88 replies to this topic

[Spare Parts Bin]

Brain Cancer, on 12 April 2018 - 04:27 PM, said:

There's a reason why what's good for the Battlemech goose isn't always good for the Tank Gander. Those BFGs are great, but woe to the Demolisher that eats an LB-X broadside and loses it's mobility in a single round, or combusts under a hail of inferno SRMs or the like. What tends to murder people with not-robot units is that they all have their own vulnerabilities, but people raised on a diet of nothing but Battlemech on Battlemech action often neglect these and suffer horribly for it.

Koniving, on 12 April 2018 - 04:41 PM, said:

That's when you hope you are in a behemoth with a damn good gunner.

8 out of 9 mech killed in 40 seconds from being tracked. 450 out of 500 tons of enemy forces destroyed.

Whether true kill, mobility kill, or in one case atomized. Tank finally went down. Poor commando ally got off one volley and was obliterated.

Imagine the carnage caused by 4 squads of jump infantry with SRMs, 2 Von Luckner MBTs, 2 Mechbuster Conventional Fighters in an area where the tanks and infantry can hide then bounce on unsuspecting Mechwarrior. A company may have some survivors.

Edited by Spare Parts Bin, 13 April 2018 - 06:59 PM.

[Metus regem]

Spare Parts Bin, on 13 April 2018 - 06:58 PM, said:

Imagine the carnage caused by 4 squads of jump infantry with SRMs, 2 Von Luckner MBTs, 2 Mechbuster Conventional Fighters in an area where the tanks and infantry can hide then bounce on unsuspecting Mechwarrior. A company may have some survivors.

Two words, that should cause you night terrors...

City
Tech

What's that? You asked about hidden set ups for SRM carriers with 5x inferno SRM/6 and 5xSRM/6 with High yeald loads? Why yes, you can hide that on the first floor of a building to murder the back armour of a mech that walks by....

[Akillius]

back to OP what's last ditch effort mechs?

Okay how about pencil and paper days circa 1980's:
Mechs not 100% repaired and by late 80's a mech with ICE slapped in just to get it rolling out to battlefield.
And overrunning (later called swarming because starcraft) with those small 10T and 15T mechs from battletech and stardrive magazines. They were at the time considered canonical and cheaper then dirt even though ended up in the dirt after they fired just a couple shots.
Like the 10T Junior, 15T Apollo and ?Stiletto?
Last ditch was almost always accompanied by a lot of conventional military, but the majority was just fresh troops.

And I can only recall 1 gm (out of ~9) that would not let any mech smaller then 20T Stinger because he didn't believe in the advanced ruleset of Battledroids and the 20T stinger was the smallest mech with a playing piece included with the game...
Even though page 23 stated: "Battedroids weigh between 5 and 100 tons (in increments of 5 tons)" and he wouldn't let anyone play a Merlin either because it was in the advanced ruleset. As a result of his lackings, he only got to gm maybe 6 times over 5-7 years and most of us played weekly during 6 months of winter. xD

Recap: mechs not 100% repaired, mechs 20T or smaller, mostly fresh troops are the conventional military, ICE in a mech.

[Brain Cancer]

Spare Parts Bin, on 13 April 2018 - 06:58 PM, said:

Imagine the carnage caused by 4 squads of jump infantry with SRMs, 2 Von Luckner MBTs, 2 Mechbuster Conventional Fighters in an area where the tanks and infantry can hide then bounce on unsuspecting Mechwarrior. A company may have some survivors.

And this is why there's all kinds of bits and pieces rarely considered worth it in a pure-combat-robots game (which is all too frequent), but a FS9-S with it's flamers, antimissile system and most importantly Beagle Probe that you'd laugh at otherwise would be considered a blessing in situations like that. There are Battlemechs that are really good at countering non Battlemech units, but your average player turns their nose up at them because they're not all that great for killing other giant robots.

LB-2X? Pretty terribad versus any robot. Chews up aircraft with cluster flak (for that matter, standard ACs with flak will too, but good luck finding someone actually using that ammo bin for anything of the sort), shreds motive systems, and so on. A few of those are divine protection against aircraft, but versus a lance of Vindicators, you're probably cursing the tech who added flak ammo to your bins. Flamers and machine guns? Even a couple will clear infantry in a hurry, but that Hellstar terrorizing your assaults can't even take out a squad with a full alpha from it's fancy Clantech ERPPCs as the platoon kneecaps it and then swarms it to death.

