179 replies to this topic

[DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 March 2018 - 06:50 PM, said:

To wit, it isn't just the Brown Sea furrowing its collective brow over the strength of the PIR-1. Even players from units like EmP and D5 are judging the PIR to be a bit too powerful. The MLX and ACH are bigger and slower and easier to disarm, and with fewer MGs; they can't flank like the PIR can and that makes all the difference.

Personally, I haven't formed an opinion yet. I'm more annoyed at the crits for MGs just evaporating weapons and equipment instantly more than I am the damage output. It's not fun being stripped like that.

Those who understand balance will see that the 12MG needs to be looked at. Only one mech can equip that so it does two things.

One it make people claim the chassis is OP (because they don't pay enough attention to realize it's the fact it has 12mg). Two, it obsoletes most mechs in it's class

With these two reasons alone we will see it get nerfed. The sooner the better. I don't care to see a bunch of these running around at MechCon 2018.

It will be teams of gauss and lasers to poke armor, then a clean up crew of PIR-1 with 12MG no heat swoop in.

Edited by DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley, 22 March 2018 - 07:02 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

I'm not so sure. I definitely think the PIR will have a place, especially on very large maps like Polar and Tourmaline. On smaller maps like Canyon Network, though, the Mist Lynx and Wolfhound are more useful because they can actually push a flank from the front; the PIR cannot do this.

[kuma8877]

arcana75, on 22 March 2018 - 06:45 PM, said:

You missed my point entirely.

Because you didn't really make one. So, a good pilot (he's consistently better than you or I) can put up good numbers in a good chassis... what's not to be expected there? It's a bad example of "every dog has it's day" and doesn't make the point you seem to be aiming for.

[Davegt27]

Its not my place to say a Mech is OP or not
I play the game I am given and never once have I said a Mech is OP

I make statements and observations

like I hardly ever shoot Mechs in the back when I am in a light

making a Mechs so small that no one can see or hit is another example of death from a thousand cuts or you might say death from a thousand crazy game mechanics

bottom line its PGI's game that's obvious what they want
I think you even get a extra reward for shooting people in the back

[S1C4R10]

Darian DelFord, on 21 March 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

So here is a video of a match I had about 3 hours ago. In it I scored over 1k damage. Now there are many pilots on here who say that it is OP and no light should be able to score that high and it must be an OP mech. People see scores like this and lets face it.... they lose their crap and come to the forums and scream NERF NERF NERF.

So with that said.... here is the video.....Judge..... just flat out OP..... or Skill and luck?

Ok, I shan't lie...I watched the video and read the first 2 and the last page of comments and didn't see what I immediately thought of...

I know it's just a game, it's fiction...hell I love the books, but think realistically. Imagine an APC or similarly, lightly armored vehicle shooting 12 machine guns, just for sh*t sake 50 cal, at an M1A2 abrams. Those shells will flatten against that armor, hell RPG's bounce off. That machine gun boat is vaporized in seconds. Maybe...just maybe shooting the A2 in the *** immobilizes it as the enemy scored a lucky shot into the weakest point of the deadliest tank on earth. My point...several of those kills came via stripping armor and then shredding internals. Please show me a video of machine guns penetrating armor and killing a battle tank. Even the thinnest armor of a tank is going to repel any shell not deemed anti-armor.

My point...the Piranha shouldn't have been able to shoot through the armor, no matter how thin, with just machine guns.

Discuss.

[dario03]

IVeoRR, on 22 March 2018 - 07:48 PM, said:

Ok, I shan't lie...I watched the video and read the first 2 and the last page of comments and didn't see what I immediately thought of...

I know it's just a game, it's fiction...hell I love the books, but think realistically. Imagine an APC or similarly, lightly armored vehicle shooting 12 machine guns, just for sh*t sake 50 cal, at an M1A2 abrams. Those shells will flatten against that armor, hell RPG's bounce off. That machine gun boat is vaporized in seconds. Maybe...just maybe shooting the A2 in the *** immobilizes it as the enemy scored a lucky shot into the weakest point of the deadliest tank on earth. My point...several of those kills came via stripping armor and then shredding internals. Please show me a video of machine guns penetrating armor and killing a battle tank. Even the thinnest armor of a tank is going to repel any shell not deemed anti-armor.

My point...the Piranha shouldn't have been able to shoot through the armor, no matter how thin, with just machine guns.

Discuss.

This isn't real life.
Not much to discuss.

[Nightbird]

IMO PGI should

1. create dual/triple/quad machine guns which take up 2/3/4 slots and are 2x/3x/4x the tonnage of current machine guns. Now, every light can 'boat' them.

2. Then, cut crit damage from MG by 50% or 75%.

3. Problem solved.

If MG is nerfed without letting other lights boat more of them, they'll become utterly useless.

