106 replies to this topic

[S1C4R10]

Yosharian, on 19 March 2018 - 04:09 PM, said:

> Now that all of my, "free" points, from the changeover to the new skill tree are gone, I have been forced to feel like a, "new," player. What horsesh*t it is to have to skill a mech when it takes so long.

Wait what

When they changed from modules to the new skill tree, "free," nodes were given for all of the modules that you had already invested time and effort into. Someone also mentioned historic points for the mechs that one had already mastered, thus having free points to spend in the new skill tree to level up.

I used many of my module nodes to skill new mechs that I had purchased, bypassing the grind. I ran out of those free points weeks ago and have been starting from scratch on every mech purchased and even though I love playing the game, during prime time, running an unskilled mech has been f*ck*ing brutal. I don't claim to be a good player, but I'm not a potato either because after prime time play I can hold my own and then some.

I have just been putting decent thought into it and think, like stated before, that more xp and cbills could help morale a bit. We are all familiar with the kind of morale wrecking devastation comes with a losing streak. ...and yes I invest in premium time and grind with champions and heros alike.

Cara Carcass, on 20 March 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

2 per match is actually amazing. I am a good player, and i average about 1.2 nodes per match. I just for teh fun tryed leveling a supernova. 996dmg 2 kills 2 solo kills 4 kmdd and a few assists abrought me 1588 XP.... Just shy of 2 nodes. If 2 nodes on average is actually waht you got you must be super amzing with an average damage output of over 1k. And this is while i have premium time on.

While i currently sit at aroudn 600 on the jarls lsit you are at 4400. How do you do that? How do you get over 1k consistently with these teams at the moment?

Study your score screen, really have a look...kills and damage dealt are only fractions of the xp and cbill pie.

[Phoolan Devi]

justcallme A S H, on 20 March 2018 - 03:48 PM, said:

Except it was less of a grind as soon as you purchased more than 1 variant of a mech.

It is not a false claim, it's reality.

1 mech skill maze = faster than 3 mech old system
2 mech skill maze = longer than 3 mech old system
3 mech skill maze = insanely longer than 3 mech old system

What you are forgetting are the benefits of the former modules! First off, you needed two modules for each weapon. Those were 3,750 gxp per weapon. The next were things like seismic, radar derp etc pp at 15,000 gxp! An enoumous grind for a new player.

Yes, over time the grind accumulates to more, but in the beginning, to field a fully speced mech, it's way way shorter!

[Flitzomat]

My experience is that Assaults tend to get less xp than the more agile mechs as they are missing out on many of the flanking etc. bonuses. Also Savior kills in the end-phase are easy in a fast (jumpjet) Mech. Hover, 1ms tick on target, and you got it. The slow assault not getting around the corner is left out. So only relying on the dmg output on Assaults screws you XP-wise

Dunno, maybe it changed slightly since then...

https://mwomercs.com...tch-notes-13345 (stupid Forum doesn´t let me C&P its own table correctly)

Component Destroyed 10 2300 Kill 30 4000 Death 0 0 Win 250 25000 Loss 40 10000 Assist 20 2500 Team Kill -150 -10000 Damage Done 0 21 Tie 75 15000 Capture Win 75 0 Capture Assist 50 0 Spotting Assist 20 2000 Salvage Bonus 1 0 Kill Most Damage 80 5000 Solo Kill 280 10000 Scouting 20 2000 Flanking 20 1500 Capture 50 2500 Capture Pulse 0 25 First Capture 60 4500 Brawling 130 4500 Tag Damage 0 35 Tag Kill 60 6000 Narc Kill 60 6000 Hit And Run 15 2000 Tag Stealth 5 150 Lance Formation 0 60 Protected Medium 0 65 Protected Light 0 65 Protect Proximity 0 55 Savior Kill 60 4500 Defensive Kill 60 4500 UAV Kill 50 0 UAV Locked Damage 25 1800 UAV Detection 20 250 Counter ECM 70 2500 Counter ECM Locked Dmg 25 500 Turret Kill 50 1000 Tag Narc 25 1500

Edited by Flitzomat, 21 March 2018 - 04:51 AM.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

Teer Kerensky, on 20 March 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

My average XP is 1000+, which would be to 1.2 nodes. Yours has to be much higher. Winning is a lot for XP, your Supernova example probably was a loss.