Max Rickson, on 13 April 2018 - 08:20 PM, said:

back to OP what's last ditch effort mechs?

Okay how about pencil and paper days circa 1980's:
Mechs not 100% repaired and by late 80's a mech with ICE slapped in just to get it rolling out to battlefield.

And there's actually a few very rare ICE-powered designs even now, although mostly civilian types that get some armor and MGs bolted on. It's the lack of heat sinks that tends to be a killer on those things.

Quote

And overrunning (later called swarming because starcraft) with those small 10T and 15T mechs from battletech and stardrive magazines. They were at the time considered canonical and cheaper then dirt even though ended up in the dirt after they fired just a couple shots.
Like the 10T Junior, 15T Apollo and ?Stiletto?
Last ditch was almost always accompanied by a lot of conventional military, but the majority was just fresh troops.

And I can only recall 1 gm (out of ~9) that would not let any mech smaller then 20T Stinger because he didn't believe in the advanced ruleset of Battledroids and the 20T stinger was the smallest mech with a playing piece included with the game...
Even though page 23 stated: "Battedroids weigh between 5 and 100 tons (in increments of 5 tons)" and he wouldn't let anyone play a Merlin either because it was in the advanced ruleset. As a result of his lackings, he only got to gm maybe 6 times over 5-7 years and most of us played weekly during 6 months of winter. xD

Well, Battledroids also didn't have jump jet limits.

This led to some really silly pogobots with a 1 MP engine and jump capacity that could make a Spider jealous. Oh, and all JJs were .5 tons. You will believe an Atlas can fly!

[Spare Parts Bin]

Never played Battlebots. Had some friends in college that had quit by the time I met them, but they used to salvage Mechs together. They had stuff like a Shadow Hawk's arm on a heavier Mech, etc. part of the time it was a need to repair battle damage some of the time it was to get weapons or equipment hard points aka poor man's Omnimech.

[Lily from animove]

MechaBattler, on 21 March 2018 - 02:40 PM, said:

Well there's a lack of consequence in this game. You don't really have to consider what fighting a mech will cost you. And everything is easily customized and upgraded. I'm curious to see if MW5 will impart that feeling and make cost effective mechs more important than alpha vomit meta mechs.

probably not, honestly, whatever kills the opponent with the leats taken damage will be the most efficient way in athe new game, and this will mostly mean mechs who pack enough punch to qucikly obliterate things.

a ppc will cost the same no matter on which mech, to make bigger mechs really less cost efficient would mean their costs would have to potentially increase.

so 2 things will happen, either peopl use light mechs with weapon focus or top end mechs with laods of punch. the only thing that coudl counter this is mission design where objectives will require fats mechsso you have to use specific mech types for specific missions.

Edited by Lily from animove, 14 April 2018 - 03:32 AM.

[Steel Raven]

Depends on the era, plenty of tech lvl 1 second hand mechs that are cheap enough to fix up. The Wolfhound becomes Merc friendly post 3050, the Locust is even more plentiful and cheaper.

Mediums, the Shadow Hawk, Wolverine and Griffin was considered the holy trinity of mediums. Centurion is also a work horse of course.

Heavies get a bit pricier though the Thunderbolt, grasshopper and Warhammer seem numerous enough to get one second hand though it may be a fixer upper.

Assaults cost money no matter what.

[Koniving]

Steel Raven, on 14 April 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

The Wolfhound becomes Merc friendly post 3050

Considering that the Wolfhound doesn't exist until 3052... that's not surprising.

[Koniving]

Side note on the Battletech cartoon, where the Woflhound is roughly half the height of the Thor (Summoner)... this means that when Clan Jade Falcon attacks "My Home PLANET!!!", Adam Steiner, due to his namesake, is awarded a brand new fresh off the factory mech.
(And we know the Thor's height is 12.4 meters, which is 0.6 meters shorter than MWO's Wolfhound....)

And his combat strategy with this speed demon?
Take a couple of steps and stand toe to toe against a 70 ton beast.

Steiner tactics at its finest.



This also means he had the Wolfhound 2 years before its official production year.

Battletech 1st Somerset Strikers compendium, admittedly, has a large number of errors done purposely due to budget constraints (and mention of a second season that never happened). Not among the mistakes listed... is a Centurion CN9-A with jumpjets... but among them, is that instead of a laser, it "actually used an AC/10, but restrictions regarding American cartoons would only allow lasers, as such a running gag became "If only I had some autocannon ammo"... but in all the tabletop combat scenarios for each mission in the TV series, they have AC ammo.

