106 replies to this topic

[Tiewolf]

Escef, on 18 March 2018 - 05:06 PM, said:

It is. Part of the skill tree changeover, however, was to make it easier for casual players to skill up mechs. I don't have a problem with this. Besides, it gives the completionists something to do.

I strongly disagree on the its easier for casual players. From getting skill points (makes no sense to use 3 currencies), to the spending (skill maze) all the way to the required grind it is a mess. This is sad because i really liked the idea of the skill tree.

The old system was way cheaper because you could sell 2 mechs for c-bills after you had mastered the one you wanted. And if you wanted to keep all mechs there is no argument about the grind difference now and then. The one and only benefit is that you save 2 mech bays. Thats all you got for this hell of a grind and making the new player experience even worse because they have to play unskilled mechs against veterans with skilled mechs and 10k+ GSP to skill every new mech instantly.
All in all this skill maze in its current state is just bad and even hinders new players and casuals selectively. Plz stop promoting someting stupid like this. But PGi doesn`t listen because they only listen to celebs who do not care with their 10k+ GSP. These are the same people that told pgi that Solaris will be a big thing. Pgi will wake up when they figure out what the majority of the players the avarage/casual players thinks about Solaris or the skill tree.

[LordNothing]

hundred and ninety mechs, all equipped, upgraded, skilled, and mastered. i have insta-mastery on all pre-skilltree mechs that i do not currently own in the form of hsp (i did a mass sell off before skill trees just for that purpose). bought and insta-mastered every post skill tree mech (with the exception of the current month's cbill mechs, of which i only own half thus far). then theres that nearly one million gxp im sitting on. if i need cbills and dont have them, i can just start liquidating my seemingly bottomless equipment stockpile. as for mech bays, stockpile mc from events and wait for a sale.

at this point idk why we still have to delude ourselves into thinking that leveling mechs serves any purpose at all. all it does is keep the po folks down. the new players who own 2 mechs and have to compete with my collection. make em gimp their own stats for the sake of leveled mechs. if it was an rpg id say fine leveling, but its not. at the end of the day this is just an arena shooter and arena shooters work best when things are in balance. things will never be in balance as long as there are artificial sources of differentness like how leveled your mechs are. thats not even touching the regular game imbalance that comes with any game.

if mech leveling went away tomorrow i wouldnt miss it, hell i wouldnt even ask for a refund.

[Trenchbird]

Davegt27, on 18 March 2018 - 10:10 PM, said:

at least we used to have something more tangible like speed tweak or adv zoom module

Those still exist, you just need to take some extra stuff (Or a lot) to get them that are already relevant to getting them. Instead of the old speed tweak, you also get more torso mobility; Instead of just advanced Zoom, you also get some other nifty stuff.

While not everything on the skill tree can help your mech, the things on the way help round out your build. Frankly, that's better than the all-or-nothing of the original Module system to me.

As for "New" Players complaining, it typically took me about 5 minutes to bring rarely-IOW, almost never-playing buddies up to speed; Not only that, but all of them viewed it as a massive improvement to the original system, even the one who bothered to master his three Stormcrows (And owned no other mechs) beforehand, complete with full modules.

On that note, the majority of the complaints I see on this forum at least are people who just booted up the game after two years and just decide to auto-overload and whine like spoiled children shut down when they see it because they can't get used to the new system, for better or for worse. But I don't touch the New Player forum, of my own admission, so my outlook may be skewed.

Edited by Catten Hart, 18 March 2018 - 10:30 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

Davegt27, on 18 March 2018 - 10:10 PM, said:

note I am not talking about the rule of three
I feel like that's a different subject

I think this is an excellent point. Most people who say the skill tree is good always point to the rule of three as what it's better than.

Which begs the question - so if rule of three is removed, is the previous system better than the skill tree?

I think it is.