You can see more detailed here
https://mwomercs.com...stats?type=mech

Oh without Madstats you might only see totals, so you'd have to divide by number of games, and can't easily see max. averages. If intrested and using combatible browser see
https://mwomercs.com...-stats-sorting/


For example my recent brought Arctic Wolf, 15 games average 1043 exp. This is with premium time I think, because I got some from lootbags. Normally I don't have premium time
2 med pulse 4xSRM4 3JJs ECM
https://mwo.smurfy-n...49479eeff1e5c48

Still insanely slow under the old system i would have mastered 3 mechs with that kind of xp flow, good that i ahve 14k SP left and i dont actually ahve to do it.

And no, win or los doesnt matter much my best game was 1.2k dmg a win with 3 kills few solo kills... and 1880XP......
I remember times where that would have been 6k+ XP......

well here are my supernova stats as you proposed to look up...

SNV-C 12 Games 13.234 Xp -> approx. 1.38 nodes per match.
Sure low win rate - but that doesnt get me all teh way towards 2 nodes per match. If i look at my lights, which are worse for me because i am not good at playing them - i get about 2 Nodes per match. Flitzomat is right here, assaults are punished XP wise since damage, the main factor for assautls does 0. I would get better Xp scores if i sneak around into an enemy base with my assault and only touch every enemy once for 1 dmg so i get the assists. Thats crazy.

For all m mechs i get 1500XP per match, thats jsut shy of 2 nodes, and i remember that there were times where it was alot above 2kXP. And i be came a better play over time. This somehow seems all wrong.....

Edited by Cara Carcass, 21 March 2018 - 05:37 AM.

[KodiakGW]

Phoolan Devi, on 21 March 2018 - 04:18 AM, said:

The next were things like seismic, radar derp etc pp at 15,000 gxp. An enoumous grind for a new player.

Evidently people are forgetting that you got 48,000GXP at Cadet Bonus 25. Still there, check for yourself. I know because I was surprised when I got it on an alt I only started playing a few months ago, until I remembered that it was put in place for exactly that reason.

But, please, continue to use that as an argument, and add in the “searching for modules” one too.

[vonJerg]

Cara Carcass, on 21 March 2018 - 04:49 AM, said:

..... I would get better Xp scores if i sneak around into an enemy base with my assault and only touch every enemy once for 1 dmg so i get the assists. Thats crazy......

You do know that you get assists for just spamming "R" key, right? No need to damage them or even have LOS, just target them and you will get a assist.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

vonJerg, on 21 March 2018 - 06:24 AM, said:

You do know that you get assists for just spamming "R" key, right? No need to damage them or even have LOS, just target them and you will get a assist.

Ok, i can even ply worse that i thought and still get more XP than a guy that actually helps the team.....

[w4ldO]

cbills and XP are based on match performance, why not stick with only one currency?

[Dr Cara Carcass]

w4ldO, on 21 March 2018 - 06:38 AM, said:

cbills and XP are based on match performance, why not stick with only one currency?

Yeah, actually you ahve to spend bilsl to change somethign on the mech to make it run faster etc....

[LowSubmarino]

IVeoRR, on 18 March 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

That's right, 2 paltry nodes a match...

Now that all of my, "free" points, from the changeover to the new skill tree are gone, I have been forced to feel like a, "new," player. What horsesh*t it is to have to skill a mech when it takes so long.

I have been playing a better part of the day trying to get my Zeus competent on heat, mobility, etc. and I am ending my play with 33 nodes. Ridiculous.