Of interesting note: The reason that the Clans send so many mechs on Somerset, is the insult of "Refusing" the Batchall. Which Adam didn't refuse it, he had no idea what they were talking about. Ought to tell you how quickly Clan Jade Falcon is willing to drop their system for combat for a tactical advantage at the first chance they can.

As such it doesn't surprise me they are one of the few Clans that indulges in melee combat, something generally seen as beneath 'Mechs.

Edited by Koniving, 14 April 2018 - 01:26 PM.

[Koniving]

Check out the Solaris stuff here.

You may find some interesting stuff.

[Brain Cancer]

It's also worth nothing that the Battletech animated series is canonically....an Inner Sphere animated series.

They should have made it with a Davion studio, autocannons are REQUIRED. It's educational. Davion equals Dakka.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Koniving, on 14 April 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

Check out the Solaris stuff here.

You may find some interesting stuff.

I do not even plan to start playing Solaris. I am not happy FP will be down for an extended period of time.

[Zacharias McLeod]

Koniving, on 14 April 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

Considering that the Wolfhound doesn't exist until 3052... that's not surprising.

Wolfhound is from 3028 not 3052. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wolfhound

And Phelan Kell used one against the Clan Wolf in 3049.

Only the newer WLF-2 is from 3052.

But WLF-1, 1A and 1B are from 3028 till 3052.

Edited by Zacharias McLeod, 15 April 2018 - 03:23 AM.

[Koniving]

Zacharias McLeod, on 15 April 2018 - 03:20 AM, said:

Wolfhound is from 3028 not 3052. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wolfhound

And Phelan Kell used one against the Clan Wolf in 3049.

Only the newer WLF-2 is from 3052.

But WLF-1, 1A and 1B are from 3028 till 3052.

Ah.
Yeah, those pesky production years..

Guess that means a Wolfmech might be on the possible table of things to use.

Also thought of Mongoose, Mercury, and Chameleon.

[Zacharias McLeod]

Koniving, on 15 April 2018 - 03:54 AM, said:

Ah.
Yeah, those pesky production years..

Guess that means a Wolfmech might be on the possible table of things to use.

Also thought of Mongoose, Mercury, and Chameleon.

Only ComStar use those Mech at this time.

Outside ComStar those Mechs are realy rare and so very expensive because the spare parts are rare too. The the new production began in the mid and late 3050. And even after the new production line started the Mechs are still rare.

Like the others said. The best chance is to get somethinng like a Shadowhawk, Griffin or Wolverine as medium Mech. Wasp, Stinger and Locust as light Mechs. And heavy or assault Mechs are most of the time out of reach if you need a Mech to get back in business.

PS:
The era affect the Mech list too. Till 3050 the named Mechs are the most comon. After 3050 you see some other Mechs too. And in the 3060 you can find newer Mechs like the Bushwacker.

Edited by Zacharias McLeod, 15 April 2018 - 04:37 AM.

[Koniving]

Zacharias McLeod, on 15 April 2018 - 04:32 AM, said:

Only ComStar use those Mech at this time.

Outside ComStar those Mechs are realy rare and so very expensive because the spare parts are rare too. The the new production began in the mid and late 3050. And even after the new production line started the Mechs are still rare.

Like the others said. The best chance is to get somethinng like a Shadowhawk, Griffin or Wolverine as medium Mech. Wasp, Stinger and Locust as light Mechs. And heavy or assault Mechs are most of the time out of reach if you need a Mech to get back in business.

PS:
The era affect the Mech list too. Till 3050 the named Mechs are the most comon. After 3050 you see some other Mechs too. And in the 3060 you can find newer Mechs like the Bushwacker.

MUL states Mercury was largely Capellan in Early Succession Wars, but extinct in Clan invasion era. Mercury 98.

Mech Factory, which takes its information directly (like plagerizingly directly) from the sourcebooks, and TRO 3025, state that Mercury 98 is general availability. Well TRO 3025 Revised states: the highest concentration of Mercury 98s was owned by the soon to become Mercenary group Eldani Light Horse. They lost all 12. It doesn't state specifically how, but the remaining paragraph suggests that whatever Mercury 98s remain in 3025 are likely captured and scattered, as it goes on about how they often rely on significantly inferior replacement parts. The fact that the highest concentration of them was 12 after the Exodus, means that pretty much anyone that might have one... would have no more than two, if even.