Especially when pgi sold the skill tree as something that allowed players complete customization of their mechs. It doesn't. It has a tedious route with a lot of false "choices". Hell, the entire jumpjet tree is a false choice and my sympathies to the poor newbie who decided to dump 2-3 days worth of points into that useless tree.

That's why new players quit by the way.

[w4ldO]

the drag is real


as soon as i master a mech i'll bench it

[BIOHAZARD]

What I find completely stupid about upgrading, is how utterly completely useless XP of any kind is, AFTER you upgrade your 'mech.

[El Bandito]

Samial, on 18 March 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

What a waste of cbils..

I never use skill tree unless its free history sp, no way i'm wasting my money on that, i don't care if it makes a mech better (debatable) I'm not wasting 5mil on a few skills, i'll play badly thanks over that thanks..

Most mechs make zero difference with 91 skills anyway.

BIOHAZARD, on 19 March 2018 - 12:06 AM, said:

What I find completely stupid about upgrading, is how utterly completely useless XP of any kind is, AFTER you upgrade your 'mech.

You can convert GXP into SP you know.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 March 2018 - 12:16 AM.

[arcana75]

Samial, on 18 March 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

What a waste of cbils..

I never use skill tree unless its free history sp, no way i'm wasting my money on that, i don't care if it makes a mech better (debatable) I'm not wasting 5mil on a few skills, i'll play badly thanks over that thanks..

Most mechs make zero difference with 91 skills anyway.

While some bonuses result in minuscule bonuses (eg +armour on a light mech), due to the percentile effect you should activate skill nodes for numbers that are big on your mech, and skip those that affect small numbers.

The only skill tree that has more linear outcomes is the Aux tree.

[Felbombling]

IVeoRR, on 18 March 2018 - 06:05 PM, said:

I don't care about the games you play on your phone, bud. Lol, I have friends that play games where upgrades take years. I care about this game. I will never have enough time to skill all of my old and new mechs as I have a life outside of this game...but I love this game. I think it would capture more interest if the grind was shortened just a tad. A tad more cbills and xp per match would help the feeling that I'm progressing rather than getting left behind...in the grind. I'm a poet and didn't even know it.

To begin, I don't play games on my phone. Other than that, the grind in MechWarrior: Online is a complete joke. Similar games to this one have horrendous grinds on the way to optimization. I'm talking hundreds of games in the same unit/tank/ship. With MW: O, we're talking about 45 games here, if your play is HORRIBLE, to max out your new Mech of choice. Being tier 1, I have to assume you have some level of familiarity with the game and mechanics, as well as a surplus of C-Bills to upgrade and better your situation. While I agree that it is a hindrance to play thirty games in a sub-optimal Mech, it is not the end of the world.

I'm sorry, but as I read your original post, you came off a little like a new player struggling with the affordability of Endo-steel and bemoaning the horrendous challenges in front of them.

[Escef]

justcallme A S H, on 18 March 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

And yet new players continually post up here and on reddit about how long the grind is and you don't really notice anything.

People like to complain. I don't care what the "give me free stuff faster" crowd has to say. I don't go on reddit because I don't like swimming in toilets. And has been pointed out numerous times, the grind in MWO is far less than other, more popular games.

[Escef]

Tiewolf, on 18 March 2018 - 10:20 PM, said:

... (skill maze) ...

Ooooh, the "skill maze" comment! Yup, nothing like admitting the skill tree is too complicated for you!

[KodiakGW]

Another satisfied customer.

[Vellron2005]

IVeoRR, on 18 March 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

That's right, 2 paltry nodes a match...

Now that all of my, "free" points, from the changeover to the new skill tree are gone, I have been forced to feel like a, "new," player. What horsesh*t it is to have to skill a mech when it takes so long.

I have been playing a better part of the day trying to get my Zeus competent on heat, mobility, etc. and I am ending my play with 33 nodes. Ridiculous.

Please address this P.G.I. Speed the process up by the amount of points attainable per match or whatever. Playing an unskilled mech sucks and getting enough xp to unlock 1-6 nodes, if you even win and/or do well, is stupidly slow.