Please address this P.G.I. Speed the process up by the amount of points attainable per match or whatever. Playing an unskilled mech sucks and getting enough xp to unlock 1-6 nodes, if you even win and/or do well, is stupidly slow.

Love the game, but the grind is outrageous.

I never have that problem cause theres not that many mechs im interested in. I generally dislike being immobile. The less mobile I am the more it sucks for me. Big mechs cant really evade, disengage or ambush or react to numerous things on the map. So I like faster heavies and especially mediums. Sometimes lights too but mostly mediums. They are by far the most fun for me. And I really dig having jjs to change levels and get to good positions. And I like clan tech cause you are fast and have good firepower and clan xl.

Theres very good mediums like the Uziel on the IS side too though. I play that alot and arctic wolfs now since they have been released. But apart from the arctic wolf theres not that much else that interests me and right now I have like 10 Mechs I play more or less regularly. So skill points and experience piles up. Would be a different story if I would master a big humber of mechs. But so far even when I outfitted 2 or 3 mechs at the same time I always had enough cbills and xp. But theres also months sometimes where I dont buy a new mech.

And if a mech is really bad or is gimped too hard for various reasons then im not interested. Played the highlander iic I think some time ago. The low arm hardpoints were so bad. On a big number of maps they consistently hit the ground. they hit anything. The ppcs i mean. So I really dislike low hardpoints on slower mechs. It sucks too hard. And the jjs in assaults aren't very good cause the fear of poptarting has made them very weak. You cant clear terrain effectively. Maybe if you go deep into jj tree. I have never tried that.

So theres not that many good, mobile, fast mechs that have okay or good hardpoints. So whenever I do find one or sometimes play assault mechs for fun or slower heavies, there was always enough resources to do it without having to level anything. I just buy the points right away. Cause I dislike playing without better heat or armor or whatever. I like playing mechs that are not that good but you can make them work in a specific way. They have potential for certain playtyles.

So there might be better options but you can make that mech and its loadouts work.

But if a mech is just bad I dont like playing. Better hardpoints and good mobility just provides much more good firing opportunities where bad hardpoints kill a lot of that potential. Im just saying that thats prolly while it all piled up so much. I dont buy many mechs. But I never understood when ppl said 'the grind is terrible'.

Thats the thing....how can you even keep motivating yourself?

I never perceive it as a grind. I play those mechs and loadouts cause theyre fun. Id try to find a number of for you pretty fun mechs and loadouts. Then money and skillpoints and xp just piles up rather quickly.

Edited by LowSubmarino, 21 March 2018 - 07:28 AM.

[Phoolan Devi]

KodiakGW, on 21 March 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

Evidently people are forgetting that you got 48,000GXP at Cadet Bonus 25. Still there, check for yourself. I know because I was surprised when I got it on an alt I only started playing a few months ago, until I remembered that it was put in place for exactly that reason.

But, please, continue to use that as an argument, and add in the “searching for modules” one too.

Can't be that long in the game since my alt account which I created a year ago didn't get it. You sure this cadet bonus of gxp wasn't introduced with the new skill tree?

[Leone]

vonJerg, on 21 March 2018 - 06:24 AM, said:

You do know that you get assists for just spamming "R" key, right? No need to damage them or even have LOS, just target them and you will get a assist.

Neg, this is incorrect. Damage needs be dealt, even if it is negligible.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 21 March 2018 - 09:12 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

Phoolan Devi, on 20 March 2018 - 07:01 AM, said:

I was talking about modules! The gxp costs for those were horrendous and an aweful grind for new players! This grind has been reduced to almost nothing now!

i actually found the cost alright. the main issue was having to switch to two different mechs that i didn't want to play in order to improve the one i did.

that and having to delete those mechs after i mastered the one i want, in order to free up mech bays to buy other mechs i want to play. then deleting other chassis variants again, unless i pony up cash for mech bays. i didn't have a problem with the "grind", but the rule of three.

