333 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

FupDup, on 05 April 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

All modules required C-Bills and XP, and since those resources can be gathered infinitely for no real money it's not exactly some kind of steep opportunity cost. It's just an inconvenience, and only a one-time inconvenience if you did the smart thing and swapped modules between your mechs instead of buying a new one for every variant.

Except for the constant whine of those claiming it was a barrier and detriment to the NPE.

And that 'one time' expense may have been for the modules you swapped between 'mechs but the ability to add additional equipment slots had to be earned per 'mech.

Quote

Of all the modules, the only mech module that had similar effectiveness as Seismic Wallhack was Radar Derp. Since every mech had two mech module slots when mastered you didn't even have to choose between those two (take both all day every day). Every other choice was clearly inferior, other than maybe Target Decay on an LRM boat.

Wow... "wallhack"... Bitter, just bitter.

Y'know EVERY 'mech was supposed to be equipped with MAD, so, y'know... Anyway it's laughable light pilots are SO bitter about something that made their preferred play style slightly more difficult, and decry every attempt at toning something down that is CLEARLY unreasonable in performance.

Tell you what, you can have seismic removed from the game if I can have gauss charge eliminated from it as well.

[Krivvan]

Nema Nabojiv, on 05 April 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

Like what? They're not fast enough to do piranha things and dont have enough range to do poking like cheetas. And lights trading damage in the main line is more of a waste than chasing lights. Never hold my shots if I see them doing it.

Crossfire shots. Actual flanking (as opposed to what many people think is flanking).

[Dimento Graven]

roekenny, on 05 April 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

...

Forgot the part where that M1 has had all is armor blown to kingdom come and all it's delicate and fragile hydraulics and electronics on clear display.

...

Well hey, if that VW (or mini-cooper) blew away all the rear armor off that M1 with 9mm, near instantly and by itself, then yeah, I guess it would make sense.

Oh wait, that's not how it happened is it?

Mystere, on 05 April 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

Considering the advances made with CPUs, GPUs, and game engines over the last two decades or so, it's not entirely unrealistic to expect a modern-day Mechwarrior game to have more innovative features that previous ones.

Innovative features that would bring more of the lore of the BattleTech IP to fruition, making it available to the players to experience...

Agreed, it shouldn't be unreasonable.

[Nightbird]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 11:09 AM, said:

Well hey, if that VW (or mini-cooper) blew away all the rear armor off that M1 with 9mm, near instantly and by itself, then yeah, I guess it would make sense.

Oh wait, that's not how it happened is it?

Innovative features that would bring more of the lore of the BattleTech IP to fruition, making it available to the players to experience...

Agreed, it shouldn't be unreasonable.

My mini-cooper has a 30mm, what ****** VW only has a 9mm?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

Except for the constant whine of those claiming it was a barrier and detriment to the NPE.

And that 'one time' expense may have been for the modules you swapped between 'mechs but the ability to add additional equipment slots had to be earned per 'mech.

Wow... "wallhack"... Bitter, just bitter.

Y'know EVERY 'mech was supposed to be equipped with MAD, so, y'know... Anyway it's laughable light pilots are SO bitter about something that made their preferred play style slightly more difficult, and decry every attempt at toning something down that is CLEARLY unreasonable in performance.

Tell you what, you can have seismic removed from the game if I can have gauss charge eliminated from it as well.

Seismic isn't for defending against lights. Its for checking around a corner to know if you will get BLASTED when you turn it or to prepare for ambushes in close ranged mechs. If you're using seismic to detect lights then you're already too late by the time it detects one.

Detecting lights is sorta like crossing a street but with an extra step: you look both ways, then you check behind yourself, then you continue on. Basically just look around every once in awhile, check the minimap for anyone who is taking damage or calling for help, look in obvious flank spots, etc. This way you detect the lights long before they are in range of you and you can likely just blast them to bits with your UAC5s 500m out.

[Dimento Graven]

Darian DelFord, on 05 April 2018 - 10:42 AM, said:

Sheesh, the amount of assaults and heavies that want to make it even easier to kill a light over how easy it is now...... rear facing weapons..... more armor..... more structure....... greater turning arcs....... more speed...... The last thing we need are assaults that can face their rear arc in less than 2 seconds. Most can still see their 6 quicker than they should be able to.