[S1C4R10]

dario03, on 22 March 2018 - 07:52 PM, said:

This isn't real life.
Not much to discuss.

Wow, don't hurt your brain. Think realistically, as far as armor vs. ballistics...are you capable? Add something constructive to the conversation.

[Nightbird]

IVeoRR, on 22 March 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

Wow, don't hurt your brain. Think realistically, as far as armor vs. ballistics...are you capable? Add something constructive to the conversation.

Nightbird, on 22 March 2018 - 05:52 AM, said:

The 'Machine gun' in mechwarrior is the same weight as the nose gun on the A-10 Tank Killer.




https://en.wikipedia...i/GAU-8_Avenger

[S1C4R10]

Nightbird, on 22 March 2018 - 08:00 PM, said:

LOL, sh*t. I love the A-10, wasn't even thinking theat large, but I stand corrected.

[dario03]

Nightbird, on 22 March 2018 - 07:58 PM, said:

IMO PGI should

1. create dual/triple/quad machine guns which take up 2/3/4 slots and are 2x/3x/4x the tonnage of current machine guns. Now, every light can 'boat' them.

2. Then, cut crit damage from MG by 50% or 75%.

3. Problem solved.

If MG is nerfed without letting other lights boat more of them, they'll become utterly useless.

Isn't that what http://www.sarna.net...chine_Gun_Array are for?
But for the Pir-1 the problem is already solved. The mech is a glass canon, it has speed and power, but lacks range and armor. Just need buffs for other lights.

IVeoRR, on 22 March 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

Wow, don't hurt your brain. Think realistically, as far as armor vs. ballistics...are you capable? Add something constructive to the conversation.

I did, by keeping the conversation on track. This is a discussion about mech balance, not real life vs this game. Add something to the actual conversation.

Edited by dario03, 22 March 2018 - 08:06 PM.

[Nightbird]

dario03, on 22 March 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

Isn't that what http://www.sarna.net...chine_Gun_Array are for?
But for the Pir-1 the problem is already solved. The mech is a glass canon, it has speed and power, but lacks range and armor. Just need buffs for other lights.

With the instant perfect convergence in MWO, there is no point to having a .5ton 1slot equipment that allows your MGs to hit the same spot.

I think that's what it's supposed to do, any experts?

It's not an item that lets you equip more machine guns, since in BT there is no weapon hardpoints, you can mount any weapons you have slots and tonnage for on any mech (as long as tech is compatible).

[Xiphias]

Davegt27, on 22 March 2018 - 07:21 PM, said:

Its not my place to say a Mech is OP or not
I play the game I am given and never once have I said a Mech is OP

I make statements and observations

I agree on this point at least.

Quote

like I hardly ever shoot Mechs in the back when I am in a light

Then you aren't playing lights properly, simple as that.

Quote

making a Mechs so small that no one can see or hit is another example of death from a thousand cuts or you might say death from a thousand crazy game mechanics

This isn't an issue unless your aim is bad. If anything the rest of the lights should be shrunk to make them harder to hit. They used to be smaller and they were more balanced when they were. Rescale killed a lot of fun lights. Hitting the Pir-1 isn't the problem, if you can't either improve your aim or utilize streaks, the hard counter for lights that PGI has in the game. The concern with the Pir-1 is the fact that it can boat 12 MGs and that MGs have a high crit rate.

Quote

bottom line its PGI's game that's obvious what they want
I think you even get a extra reward for shooting people in the back

There is no extra reward for shooting people in the back other than getting more kills/component destruction. Going through the front actually gives you more damage so if you can kill them it pays better. There is a flanking bonus, but that's just for if you shoot a mech without being targeted or something.

[kuma8877]

IVeoRR, on 22 March 2018 - 07:48 PM, said:

Ok, I shan't lie...I watched the video and read the first 2 and the last page of comments and didn't see what I immediately thought of...

I know it's just a game, it's fiction...hell I love the books, but think realistically. Imagine an APC or similarly, lightly armored vehicle shooting 12 machine guns, just for sh*t sake 50 cal, at an M1A2 abrams. Those shells will flatten against that armor, hell RPG's bounce off. That machine gun boat is vaporized in seconds. Maybe...just maybe shooting the A2 in the *** immobilizes it as the enemy scored a lucky shot into the weakest point of the deadliest tank on earth. My point...several of those kills came via stripping armor and then shredding internals. Please show me a video of machine guns penetrating armor and killing a battle tank. Even the thinnest armor of a tank is going to repel any shell not deemed anti-armor.

My point...the Piranha shouldn't have been able to shoot through the armor, no matter how thin, with just machine guns.

Discuss.