Quote

See, choices! I feel it benefits some mechs, you don't.

every point you put into the skill tree benefits your mech, literally. it's not a choice though when some points benefit your mech waaaay more than others. because not putting those points in makes you perform badly against those that do. it's a false choice - cake or death.

Quote

But, to say the whole skill tree sucks because of some minor flaws and declaring the old one (which was even more confusing!) better is just humbug!

I personally would be all for no skill tree at all!

the skill tree doesn't have "minor" flaws. it has massive ones. it serves none of its original purpose (which was supposed to be meaningful customization). it's a maze where each node has such a miniscule effect that it becomes annoying. why click 91 nodes of "+1% this or that" when it could be trimmed to 10 nodes of 10%? the whole thing is so arbitrary and stupid.

at least in the old system, you could see a visible effect on performance because there was delayed gratification that came in chunks.

i mean, we're STILL being forced to take nodes that have absolutely no effect on a mech in order to reach ones that do. that's ridiculously bad design.

and why are the trees arranged that way? it makes zero sense either. why do i have to spread out three different paths (that all do the same thing) in order to reach - laser duration? what's the point? why can't ballistics, missiles and lasers all have their own branches and areas of the tree? why do JUMPJETS have their own tree? it's a mobility thing. and there's already a mobility tree.

the entire skill tree wasn't designed to be used. it was designed by someone who just wanted to fill nodes up with stuff, screw usability and screw the player experience. coming from a person who works in content creation irl, this just GRATES on my nerves. it reminds me of school essays where you had to hit a word count so you just throw **** in to "fluff" your essay up.

what you end up with is a chunk of nonsense that wastes everyone's time, just like the skill tree.

[KodiakGW]

Phoolan Devi, on 21 March 2018 - 08:18 AM, said:

Can't be that long in the game since my alt account which I created a year ago didn't get it. You sure this cadet bonus of gxp wasn't introduced with the new skill tree?

Need proof? Here is a link to a prior discussion about the Skill Web. And I use the word "web" instead of "maze" so somebody who has the IQ of a pickle won't think I don't understand it.

https://mwomercs.com...ng/page__st__40

Check my post about my the COMMUNITYalt account I made to run with the six paying customers I got to join the game, who left because of the Skill Web. Notice my screen shot of the refund ledger - 15000 GXP for Cool Shot 9x9. Now here is Jarl's list for that alt.

https://leaderboard....h?u=sixdemonbag

Never played more than 75 games with it. So, 15000 GXP in 75 games? Ummm..no.

Edit: Wanted to correct myself. The 48,000 was part of the patch. Link: https://mwomercs.com...14115-16may2017

But, fact still remains. I had 15,000 GXP after only 75 games to unlock a pilot node, and no events were running that month that gave large amounts of GXP. So not the horrendous grind some are making it out to be.
Events:
https://mwomercs.com/news/2017/04 - only Necessary Roughness and Easter
https://mwomercs.com/news/2017/03 - only Fool's Errand which ran into April

Edited by KodiakGW, 27 March 2018 - 09:58 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Phoolan Devi, on 21 March 2018 - 04:18 AM, said:

What you are forgetting are the benefits of the former modules! First off, you needed two modules for each weapon. Those were 3,750 gxp per weapon. The next were things like seismic, radar derp etc pp at 15,000 gxp! An enoumous grind for a new player.

Yes, over time the grind accumulates to more, but in the beginning, to field a fully speced mech, it's way way shorter!

No, I'm not. You're forgetting to respec a mech, which balances that out. You ain't phoolan me with this silly round in a circle argument.

You change a mech loadout from say balliastic to SRM, you are now unlocking even more nodes. Everyone goes off the '91' nodes. Fact is most mechs have 100-120 nodes unlocked, hell some of mine have more than that unlocked. A further grind if 20% at least. Again further adding time well over and above old system.