Mercury 99 is SLDF (which would then be Comstar; they wouldn't let this thing stay out there.)
Mercury 97, which surfaces in the Clan invasion era, is Comstar (and apparently used by the Free Rassalhague).

So if I were to have one, it'd be a 98. And it'd be in a poor state with non-standard equipment.

Mongoose 67 is listed by Mech Factory as DraconisCombine, Mercenary General, Periphery General.
It is manufactured in the region of space (5 jumps away) that my mission takes place in.

MUL also states "Periphery General," "Mercenary" and "Wolf's Dragoons. for the Late Succession Wars - Renaissance period.

Chameleon 7V is... a charlotan, it's everywhere. Inner Sphere General Kell Hounds Mercenary Periphery General Wolf's Dragoons

But that lists Clan invasion era. It also says introduced 3056.
No where is it listed that Chameleons are Comstar.

Mech Factory puts it at 3025 tech despite the TRO it came from. It lists IS general, Periphery general, SLDF. 2750+.
Looking it up in the TRO itself, but pretty much unless the 7V in Mech Factory states its been a training mech within the SLDF for over 100 years, has not suffered attrition due to never being on the front lines, and that they have been in constant production since the before the Amaris Coup, pausing only in 3050 to be sold off to make room for the producton of more front line models. Its been bought up by Jilliane Suliban, daughter of a wealthy Tamar businessman whom as killed in the Clan invasion. She manufactures the V and two combat-intended variants designed by her staff on the planet Storfors, but though they have rolled off the factory ofin 3056, they have yet to see combat in 3058.

The 7v is found in Mechwarrior academies throughout the Periphery and the IS in all major houses.
I'm just waiting on my daughter to get bored of this live "Learn colors with dinosaurs for kids" tidbit... it's...seemingly never ending. But so far it is implied that they are also sold to police or really hard on their luck mercenaries.

Edit: Looking at Crescent Hawk's Revenge and how to get the Chameleon, is a 7V (doesn't specifically say it but the build is identical) (noteworthy, the "4" Chameleon has 4 small lasers, the 7v has only 3). Battletech Crescent Hawk's Revenge begins in 3028 according to Sarna.net

Okay, according to TRO 3058 Upgrade, the Chameleon 7V's been around so long that "every academy has several." Normally they only see actual combat when an academy is under attack. The same TRO also states that it is rumored that even the Clans have Chameleons in use as training mechs.

So, the Chameleon 7V is pretty much available universally. However, as hinted in the TRO 3058 Upgrade, the sight of a Chameleon 7V on the battlefield is considered to be a laughable threat at best. Apparently no one would take one seriously (despite people saying it is among the most powerful mechs you can get in Crescent Hawk's Revenge). Just won't find it in any army outside of an academy in the time frame I'm going for. But a cheap buy for a merc group or a 'donation' as part of the payment, certainly could be.

----------

To follow up, the Thorn which I'm not sure if I already mentioned, is a Comstar mech, but they were distributed (after major changes) to the Draconis Combine in the 3020-3049 period and are listed in TRO-3025 (in all versions of it; and there's a lot of versions of it).

Unfortunately, there's a bit of a less appealing issue that a 20 ton Thorn is large enough for a person to crawl inside the legs and arm of... and yet the Chameleon is not much more than 6 feet taller than a Semi and just barely wider than one. (Its large laser has to be externally mounted in the hand as a 'gun'.)

Edited by Koniving, 15 April 2018 - 07:48 AM.

[Koniving]

Crusader's a possibility, MW RPG 1st edition has it as one of the mechs to randomly attribute to pilot characters during creation. Crusaders 3K, 3L and 3D are all available in the MUL as Late Succession Wars-Renaissance period (3020 to 3049), and long after. So it is very much a possibility. Also three options, too.

It still fits in the problem I had with the Warhammer and Archer, though, too damn slow.
Ostsol and Ostroc were also commonly listed, but.. If one an Ostsol fell over that was pretty much it I don't see how they would get back up. Ostroc, though, is apparently pretty hard to find (which makes me wonder why it is listed as a common mech to randomly give to newly created characters).

Thunderbolt's a maybe but again, slow. 5SE or 5SS would be the likely variants. Issue is that a lot of its armor and firepower may be wasted until encountering an enemy assault. And then it may have a chance of over-shining. Catapult's a pretty obvious choice; though it isn't fast enough to keep up, it largely wouldn't need to be. Long as it could keep up with the rear line.