The reason turning speed was depicted as slow as it was, WAS PRECISELY BECAUSE of the lore of rear firing weapons, 360 degree views, and common sensor packages such as magnetic anomoly detection.

So yeah, if we're missing the compensating portion of the lore that prevented near instantaneous death of assaults being inflicted by lights as common as it is now, then we need to increase something else to adjust other things to bring it to a reasonable level.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Krivvan, on 05 April 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

Crossfire shots. Actual flanking (as opposed to what many people think is flanking).

I strongly suspect that's exactly what has happened in OP's match. All friendly lights went for whatever flanking, mediums followed, and then a stray piranha came about and killed assaults because noone could be bothered to counter him.

[Dimento Graven]

Krivvan, on 05 April 2018 - 11:02 AM, said:

...

Then how do all the good assault players do it?

I dunno, according to some of the arrogant light pilots here, there are no "good" assault players.

I dunno ANY assault player that can see behind him and through walls and terrain 100% of the time, and move at medium and light 'mech speeds (to always keep up with their own teams light and mediums) without hacks.

Show me an assault player that's NEVER been nearly instagibbed by a light and you'll probably be showing me an assault pilot who doesn't play very much, or at least play assaults very often...

[Throe]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

I'm simply stating that in tabletop, and lore in general, MGs are pretty much the best weapon from a DPS/Ton standpoint, and that MG boating lights in MWO *should* be effective.

I wouldn't argue with the assertion that MG boating lights in MWO should be effective. It's pretty much always been the case that boating things in the various real time MW games has been effective. So much so that we have hardpoint limitations and ghost heat to stop people from doing it. I'm a proponent of the idea that hard point limitations and ghost heat should be removed entirely in favor of potentially better solutions, but the fact is, hard point limitations are part of what sells 'Mechs, so they're not going anywhere unless MWO finds a way to ditch the Free to Play model(which won't happen either).

I don't even like talking about TableTop, to be honest(I was obviously wrong about the AC/20 functionality above), because it really shouldn't have any bearing on what works in MWO, and that's what I was trying to argue. This is a real time game, with live pilots. Very little in MWO is determined by RNG, while nearly everything in TableTop is determined by RNG. They're completely and utterly different games, that happen to be based around the same fiction.

[FupDup]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

I'm simply stating that in tabletop, and lore in general, MGs are pretty much the best weapon from a DPS/Ton standpoint, and that MG boating lights in MWO *should* be effective.

To nitpick, the actual best DPS/ton in TT is the Heavy Small Laser at 12 DPT.

[roekenny]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 11:09 AM, said:

Well hey, if that VW (or mini-cooper) blew away all the rear armor off that M1 with 9mm, near instantly and by itself, then yeah, I guess it would make sense.

Oh wait, that's not how it happened is it?

Your right it's not they come in AFTER the armor has been blow away to kill secure or are you telling me mg's have gained the ability to do damage to armor what is worth a dam? If have a token amount of back armor yes they will eat it but otherwise they just wait till soften up or easy prey that have time to screw you over.

Krivvan, on 05 April 2018 - 11:02 AM, said:

You're assuming it has higher than average scores.

Some other people's results suggest that the Piranha actually has average scores. It just has more variance with higher highs and lower lows.
Then how do all the good assault players do it?

https://clips.twitch...eCattleOSkomodo

Like so

[Krivvan]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

Show me an assault player that's NEVER been nearly instagibbed by a light and you'll probably be showing me an assault pilot who doesn't play very much, or at least play assaults very often...

Never is a pretty high bar but I've rarely seen Bowser, Twinky, or Proton get instagibbed in the back in an Assault.

[Dimento Graven]

roekenny, on 05 April 2018 - 11:28 AM, said:

Your right it's not they come in AFTER the armor has been blow away to kill secure or are you telling me mg's have gained the ability to do damage to armor what is worth a dam? If have a token amount of back armor yes they will eat it but otherwise they just wait till soften up or easy prey that have time to screw you over.

It's pretty goddamned fast. In a lot of 'mechs damage to the rear is nearly silent, especially if you're firing your own weapons or happen to be getting hit by other enemies on your front armor.