Defend it all you want, the maze did nothing good for MWO the way it was implemented.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 21 March 2018 - 01:22 PM.

[LordNothing]

full respecs are completely unneccisary. even when i drastically change a loadout il at most need to move 10-20 nodes around. usually i just use whatever xp was stacked on the mech and cbills to pay for it. new mechs i break out the gsp. havent had to dip into my million gxp yet.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 March 2018 - 03:07 PM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

KodiakGW, on 21 March 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

Evidently people are forgetting that you got 48,000GXP at Cadet Bonus 25. Still there, check for yourself. I know because I was surprised when I got it on an alt I only started playing a few months ago, until I remembered that it was put in place for exactly that reason.

Phoolan Devi, on 21 March 2018 - 08:18 AM, said:

Can't be that long in the game since my alt account which I created a year ago didn't get it. You sure this cadet bonus of gxp wasn't introduced with the new skill tree?

The said 48k GXP was intruduced with new skill tree. Everyone got it. Those who completed the cadet missions after skill tree was intruduced, got it. Those who had completed it before, got it. Everyone got it.

However it was not around to unlock any modules. So if KodiakGW claimed you could use it for modules, no you could not because it wasn't around at same time as modules. If Phoolan Devi meant he originally didn't get it he is correct, but nowadays he's got it all the same.


There might had been small GXP rewards from cadet archivements but those had been in hundreds or max few thounsands in total. They could not unlock pilot modules like seismic ect because those things required a lot of GXP mainly coming from playing and XP conversion.



Btw I have never seen an online game where players don't complain about this "grind". I've always found the consept really odd a bit because grind is negative thing. Why play something you feel is negative. When you just play for casual fun on your spare time, you will gradually level up pretty much everything. Of course everyhing really takes a lot of playing. I am of course biased since I play a lot.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Cara Carcass, on 21 March 2018 - 04:49 AM, said:

And no, win or los doesnt matter much my best game was 1.2k dmg a win with 3 kills few solo kills... and 1880XP......
I remember times where that would have been 6k+ XP......

well here are my supernova stats as you proposed to look up...

SNV-C 12 Games 13.234 Xp -> approx. 1.38 nodes per match.


Sure low win rate - but that doesnt get me all teh way towards 2 nodes per match.

Everything you say is incorrect. Your overall stats indicate you are much better player and you average XP with assults is quite more than quoted 1100 XP.

Do you even realise this? You can't take a tiny amount of unlucky games to prove anything. It's the same as I would take my Ebon Jag prime stats, 21 games total of 35,597 XP. It means nothing! Plus the W/L rate is whopping 0.43 lol, I think it has one UAC20 and either two UAC10 or two UAC5.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Wil McCullough, on 21 March 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

at least in the old system, you could see a visible effect on performance because there was delayed gratification that came in chunks.

Good jokes man.

When I unlocked archor turn on my mechs it was so great that even my teeth got whiter. And when I finally unlocked convergence, which was 4k XP or something like that, oh man, it was so great I run out of postulates.

Skill tree 2.0 can never deliver that kind of experience. Skill tree 2.0 has all these stupid-*** gated notes that do nothing.

[Moadebe]

The old system SUCKED. Period. If you were just starting off and trying to get into this game you had to grind...and grind ... AND GRIND. Period. This skill tree it NOT AS BAD as yall THINK it is. Is it perfect? No. It is NOT. Is it better than the module system and the "rule of 3" ... oh HELL YES.

It does NOT take that long to skill out a mech. With or without premium time. You want a grind? Bring back the old system.

It costs LESS now to skill out a mech than it did then. Both in time and C-bills. Oh yeah...AND MC. Cant forget about that.

There are things that could be done better with the skill tree system. I will give that. Making it quicker to skill out a mech I feel EVERYONE will say yes to (cause face it...no one likes leveling or skilling anything. We want the end result not the journey in a video game.) Does it really need it though? No. Not really.