Love the game, but the grind is outrageous.

If they speed up the grind, then they could not churn out enough new mechs to keep players playing.. This grind is the core gamplay..

Sad, but true..

Edited by Vellron2005, 19 March 2018 - 06:55 AM.

[Electron Junkie]

The problem with the current skill tree mess is that we have to unlock crap we don't want (Hill Climb / Speed~Target Retention, ect...) or need (Yaw/Pitch, ect...) to get to things we actually want (Speed Tweak / ECM / Radar Derp / Master Slot, ect...) all while have to weigh the option of armor and ammo trees.

The days of simply having basics unlocked as you played and then quirking though the 3+ slots with modules was infinity better.

[Phoolan Devi]

Electron Junkie, on 19 March 2018 - 07:01 AM, said:

The problem with the current skill tree mess is that we have to unlock crap we don't want (Hill Climb / Speed~Target Retention, ect...) or need (Yaw/Pitch, ect...) to get to things we actually want (Speed Tweak / ECM / Radar Derp / Master Slot, ect...) all while have to weigh the option of armor and ammo trees.

It's miniscule!

Quote

The days of simply having basics unlocked as you played and then quirking though the 3+ slots with modules was infinity better.

No, it wasn't! First off, you had to get those modules with gxp....an endless grind back then. Now, you get the benefits of modules much faster much cheaper! Second, you can "equip" much more modules now and again much faster and cheaper! I can now have seismic, adv zoom, radar derp, target decay and target retention all in one mech at once, alongside range boost, cooldown boost and duration boost. All of them cheaper and all together.....impossible under the old system.

TL:DR: the grind for new players is way way less now than it was in the old system....even w/out the rule of three!

Edited by Phoolan Devi, 19 March 2018 - 07:24 AM.

[Phoolan Devi]

Wil McCullough, on 18 March 2018 - 10:56 PM, said:

Which begs the question - so if rule of three is removed, is the previous system better than the skill tree?

I think it is.

I do not and here is why: benefits of former modules are reached much faster now! You can get more benefits of former modules now!

Quote

Hell, the entire jumpjet tree is a false choice and my sympathies to the poor newbie who decided to dump 2-3 days worth of points into that useless tree.

Depends on the mech! Jump tree for certain mechs is just a mobility boost brought from heaven!

Quote

That's why new players quit by the way.

Any new player who quits because of skill tree and grind in the new system would've quit under the old system way earlier!

[Burke IV]

I read they took the reskill cost away. This to me is a sign that PGI knows they have screwed up, but its one of those tiny little changes that doesnt mean all that much. Just do away with the skill tree while there is still a chance some people might come back and play. It would even make it easier for PGI to balance the game wouldnt it? If it goes away ill buy a mech pack

Edited by Burke IV, 19 March 2018 - 08:03 AM.

[El Bandito]

Electron Junkie, on 19 March 2018 - 07:01 AM, said:

The days of simply having basics unlocked as you played and then quirking though the 3+ slots with modules was infinity better.

Nah, the module swapping alone was such a tedious hassle that I side firmly with current skill tree.

[Mystere]

arcana75, on 19 March 2018 - 01:20 AM, said:

The only skill tree that has more linear outcomes is the Aux tree.

And people then loudly and incessantly demand that consumables be nerfed into the ground or removed entirely from the game.

[justcallme A S H]

Escef, on 19 March 2018 - 06:40 AM, said:

People like to complain. I don't care what the "give me free stuff faster" crowd has to say. I don't go on reddit because I don't like swimming in toilets. And has been pointed out numerous times, the grind in MWO is far less than other, more popular games.

Good thing you avoided the other part of my post. No where to argue that I guess.

End of the day if you cannot see that Skill Maze was bad for MWO, bad for population etc. Then you are indeed part of the problem as to why MWO now had 28,000 active players a month down from 38,000 some 14months ago. The major drop came around, no surprise, skill maze.