A crap ton of MG's and lasers eats through rear armor and components VERY fast because it's rare for anyone to not front load their armor, especially assaults who are supposed to be in FRONT sharing their armor fighting multiple enemies. Anyone keeping any significant amount of rear armor loaded is typically considered a 'bad pilot'. HELL, I've even heard LIGHT pilots deride enemies they've found running the stock amount of rear armor (causing them to have to work harder for the kill) for being bad pilots and having too much armor in the rear.

I also like how it took 3 alphas of QUAD LB-X 10 AC's to bring the Piranha down.

Edit: Oh and note, the Piranha did it wrong, he came in from the FRONT...

Another edit: Oh yeah, and when the Piranha died, there were THREE 'mechs shooting at it, hitting it.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 05 April 2018 - 11:47 AM.

[K O Z A K]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

I dunno, according to some of the arrogant light pilots here, there are no "good" assault players.

I dunno ANY assault player that can see behind him and through walls and terrain 100% of the time, and move at medium and light 'mech speeds (to always keep up with their own teams light and mediums) without hacks.

Show me an assault player that's NEVER been nearly instagibbed by a light and you'll probably be showing me an assault pilot who doesn't play very much, or at least play assaults very often...

by that logic, can you show us a light pilot that's never been ("nearly") one shotted by assaults? I'm sure even top end light pilots in this thread like Krivvan, Xiph and Nightbird have had their share of those

[Dimento Graven]

Hazeclaw, on 05 April 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

by that logic, can you show us a light pilot that's never been ("nearly") one shotted by assaults? I'm sure even top end light pilots in this thread like Krivvan, Xiph and Nightbird have had their share of those

How many assaults can instantaneously whip 180 degrees and shoot any 'mech at any range?

It'll be that many...

[Nightbird]

Hazeclaw, on 05 April 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

by that logic, can you show us a light pilot that's never been ("nearly") one shotted by assaults? I'm sure even top end light pilots in this thread like Krivvan, Xiph and Nightbird have had their share of those

Plenty, I've learned through many failed attempts there is no safe assault to back core. I will shadow an assault until he reaches a place I can break away if he twists correctly so I'm less likely to die when I fail.

That been said, I'm not a light-only pilot, I love assaults, just not in solo queue quick play.

[K O Z A K]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

How many assaults can instantaneously whip 180 degrees and shoot any 'mech at any range?

It'll be that many...

lol, what?

ok lets play: how many lights can shoot any mech at any range?

[Mystere]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

Its unrealistic when its a free to play to be fair.

What does "fair" and "free to play" have to do with modern-day features?

[Mystere]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

I'm simply stating that in tabletop, and lore in general, MGs are pretty much the best weapon from a DPS/Ton standpoint, and that MG boating lights in MWO *should* be effective.

The problem, it seems, is that a significant chunk of MWO's player base do not want lights to be effective at all. They just want them to be mere cannon fodder used to pad other people's stats. <smh>

[roekenny]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

I dunno, according to some of the arrogant light pilots here, there are no "good" assault players.

Show me an assault player that's NEVER been nearly instagibbed by a light and you'll probably be showing me an assault pilot who doesn't play very much, or at least play assaults very often...

Only if you show me a any player what has never been instagibbed by every weight class in every weight class they main in their career. Or do you think assaults are special?

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

It's pretty goddamned fast. In a lot of 'mechs damage to the rear is nearly silent, especially if you're firing your own weapons or happen to be getting hit by other enemies on your front armor.

A crap ton of MG's and lasers eats through rear armor and components VERY fast because it's rare for anyone to not front load their armor, especially assaults who are supposed to be in FRONT sharing their armor fighting multiple enemies.

-snip-

I also like how it took 3 alphas of QUAD LB-X 10 AC's to bring the Piranha down.

So by that reasoning no light should have more than 4 hard points as it runs the risk of them been able to do some serious damage should they use their speed and maneuverability to flank a enemy and hit a well know vulnerability?

As for clip
I think he missed one alpha and fish was fresh, also I believe it was called out as he was expecting him and the fish had no clue was about to walk into a wall of pain (happens to the best of us.)

Edited by roekenny, 05 April 2018 - 11:55 AM.