Accept in the case of BT and MW, mech mounted MG's (vs crew served or infantry carried) are of such caliber as to be able to damage other mechs. Which, in real world terms, would move you a class up and into the range of 20mm and such for anti armor. I guarantee you those rounds aren't flattening on impact and do a heck of a lot more than give the pilot and crew tinnitus.

The Phalanx is a pretty darn compact weapon system, considering it's capabilities, and would probably be just about the right size for a mech to take on another mech with.

Edited by kuma8877, 22 March 2018 - 08:29 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

IVeoRR, on 22 March 2018 - 07:48 PM, said:

My point...the Piranha shouldn't have been able to shoot through the armor, no matter how thin, with just machine guns.

Discuss.

Battlemech armor is ablative, and most certainly vulnerable to being dakka'd. Part of the drawback of being able to absorb things like lasers, particle beams, and hypersonic gauss rounds that your modern tank would end up penetrated from end to end on.

Heck, a platoon of 28 men armed with assault rifles will deal about 0.7 DPS to armor in Battletech.

[Alexander of Macedon]

IVeoRR, on 22 March 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

Wow, don't hurt your brain. Think realistically, as far as armor vs. ballistics...are you capable? Add something constructive to the conversation.

BTech MGs aren't .50-cals. They weigh half a ton, and canonically damage 'mech armor. As someone else pointed out, the GAU-8 weighs ~620lbs. 1t of MG ammo is 2000rd in a bin. Round a .50 BMG to ~4oz. 2000rd of .50 BMG (sans bin) would be ~500lbs, give or take.

"Realistically" in our space '80s verse, a "MG" in the sense of weapons carried by 'mechs more closely maps to a contemporary 20-50mm autocannon than an infantry weapon. Which is also entirely in keeping with the TT bonus against the PBI, heh.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 22 March 2018 - 09:06 PM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Darian DelFord, on 22 March 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

you know... I did not even remember dropping the arty but I see what you mean now. Once again... all people see is the end number with absolutely no way of knowing how that number came to be, but still come to the forums and scream NERF!!.

Part of the reason I created this thread as well as posted the video. I tire of people saying X mech scored this much damage and needs to be nerfed because my mech is suppose to be bigger and better than yours.

If some folks had their way the Light would be removed from the game. THe fact of the matter is I like the knife fighting style the piranha and locust allow. I used to use a Jenner D for that until the damn rescale made it the size of a tank and handle like one.

Continue on.......

Tbh I doubt most people watched the entire match in detail. I really wanted to see what was going on, and as a strike connoisseur, I couldn't help but to notice that beautifully placed artillery. Bravo for that.

[dario03]

LT. HARDCASE, on 22 March 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

Tbh I doubt most people watched the entire match in detail. I really wanted to see what was going on, and as a strike connoisseur, I couldn't help but to notice that beautifully placed artillery. Bravo for that.

Probably. Don't think many read the comments either since a couple of early posts explained how it wasn't OP and one on the first page did call out the strike, plus again on later pages.

[Curccu]

IVeoRR, on 22 March 2018 - 07:48 PM, said:

Spoiler

<br></p><p>Ok, I shan't lie...I watched the video and read the first 2 and the last page of comments and didn't see what I immediately thought of...</p><p><br></p><p>I know it's just a game, it's fiction...hell I love the books, but think realistically. Imagine an APC or similarly, lightly armored vehicle shooting 12 machine guns, just for sh*t sake 50 cal, at an M1A2 abrams. Those shells will flatten against that armor, hell RPG's bounce off. That machine gun boat is vaporized in seconds. Maybe...just maybe shooting the A2 in the *** immobilizes it as the enemy scored a lucky shot into the weakest point of the deadliest tank on earth. My point...several of those kills came via stripping armor and then shredding internals. Please show me a video of machine guns penetrating armor and killing a battle tank. Even the thinnest armor of a tank is going to repel any shell not deemed anti-armor.</p><p><br></p><p>My point...the Piranha shouldn't have been able to shoot through the armor, no matter how thin, with just machine guns.</p><p>

Discuss.

Nothing to discuss.
You are talking about real life and how armor works in real life vs how it works in BT.
can you show me video of something shooting tank so much that it loses all of it's armor and it would still function 100% just doesn't have armor anymore.

PS. https://en.wikipedia...ld_War_I#Mark_I vs .50 cal armor piercing ammo, I'd say mark I will be cheese.

[PocketYoda]

Curccu, on 22 March 2018 - 01:37 AM, said:

Then let's see how long it takes a dual gauss Direwolf to kill a Piranha ? If it's on it's back - split second. How is that ok?

I don't think i've ever seen a piranhas back, honestly if a dire wolf back kills a piranha, thats some serious freakin skill man, hitting it at those speeds he must have superman vision..