There's Assassin for a medium, but that's a dead-ringer for Davion involvement.

Cicada's certainly a possibility. It should be funny to note is that the "variants" listing of TechManual 3025, both original and revised, both state that the variant of Cicada sporting a PPC is... and I quote, "Another version mounted a Donal PPC on the CENTER TORSO and two Sperry/Browning machine guns on the legs."

Keep in mind this isn't the only time that interesting stuff is mentioned for the CT. Chameleon 4 is one of the only mechs to break the construction rules in its fully released TRO form, with the 2 MGs and ammo in the center torso. Of course, Marauder originally had its AC/5 mounted CT, too, but its 'placement' on the crit sheet is right torso though it wasn't uncommon to split it between left, center and right torso unofficially to represent its CT mount (which makes it 3 times more vulnerable).

There's also Clint... but gotta slip away for a bit. Am on Wife's time.

[Koniving]

Mkay, back. Clints are pretty wide spread. Its physical similarities to the Centurion could even explain where my CN9-A might have potentially received its AC/5 downgrade.

Hermes II is an interesting one; artwork's got the AC/5 right in the center of the gut,but it's another case of RT placement on the crit table.

Sentinel 3K is interesting; this guy's either gonna be put to use by the team or Kurita might be using it as an interceptor. I think this thing (from its appearance) might be an inspiration for PGI's latest Clan mech, as it has a very similar disjointed body section style, with laser barrel and missile in the right torso (which looks like an AC of sorts but isn't).

Vulcan is an obvious possibility. Dervish 6M is a very likely option. Sure the 7D is around but the Fed Suns probably won't be selling them, but 6M's something everyone has.

Kintaro fits the purpose and despite all common sense the Kintaro 18 is highly Federated...

The Bombardier seems ideal on all aspects but speed; but such is the norm for 65 tonners. Given the Centurion and his role, however, a slow heavy may work if sufficiently armed for long range.

That's pretty much all I got at the moment.

[Koniving]

Mission begins Friday.
Any further suggestions or comments/votes on the raiding force need to come in by then. Mechs need to be at least 5 years old, preferably older.

Also taking suggestions in Kurita and surrendered/abandoned Davion vehicles for the OpFor. Planet was in Davion custody for almost nine years before being abandoned at the end of the War of 3039.
These vehicles would primarily be for the purposes of:
*Supply shipments from docking stations to a nearby factory.
*General guard duty.
*General recon duty.
*Something hefty to react to serious threats.
*Interceptors.
*Extremely limited artillery [ballistic or missile based], due to the desire to not damage local infrastructure. (Needs spotter units).
Not all vehicles need to be military in nature, however any non-military vehicles such as law enforcement will not have primary roles.

Conditions: Less than hospitable. Breatheable. Hot, dry and arid, nearly Caustic despite the surface being 53% water, prone to high dust in some areas. Year correction, shortly after 3040.

Planetary notes:
*Was the subject of a biological attack in the Early Succession Wars. Though the planet was hot and dry, it was still filled with more plant life than it is today.
*Equatorial temperature 136 degrees F (56 degrees C).
*Population reaches 990+ million in 3062, and is easily in the 800 millions at the time of this operation.
*The planet has full infrastructure, cities as well as wilds.
*It has wild life, of which the highest native life is amphibian. These creatures are not of enough note to play a role in this mission.
*Receives shipments of water and some foreign materials. Factory occasionally sells medium mechs and the occasional Jagermech to periphery nations, as well as multiple types of replacement armor, communications equipment and targeting systems. As such it receives merchant vessels frequently and by the hundreds.
*The planet is orbited by a single warship at the time of the invasion.
*Time to reach the planet from the jump point: 3.31 days.
*Surface gravity, 0.74 Earth G.
*Socio-Industrial levels: B-A-B-A-C (Welcome someone to translate that for everyone, for me.)

[Metus regem]

Kon, what is the goal of the raid?

What does the target area look like (IE: defensive emplacements)?

What optional rules are you using? (Large expulsions as an example)

If you are going after a wall or guard post to gain entry to an area, perhaps taking a civilian cargo truck loaded down with a ton or several of MG ammo as a make shift bomb might be an idea... I forget the TRO, but there is one that has a transport tuck that packs 9t of MG ammo, it's singular purpose is to be used as a road side bomb.... It was used by the WoB during the Jihad.