler, nor the Bushwacker get torso-twisting either)

[evilauthor]

Brain Cancer, on 17 March 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

That actually effectively gives the quirked robot a full 360 arc of fire, as it's range of twist extends the additional hexside needed to fire in any direction.. And no, the Rifleman doesn't get it. It can, however flip it's arm mounts like anything with the appropriate arm actuators removed, which a lot of people mistake for the same thing.

But only for arm mounted weapons. A mech with normal torso twisting and flippable arms can't bring its torso mounted weapons to bear on anything behind it. A mech with a 360 twisting torso CAN.

The Rifleman has torso hard points. If it were true to BT lore, it would not be able to fire those torso weapons at targets behind it unless the torso weapons were mounted pointed backwards... in which case it wouldn't be able to use them to fire at targets in front of it.

Edited by evilauthor, 17 March 2018 - 10:37 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Juodas Varnas, on 17 March 2018 - 10:32 AM, said:

Quirks, however, are considered to be an optional rule (and if you're using them neither the Mauler, nor the Bushwacker get torso-twisting either)

If you're not using quirks, then everybody handles the same as far as bipeds go in tabletop. Quads, of course don't worry about torso twisting at all.

evilauthor, on 17 March 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

But only for arm mounted weapons. A mech with normal torso twisting and flippable arms can't bring its torso mounted weapons to bear on anything behind it. A mech with a 360 twisting torso CAN.

The Rifleman has torso hard points. If it were true to BT lore, it would not be able to fire those torso weapons at targets behind it unless the torso weapons were mounted pointed backwards... in which case it wouldn't be able to use them to fire at targets in front of it.

That's....basically what I just said. RFL can flip it's arms, can't twist it's torso all the way around to shoot in any direction.

(And the Urbanmech in TT not only can flip it's arms, but gets the extended twist quirk to boot. Go Urbie!)

Edited by Brain Cancer, 17 March 2018 - 10:39 AM.

[evilauthor]

Brain Cancer, on 17 March 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

If you're not using quirks, then everybody handles the same as far as bipeds go in tabletop. Quads, of course don't worry about torso twisting at all.



That's....basically what I just said. RFL can flip it's arms, can't twist it's torso all the way around to shoot in any direction.

(And the Urbanmech in TT not only can flip it's arms, but gets the extended twist quirk to boot. Go Urbie!)

Does any Urbie variant even have torso mounted weapons? The one I have in MWO certainly doesn't.

Oh, just had a thought. Flippable arms and full 360 torso twisting combined means that it may actually be desirable to divide your torso armor evenly between your front and back sides. When one side runs out of armor, just turn your torso around to present the enemy with fresh armor and flip your arms so you can still shoot at them. Assuming you still have your arms of course.

[Juodas Varnas]

evilauthor, on 17 March 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

Does any Urbie variant even have torso mounted weapons? The one I have in MWO certainly doesn't.

Oh, just had a thought. Flippable arms and full 360 torso twisting combined means that it may actually be desirable to divide your torso armor evenly between your front and back sides. When one side runs out of armor, just turn your torso around to present the enemy with fresh armor and flip your arms so you can still shoot at them. Assuming you still have your arms of course.

Yeah.
The R63 has a small pulse in the torso (there's also a mention of some variant that supposed to have a machine gun in the left torso, but i'm not aware of such a variant )

[Brain Cancer]

evilauthor, on 17 March 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

Does any Urbie variant even have torso mounted weapons? The one I have in MWO certainly doesn't.

Oh, just had a thought. Flippable arms and full 360 torso twisting combined means that it may actually be desirable to divide your torso armor evenly between your front and back sides. When one side runs out of armor, just turn your torso around to present the enemy with fresh armor and flip your arms so you can still shoot at them. Assuming you still have your arms of course.

As noted, yes. There's even a no-arms version canonically, of all things.

But you still want to focus your armor on one side. All the armor on the other side doesn't matter if something penetrated from the opposite one and destroyed your internals, but having a 360 field of fire means you can keep moving the best direction possible without sacrificing your chance to shoot back.

[Grus]

Koniving, on 16 March 2018 - 11:47 PM, said:

True but if you saw the riots on third person in mwo...

yeah but 3rd person is SO bad.. you've have to be damn good to do well in a quad... the way it should be.

[Thander Gil]

Athom83, on 12 March 2018 - 04:25 AM, said:

I mean... there is a Locust Quad.

There is?

[Shadowomega1]

Shame no one is mentioning the Tripod and Hexapod mechs.

[Krivvan]

C

Or with more detail, C because it does represent a lot of time and effort spent on something that gives very little to the game. Not unless there's already effort going into tanks and vehicles.

Your best bet if you really want quads is to ask for it in MW5.

Edited by Krivvan, 17 March 2018 - 07:47 PM.

[Anjian]

Shadowomega1, on 17 March 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

Shame no one is mentioning the Tripod and Hexapod mechs.

[Brain Cancer]

Shadowomega1, on 17 March 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

Shame no one is mentioning the Tripod and Hexapod mechs.

Tripods are Republic (3100s) era. Hexapods don't exist in Battletech.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Brain Cancer, on 17 March 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

*double scratch*

Actually, the Nova in tabletop does NOT have torso twist if you're using quirks. MWO's version is considerably more flexible.

thats not MWOs idea ...in MW4 came the Torso twisting Nova First

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 17 March 2018 - 11:13 PM.